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Dem cyclists all break de lights Joe!

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    #2
    Roadhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    "GARDAÍ HAVE CAUGHT 24 times more motorists than cyclists breaking red lights so far this year in Dublin."...
    now we need to ask if there are 24 times more cars than cyclists.


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    #3
    Dermot Illogical
    Registered Users Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Dermot Illogical


    The answer to that is in the article. Go past the headline ftw.


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    #4
    Roadhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    Dermot Illogical wrote: »
    The answer to that is in the article. Go past the headline ftw.

    I did literal only read the first line haha


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    #5
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,065 ✭✭✭buffalo


    I was sitting in traffic in Newbridge yesterday afternoon, watching the oncoming traffic as we crawled along. Definitely over 50% on the phone, including the driver of a double decker bus.

    </anecdotal evidence>


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    #6
    the.red.baron
    Registered Users Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭the.red.baron


    I'd say both figures show how much regard the ngardíí have for the offence so are meaningless


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    #7
    Roadhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    buffalo wrote: »
    I was sitting in traffic in Newbridge yesterday afternoon, watching the oncoming traffic as we crawled along. Definitely over 50% on the phone, including the driver of a double decker bus.

    </anecdotal evidence>

    is this about red lights or mobile phones?


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    #8
    Hunterbiker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭Hunterbiker


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    is this about red lights or mobile phones?

    I'd say it should be about road user behaviour...


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    #9
    Moflojo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭Moflojo


    TheJournal.ie has been one of the few sensible & balanced media outlets reporting on cycling issues in the recent past and should be commended for it. While most news sites ran with "Car Ban proposed on the Quays!" last week, The Journal framed the story in a positive light, focusing on how a proposed route for the Liffey cycleway had been agreed.

    Good on them.


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    #10
    mcginty28
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭mcginty28


    in fairness everyone is at it but I believe the cyclist figures to be low due to to poor detection by gardai. How often do you see gardai manning a junction and waiting for road users to break lights? A cyclist does not have a reg plate so if picked up on camera running a red light there is no way to prosecute hence the low figures.


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    #11
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    ...Pedestrians were involved in 42% of all fatal collisions in the Dublin metropolitan region between 2013 and 2016 to date...

    Maybe they should make pedestrians wear hiz viz, helmets and a registration plate also.


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    #12
    Moflojo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭Moflojo


    beauf wrote: »
    Maybe they should make pedestrians wear hiz viz, helmets and a registration plate also.

    They should have insurance. If one of them pet oestrogens knocks me off my bike and damages it who's going to pick up the bill? Yours trudi, dats who.


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    #13
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    mcginty28 wrote: »
    in fairness everyone is at it but I believe the cyclist figures to be low due to to poor detection by gardai. How often do you see gardai manning a junction and waiting for road users to break lights? A cyclist does not have a reg plate so if picked up on camera running a red light there is no way to prosecute hence the low figures.

    How many cameras are there picking up cars running red lights and how many prosecutions have resulted?


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    #14
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    mcginty28 wrote: »
    in fairness everyone is at it but I believe the cyclist figures to be low due to to poor detection by gardai. How often do you see gardai manning a junction and waiting for road users to break lights?
    that goes for everyone, so it's not a way of disputing the figures.
    mcginty28 wrote: »
    A cyclist does not have a reg plate so if picked up on camera running a red light there is no way to prosecute hence the low figures.
    It will let controllers see if it's happened and can alert nearby gardai. It also means there's hard evidence when they go to prosecute.

    I also like how your comment suggest that there's more than a couple of red-light cameras, t'would be a fine thing.

    Anyway, something doesn't have to work for everything to be worthwhile, if it helps for a large number of cases then it's worth it.


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    #15
    Veloce150
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Veloce150


    mcginty28 wrote:
    in fairness everyone is at it but I believe the cyclist figures to be low due to to poor detection by gardai. How often do you see gardai manning a junction and waiting for road users to break lights? A cyclist does not have a reg plate so if picked up on camera running a red light there is no way to prosecute hence the low figures.
    You might have a point if the report was about fienes or prosecutions. The report states that the Gardai had recorded the offences. This means that they simply counted them. No need to identify the offenders.

    Indeed, if amber light offences and failure to stop before the stop line were included the number of offenders would be even higher.

    The numbers are quite credible when you consider this report from the RSA Free Speed Survey 2103: (again, where they simply count offences but don't bring the offenders to justice)
    The proportion of cars exceeding the speed limit on urban arterial roads (in 50km/h zones) increased from 74% in 2012 to 82% in 2013


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    #16
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,064 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Moflojo wrote: »
    TheJournal.ie has been one of the few sensible & balanced media outlets reporting on cycling issues in the recent past and should be commended for it. While most news sites ran with "Car Ban proposed on the Quays!" last week, The Journal framed the story in a positive light, focusing on how a proposed route for the Liffey cycleway had been agreed.

    Good on them.

    If it's balanced it means they've stolen it from someone or somewhere else.


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    #17
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,898 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    I've been cycling around Paris for the last few days, it's absolutely hilarious coming on boards and reading the petty little complaints about cyclists in Dublin and other Irish towns. Paris has to be seen to be believed, traffic lights are just a suggestion for all parties, pedestrian, motorist, motorcyclist and cyclists, it's a total free for all, if there's a gap you go for it, that's about the only rule and tbh its an absolute breath of fresh air, everyone gets where they're going, traffic light cycles are about 50% shorter than at home and accidents are about half the Irish levels aswell. Everyone is nicer to each other on the road aswell, people give way to each other so much more and it makes everything flow so much more smoothly.


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    #18
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    Anyone who has any doubts about how many motorists break red lights, park yourself at the new Sandyford junction for a few hours (under the luas bridge).

    It's actually hilarious!

    Yep, plenty of cyclists break lights and it annoys me, but not as much as riding without lights. We can moan about this till the cows come home, but as the statistics show, cyclists breaking red lights pose very little danger to traffic or pedestrians.

    This media (newstalk) us vs them mentality has really become embedded into the mind of the Irish commuter, I parked my bike outside the Lidl in Stillorgan about 6 months ago, had to move some people in their 20s blocking the bike rack. They moved, then the ugly obnoxious one started talking about his recent trip at the weekend, he passed a group of cyclists as close as he could without hitting them, and was telling his chums how he only wished he could have clipped them.

    I was angry at that point. I wanted to ask the 2 girls he was with if he had talked about assaulting women/children/cute pets in that way, for his own enjoyment, would they find it as hilarious. I think we've crossed a very dangerous bridge of this behaviour becoming acceptable...I bet everyone on this forum has had someone tell them a story of how much they hate cyclists and they shouldn't be on the roads.


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    #19
    2RockMountain
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭2RockMountain


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    is this about red lights or mobile phones?
    Why? Does it bug you when people highlight the number of motorists who use their phones, speed, have 1 or 2 lights missing when you're trying to stir up a storm around cycling again?
    Hunterbiker wrote: »
    I'd say it should be about risky road user behaviour...

    FYP


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    #20
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    the.red.baron wrote: »
    I'd say both figures show how much regard the ngardíí have for the offence so are meaningless

    I have seen a garda waiting and pouncing on cyclists (and also on drivers) in front of Trinity day after day, and he's taking names and addresses.

    /anecdotal evidence
    mcginty28 wrote: »
    in fairness everyone is at it but I believe the cyclist figures to be low due to to poor detection by gardai. How often do you see gardai manning a junction and waiting for road users to break lights? A cyclist does not have a reg plate so if picked up on camera running a red light there is no way to prosecute hence the low figures.

    Not at all; all you have to do is have a camera at one lights and a garda at the next, with the camera transmitting pictures to the garda's phone. Then the garda can happily pick up the fish in a barrel.
    beauf wrote: »
    Maybe they should make pedestrians wear hiz viz, helmets and a registration plate also.

    Yes, and hire lots of new civil servants to administer this, and divert lots of gardaí to checking, rather than silly old crime.
    Thargor wrote: »
    I've been cycling around Paris for the last few days, it's absolutely hilarious coming on boards and reading the petty little complaints about cyclists in Dublin and other Irish towns. Paris has to be seen to be believed, traffic lights are just a suggestion for all parties, pedestrian, motorist, motorcyclist and cyclists, it's a total free for all, if there's a gap you go for it, that's about the only rule and tbh its an absolute breath of fresh air, everyone gets where they're going, traffic light cycles are about 50% shorter than at home and accidents are about half the Irish levels aswell. Everyone is nicer to each other on the road aswell, people give way to each other so much more and it makes everything flow so much more smoothly.

    Ah, but this is a reason for checking the road laws in a country when you want to cycle there. In Paris, it is perfectly legal to cycle or drive through some red lights (for instance, pedestrian lights) if it is safe to do so. It's not a free-for-all, it is the law.

    Actually, the LA Times had an editorial about changing cycle law:

    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/livable-city/la-oe-babin-bicycle-laws-20161003-snap-story.html
    Paris, for example, recently took the Idaho stop law even further, allowing cyclists to treat some red lights as yields. The law not only gives cyclists a leg up on cars, but sanctions behavior cyclists already employ to efficiently navigate the city…
    Some European countries, such as Denmark and the Netherlands, have restructured their liability laws to hold motorists responsible in most collisions with cyclists. The law places responsibility for safety on the more dangerous road user.


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    #21
    Roadhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    2RockMountain wrote: »
    Why? Does it bug you when people highlight the number of motorists who use their phones, speed, have 1 or 2 lights missing when you're trying to stir up a storm around cycling again?

    No not really. I was merely setting out to stay on topic to the OP. I know how much people hate the "whataboutery" that can fester.


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    #22
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    No not really. I was merely setting out to stay on topic to the OP. I know how much people hate the "whataboutery" that can fester.

    You want us to focus on the issues that aren't important when it comes to road safety.


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    #23
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Mobile phone use in cars isn't going to stop until a politician crashes and dies while visibly on his mobile phone, imho.


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    #24
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Until the Garda can use the money from fines in improving the service.


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    #25
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    is this about red lights or mobile phones?
    Roadhawk wrote: »
    No not really. I was merely setting out to stay on topic to the OP. I know how much people hate the "whataboutery" that can fester.

    @Roadhawk. If you're just here to wind people up, don't post.

    Thank you


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    #26
    2RockMountain
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭2RockMountain


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    No not really. I was merely setting out to stay on topic to the OP. I know how much people hate the "whataboutery" that can fester.

    I'd guess that people hate your fetish for digging at cyclists/cycling despite low risk levels more than 'whataboutery' tbh.


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    #27
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    Moflojo wrote:
    They should have insurance. If one of them pet oestrogens knocks me off my bike and damages it who's going to pick up the bill? Yours trudi, dats who.


    Oestrogens? Those f**king hormones, there're everywhere Joe knocking trudi off her bike.


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    #28
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    Thargor wrote:
    I've been cycling around Paris for the last few days, it's absolutely hilarious coming on boards and reading the petty little complaints about cyclists in Dublin and other Irish towns. Paris has to be seen to be believed, traffic lights are just a suggestion for all parties, pedestrian, motorist, motorcyclist and cyclists, it's a total free for all, if there's a gap you go for it, that's about the only rule and tbh its an absolute breath of fresh air, everyone gets where they're going, traffic light cycles are about 50% shorter than at home and accidents are about half the Irish levels aswell. Everyone is nicer to each other on the road aswell, people give way to each other so much more and it makes everything flow so much more smoothly.


    You really want to get a fright? try Rome, that said it seems to work.


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    #29
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Dermot Illogical wrote: »
    http://www.thejournal.ie/cyclists-dublin-3018953-Oct2016/


    This article is not about cyclists, its about drivers. Even if it mentions cyclists. It has no information about cyclists.


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    #30
    oflahero
    Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭oflahero


    DirkVoodoo wrote: »
    I bet everyone on this forum has had someone tell them a story of how much they hate cyclists and they shouldn't be on the roads.

    I've found it particularly Dublin-centric. Took a spin down to Athlone yesterday, and once beyond Leixlip it was all cheery waves and consideration all round.

    Once you take commuting and traffic lights out of the equation, everything calms back down.

    Still, you're right. We've got to a point where it's now actually not unthinkable that some numbnuts is going to propose a national ID/registration plate system for bikes.


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    #31
    Roadhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    beauf wrote: »
    This article is not about cyclists, its about drivers. Even if it mentions cyclists. It has no information about cyclists.

    I quite agree.

    I think its time for red light cameras. The gardai are only catching a portion of the people breaking lights so if this was automated we'd be sure to see the numbers spike until it molds driver behaviour.


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