Dem cyclists all break de lights Joe!

Chuchote

Hungrycol wrote: »

Here's another (I'm going to have to stop reading this rag)

http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/cyclists-like-all-road-users-must-be-mindful-of-others-35121641.html

The headline in this case lends you to believe that it's a pro-cyclist stance but alas no. Another space filler piece about cycling idiots.

We need a megathread on this topic.

This is a "Quick, we have a hole in the page where the story didn't come in - write something, anything!" piece.

07Lapierre

Hungrycol wrote: »

Here's another (I'm going to have to stop reading this rag)

http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/cyclists-like-all-road-users-must-be-mindful-of-others-35121641.html

The headline in this case lends you to believe that it's a pro-cyclist stance but alas no. Another space filler piece about cycling idiots.

We need a megathread on this topic.

eh...I agree with him..I see cyclists doing this all the time..
If you have to twist the bars of your bike to pass by, the gap is too small!

Chips Lovell

Same here. Can't see anything wrong with that piece. Highlights one of the most dangerous things you can do on a bike.

robyntmorton

I also agree with the Indo piece.

While we are all cyclists here, and thus inherently pro cyclist, the cyclist mentioned in the piece was being an idiot.

I am not wishing for any cyclist (idiot or not) to be hurt, but I do occasionally think that they should have the s*ite scared out of them just enough to make them think about what the safe course of action is.

Hungrycol

07Lapierre wrote: »

eh...I agree with him..I see cyclists doing this all the time..
If you have to twist the bars of your bike to pass by, the gap is too small!

This sentence is the hole in the story. If you turn your handlebars sideways your wheel turns correspondingly thereby mitigating any extra narrowness in getting the bike through.

Moflojo

robyntmorton wrote: »

I am not wishing for any cyclist (idiot or not) to be hurt, but I do occasionally think that they should have the s*ite scared out of them just enough to make them think about what the safe course of action is.

Speaking on behalf of idiots, do we not deserve to be protected from ourselves? If the environment presented to us is inherently dangerous, but we're too dumb to perceive the danger, should we not be provided with a safer environment?

#allocate4idiots

Chips Lovell

The road is a safe environment as long you don't overtake a vehicle unless it is safe to do so.

Moflojo

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

The road is a safe environment as long you don't overtake a vehicle unless it is safe to do so.

The road is a safe environment as long as you're the bigger fish.

Chips Lovell

I have no words...

robyntmorton

Moflojo wrote: »

Speaking on behalf of idiots, do we not deserve to be protected from ourselves? If the environment presented to us is inherently dangerous, but we're too dumb to perceive the danger, should we not be provided with a safer environment?

#allocate4idiots

If I was to give you a properly safe environment I would need to put you in a small padded room.

That also means that I would need to feed you and clean up after you, and I already have a cat and dog to do that for, sorry.

(Now, enough thread derailing, lets get back on topic)

Unfortunately, there will always be someone who is willing to do something stupid, either as they don't see the danger, or don't care about it. In the case of the one in the article linked, would it come under "cycling without due care", and would a garda be willing to pull them up and enforce it? Is being fined for putting yourself in danger permissible?

Moflojo

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

The road is a safe environment as long you don't overtake a vehicle unless it is safe to do so.

The fact that a bus and a cyclist are competing for the same space on the road makes the environment inherently dangerous and undermines your statement. Whether it's a cyclist trying to squeeze inside a bus, or a bus bullying its way ahead of a cyclist (as happened to me when crossing O'Connell bridge last week) the point I'm making is that the two modes should not be sharing the same space.

Accidents happen. Everyone makes errors of judgement. If you put motorised vehicles and cyclists in the same space, then cyclists are going to be disproportionately affected by any accident. The only way to effectively reduce the risk to cyclists is to provide adequate segregated space for them, just like we do for pedestrians.

Chips Lovell

You've a fundamental misunderstanding of how roads work. Nobody has an entitlement to overtake traffic in front of them regardless of the circumstances. If there is no way of overtaking safely, you stay behind the vehicle in front of you until there is one.

Zillah

The Indo piece is reasonable (didn't think I'd ever say that), except for this line:

Imagine what that poor bus driver would have suffered if he, unwittingly and innocently, had moved off?

You're required in any vehicle to check your side mirrors before pulling off. He shouldn't have to wait for some idiot that's wedged himself between the bus and the fence before he gets going, but once said idiot is there you're obliged to wait for him to get out of the way. It's the same with a pedestrian stepping out in front of you. You've right of way but you're still obliged to hit the brakes.

I do think it's a fair point that the road should never have been allowed to descend into such a state in the first place, but that does not justify taking reckless actions. I cycle around College Green a lot, and I've frequently been stuck behind a bus, and eyed the gap and thought "Nope, far too narrow, suicide going in there".

07Lapierre

Hungrycol wrote: »

This sentence is the hole in the story. If you turn your handlebars sideways your wheel turns correspondingly thereby mitigating any extra narrowness in getting the bike through.

your assuming the cyclist is cycling? I've seen plenty of cyclists "Scoote" with their left foot on the pavement and then lift the front wheel so they can turn the bars to squeeze past a passenger side door mirror.

Moflojo

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

You've a fundamental misunderstanding of how roads work. Nobody has an entitlement to overtake traffic in front of them regardless of the circumstances. If there is no way of overtaking safely, you stay behind the vehicle in front of you until there is one.

Put it to you this way: If the road was a workplace, its users were employees, and it was subject to the rigours of workplace Health & Safety inspections, would it pass an assessment? Are the hazards & risks acceptable? It appears to be your position that they are, and that it is the employees (road users) who are at fault and that each of the multiple violators should be individually dealt with and reprimanded because they (the road users) have created the unsafe environment.

I put it to you that if the road was a workplace, and was inspected by an occupational Health & Safety authority, it would be shut down immediately.

Chips Lovell

I've come across some fanatical health & safety inspectors in my time, but none that bad.

Roadhawk

Moflojo wrote: »

Put it to you this way: If the road was a workplace, its users were employees, and it was subject to the rigours of workplace Health & Safety inspections, would it pass an assessment? Are the hazards & risks acceptable? It appears to be your position that they are, and that it is the employees (road users) who are at fault and that each of the multiple violators should be individually dealt with and reprimanded because they (the road users) have created the unsafe environment.

I put it to you that if the road was a workplace, and was inspected by an occupational Health & Safety authority, it would be shut down immediately.

Good thing its not being inspected by an occupational Health & Safety authority

NiallBoo

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I have no words...

Finally!
Someone I can beat in scrabble.

eeguy

NiallBoo wrote: »

Finally!
Someone I can beat in scramble.

I think you'd still lose if your spelling is that bad :D

EDIT: I'm so happy I quoted you before you realised your mistake :pac:

jon1981

Another rant (commute home experience) -

*The "cover your ass" indicator guy*

Changes lanes sharply without indicating ... woops better put on my indicator post indication that I was changing lane... good it's on now ...phew... I'm covered ... checks to see if he killed the cyclist in the lane

Almost annoying as my earlier rant

*The slow creeper guy * (cyclist)

Veloce150

Mofoojo wrote:

Put it to you this way: If the road was a workplace, its users were employees, and it was subject to the rigours of workplace Health & Safety inspections, would it pass an assessment

For van and truck drivers, the road is a workplace.

It should be quite feasible to hold their employers liable for breaches of the RoTR as being breaches of the H&S regulations.

No employee should be under such pressure to meet targets or schedules thae he or she puts the safety of others at risk.

Chuchote

Veloce150 wrote: »

For van and truck drivers, the road is a workplace.

It should be quite feasible to hold their employers liable for breaches of the RoTR as being breaches of the H&S regulations.

No employee should be under such pressure to meet targets or schedules thae he or she puts the safety of others at risk.

No employee should be under pressure, and no self-employed person should be either - or should be arrogant, like the little prat in a white van that carved me up as I tried to change lanes to turn from New Bride Street into Kevin Street yesterday. I soon caught up with the van stuck in traffic, and drew up and made winding-down motions at his window to talk to him.

He was a young fellow with Fonz-styled hair and dark glasses (at five to six in the evening on a darkening evening). He first ignored me, then made a dismissive gesture like a mediaeval bishop being offered an insufficiently glamorous stuffed swan at his table. I cupped my hands on his window and roared into them "You gave me a scare with your discourteous driving!" and cycled on, leaving him in his gridlock. No markings on the van.

boardbeer

Chuchote wrote: »

... made a dismissive gesture like a mediaeval bishop being offered an insufficiently glamorous stuffed swan at his table

I nominate this for an award for the most evocative simile used in a traffic-light thread.

Hungrycol

Chuchote wrote: »

"You gave me a scare with your discourteous driving!"

That's the poshest angriest shout I think I've ever heard.

average_runner

jon1981 wrote: »

Another rant (commute home experience) -

*The "cover your ass" indicator guy*

Changes lanes sharply without indicating ... woops better put on my indicator post indication that I was changing lane... good it's on now ...phew... I'm covered ... checks to see if he killed the cyclist in the lane

Almost annoying as my earlier rant

*The slow creeper guy * (cyclist)

Jaysus the same can be said for cyclists and their hand signals. Oh wait i turn this corner but i won't let anyone around me know I will do it

jon1981

average_runner wrote: »

Jaysus the same can be said for cyclists and their hand signals. Oh wait i turn this corner but i won't let anyone around me know I will do it

Oi! I already criticised cyclists!

CramCycle

average_runner wrote: »

Jaysus the same can be said for cyclists and their hand signals. Oh wait i turn this corner but i won't let anyone around me know I will do it

A cyclists road position can also be used as an indicator for where they plan to move for safety reasons (two hands on the bars). It is written up in the statute books so will try and dig it up later.

Chuchote

average_runner wrote: »

Jaysus the same can be said for cyclists and their hand signals. Oh wait i turn this corner but i won't let anyone around me know I will do it

So true - especially as drivers don't understand cyclists' legal, standard signals. The other day, cycling along the narrow, fast, traffic-heavy Beaver Row I gave the standard signal for "I am preparing to stop" - arm outstretched, waving vertically up and down. http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/traffic-lights.html

A driver in a monster jeepy-type thing kindly stopped 10 metres back. He or she obviously thought I was signalling wildly that I intended to go right (which I did, but after getting off the bike and by wheeling it across!)

I stopped, got off and waved thanks, but s/he vrooomed off, obvious thinking "What an idiot!"

tomasrojo

Chuchote wrote: »

So true - especially as drivers don't understand cyclists' legal, standard signals. The other day, cycling along the narrow, fast, traffic-heavy Beaver Row I gave the standard signal for "I am preparing to stop"

Yeah, a few years ago I did that signal and the lady in the car behind got very shirty; the nerve of me telling HER to slow down!! I said she misunderstood me and she could look up the hand signal in the Rules of the Road. She then gave me a hand signal not contained in the Rules of the Road and drove off.

ted1

average_runner wrote: »

Jaysus the same can be said for cyclists and their hand signals. Oh wait i turn this corner but i won't let anyone around me know I will do it

Speed wobbles +hand signals = disaster.