Nice - Bastille day mod warning post 1

testaccount123 · 15-07-2016 03:52PM

Shenshen wrote: »

It does seem to be a really difficult thing to understand, never suspected that.
Let me try and explain myself better : If it is Islam, and assuming you're aware that Islam has been around for 14 centuries, why did it only turn terrorist in the last 4 decades?

In other words, why wasn't it Islam before that

Is this a joke?

Islam has been attacking and killing Europeans almost since its inception.

Shenshen · 15-07-2016 03:54PM

testaccount123 wrote: »

Is this a joke?

Islam has been attacking and killing Europeans since its inception.

Has it? How many did it kill in the 1950s? In the 1850s? In the 1750s? In the 1650s?

Bobthefireman · 15-07-2016 03:55PM

Islam (if you read the Koran literally) teaches you to kill all infidels (non-Muslims).
That is Islam.

suicide_circus · 15-07-2016 03:57PM

It maybe messed up to say this but my god did this bastard come up with an extremely easy, accessable and effective way to inflict a massive fatality count.

Shenshen · 15-07-2016 03:57PM

Bobthefireman wrote: »

Islam (if you read the Koran literally) teaches you to kill all infidels (non-Muslims).
That is Islam.

I take it you've studied the book in some detail. I wonder if you ever bothered reading the bible in as much detail?

Timberrrrrrrr · 15-07-2016 03:59PM

Bobthefireman wrote: »

Islam (if you read the Koran literally) teaches you to kill all infidels (non-Muslims).
That is Islam.

Christianity (if you read the Bible literally) tells you that you should sell your daughter if she is raped. :rolleyes:

testaccount123 · 15-07-2016 04:06PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Christianity (if you read the Bible literally) tells you that you should sell your daughter if she is raped. :rolleyes:

And? Are there christians selling their raped daughters?

15-07-2016 04:07PM

Bobthefireman wrote: »

Islam (if you read the Koran literally) teaches you to kill all infidels (non-Muslims).
That is Islam.

Stand back lads, legit scholar in our midst here.

HensVassal · 15-07-2016 04:07PM

testaccount123 wrote: »

Constant, never ending nonsensical comparisons to christianity. Christians are also scummy but they didnt murder 80 people in cold blood yesterday.

If 10% of the population of the country was catholic and 70% of the prison population was catholic that would be alarming and evidence of a serious problem.

I think you're looking for correlations to confirm your prejudice. Have you ever stopped to think that the French justice and punishment system might be skewed against Muslims? They do live in impoverished ghettoes so it's not surprising these areas are higher in crime and most likely higher in police heavy-handedness, arrest and sentencing. Much easier to look at the numbers and then just spit out a bigoted quip.

In the US, Black and Hispanics make up 60% of the prison population but only 25% of the general population. Are you saying (by your logic) that Blacks and Hispanics are the problem?

jmayo · 15-07-2016 04:09PM

Shenshen wrote: »

I don't agree that it's obfuscating the problem. It's simply looking beyond the simplistic answer to try and establish the root cause.
Terrorism has plagued humanity throughout most of its existence, it's a method of unsettling a large number of people with minimal effort. And in all honesty, it hasn't changed much in its approach throughout recent centuries, it just updated its arsenal along with military developments.
What makes it seem so much worse than anything the happened before is simply the fact that we have since built a world that makes it so much easier for anyone determined enough to do damage.
At the beginning of the 20th century, the terrorists were anarchists, nationalists and suffragettes.
In the 60s, 70s and 80s, the terrorists were far left groups such as the RAF in Germany, various religious groups, the ETA in Spain, the IRA in the UK, the PLO, etc.

And here we go folks, we have a new one.

The suffragettes are now akin to ISIS, al qaeda, boko haram or whatever other nutjob islamic terrorist organisation you chose to sling your cart to. :rolleyes:

Shenshen wrote: »

Look back over the centuries, and you'll find Catholic terrorism (Guy Faulkes), Jewish terrorism (Sicarii Zealots), and plain state terrorism (reign of terror in France).

These days, it's either completely nihilistic or Islamist attacks that we hear about in the media.
As side shows, we have Buddhists committing genocides in Myanmar, Hindu nationalist groups bombing their way through India, various (non-Islamic) groups terrorising entire countries in sub-Saharan Africa. Only these aren't big news over here for the most part.

But once again you just lump all terrorists into the one pot and appear to think they can all be treated the same or solved in some similar fashion.
BTW are the kids of Burmese immigrants joining up with these Buddhists committing genocide in Burma or are they killing people in the West in the name of Buddhists ?
Are the kids of Ugandan Christian immigrants going back to the fatherland to do a bit of genocide or just slaughtering a few in their home country ?
Are the kids of Indian Hindus going off to India to bomb their way through India ?

See a trend yet ?

Shenshen wrote: »

While I don't personally agree with any religion at all, I think to just shout and point at Islam as the root cause of these attacks is far, far too simplistic. It might make some people feel pleasantly righteously outraged, but it's not addressing any actual issues.

I am not stupid enough to think that Islam is the only religion with problems, but by feck it is the one with the biggest.
Everytime there is another outrage carried out by a muslim and in the name of islam we get the usual deflection and whataboutery about how all religions are bad.
That is what does my fecking head in.

This is a problem with a strain of islam which is bloody growing in power.
And answering that all religions are bad, have been bad at some stage or might be bad is a fooking cop out.

We always get the argument that muslims have faced discrimination and that is why the kids are turning to fundamentalism.

But then what about the Christian immigrant kids of say African and Caribbean immigrants ?
They have maybe faced with as much if not more discrimination, so why haven't they being blowing themselves up or heading off to Sub Saharan Africa to indulge in a bit of Christian on whatever genocide ?
If anything it is the fundamentalist muslims that are trying to attract these kids in order to have more willing suicide bombers.

And yes I do know of the African and Caribbean immigrants descendants who converted to islam and who were involved in attacks in Britain.

testaccount123 · 15-07-2016 04:09PM

HensVassal wrote: »

I think you're looking for correlations to confirm your prejudice. Have you ever stopped to think that the French justice and punishment system might be skewed against Muslims? They do live in impoverished ghettoes so it's not surprising these areas are higher in crime and most likely higher in police heavy-handedness, arrest and sentencing. Much easier to look at the numbers and then just spit out a bigoted quip.

Its really the French peoples fault. Muslims should be given more welfare.

RustyNut · 15-07-2016 04:11PM

Bobthefireman wrote: »

I just don't understand why they come to the Western world. It's like a nun going into a brothel. Why the **** would you bother? You don't like brothels? Don't go in there. You don't like how Western people live? Don't ****ing go there.
I'm certainly not going to move to Saudi Arabia to live.
Do they think they can convert us all or something?
I'm baffled.

Mabey because you are from somewhere like Allepo. ISIS are a few kilometres in one direction and will either force you to fight their cause or kill you if the make it as far as your home. The Syria state forced are dropping barrel bombs within earshot of your home, You might be cought in a bombing by the Russians, Americans, or British forces at any time and the only chance you have to survive is to leave. You then have to go somewhere and Europe might seem like the best option.

Timberrrrrrrr · 15-07-2016 04:12PM

testaccount123 wrote: »

And? Are there christians selling their raped daughters?

That's a survey I haven't carried out,

There are however Catholic countries that persecute and even kill gays. Like I said before, all religion is fnucked up.

testaccount123 · 15-07-2016 04:13PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

That's a survey I haven't carried out,

Ill answer it for you so. No, christians are not selling their raped daughters, so its irrelevant to this discussion.

There you go.

HensVassal · 15-07-2016 04:14PM

BoatMad wrote: »

It very clearly removed the need for s very costly armed assault on the Japanese homeland

The need wasn't there. The Japanese had been attempting to surrender for months. But that's another story.

Jimmy Garlic · 15-07-2016 04:14PM

testaccount123 wrote: »

And? Are there christians selling their raped daughters?

Doesn't happen. The overwhelming majority of Christians don't view the Bible as something that should be viewed literally and followed word for word. You see the bulk of Christianity moved past the point where Islam is now several centuries ago.

Shenshen · 15-07-2016 04:14PM

jmayo wrote: »

We always get the argument that muslims have faced discrimination and that is why the kids are turning to fundamentalism.

But then what about the Christian immigrant kids of say African and Caribbean immigrants ?
They have maybe faced with as much if not more discrimination, so why haven't they being blowing themselves up or heading off to Sub Saharan Africa to indulge in a bit of Christian on whatever genocide ?
If anything it is the fundamentalist muslims that are trying to attract these kids in order to have more willing suicide bombers.

And yes I do know of the African and Caribbean immigrants descendants who converted to islam and who were involved in attacks in Britain.

Way to go to completely misunderstand.
I'm not pointing the finger at ANY religion or ideology. I'm saying they all have and do lend themselves to justify terrorism and artrocities. Christianity for example was used as an excuse to torture, murder and rape millions throughout its history in Europe.
But the fact is - IT DOESN'T DO THAT ANY MORE.
And once we find out why, and find a way to replicate that development, we might have a tool to solve the problem with Islamist terrorism we face today.

If we keep shouting "It's Islam that's the problem!!!" we'll remain stuck right here, in the exact spot in the exact situation we're in right now, with more and more people dying every month.

Shenshen · 15-07-2016 04:17PM

testaccount123 wrote: »

Ill answer it for you so. No, christians are not selling their raped daughters, so its irrelevant to this discussion.

There you go.

Nope, but some give them away for free these days. To settle debts, apparently.

testaccount123 · 15-07-2016 04:18PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Nope, but some give them away for free these days. To settle debts, apparently.

Despicable. Perhaps we should invite millions of Amish to Europe so, that seems to be the logic.

HensVassal · 15-07-2016 04:27PM

BoatMad wrote: »

I think it's s fair deduction that he's s radicalised Muslim , that was formerly in trouble ( we e been here before ! )

It's not a simple nut job

Seems to piss you off...the possibility that he was just a random nutcase rather than a relgious fundamental operative, that way you can't justify venting your spleen at an entire religious group.

timmyntc · 15-07-2016 04:31PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Way to go to completely misunderstand.
I'm not pointing the finger at ANY religion or ideology. I'm saying they all have and do lend themselves to justify terrorism and artrocities. Christianity for example was used as an excuse to torture, murder and rape millions throughout its history in Europe.
But the fact is - IT DOESN'T DO THAT ANY MORE.
And once we find out why, and find a way to replicate that development, we might have a tool to solve the problem with Islamist terrorism we face today.

If we keep shouting "It's Islam that's the problem!!!" we'll remain stuck right here, in the exact spot in the exact situation we're in right now, with more and more people dying every month.

Agreed, however shouting "There's nothing wrong with Islam!!!!" or crying "Islamaphobia!!" does little to help and everything to enable the problem.

There is a problem with Islam: it's stuck in the dark ages whereas Christianity has come forward leaps and bounds. The very fact that Christians don't live their lives according to the old testament is proof enough of this.
However in most sects of Islam, the Quran is still, in it's entirety, the bees knees, the be all and end all. It is the word of God and must be followed.

Spanish Eyes · 15-07-2016 04:35PM

Forget about Islam for a minute.

Seems this man had a breakdown and like Braevik did he went on a rampage. He was no angel up to this point anyway.

What has that got to do with Islam.

testaccount123 · 15-07-2016 04:35PM

HensVassal wrote: »

Seems to piss you off...the possibility that he was just a random nutcase rather than a relgious fundamental operative, that way you can't justify venting your spleen at an entire religious group.

So its just a coincidence that all the people carrying out mass murders in France are from Muslim backgrounds. This is the best one yet.

testaccount123 · 15-07-2016 04:36PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Forget about Islam for a minute.

Seems this man had a breakdown and like Braevik did he went on a rampage. He was no angel up to this point anyway.

What has that got to do with Islam.

Someone should come up with a bingo-style drinking game for this ****

jmayo · 15-07-2016 04:36PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Christianity (if you read the Bible literally) tells you that you should sell your daughter if she is raped. :rolleyes:

How many christians take a bible literally ?
Then ask how many muslims actually do take the Quran and the teaching of the prophets literally.

Shenshen wrote: »

Way to go to completely misunderstand.
I'm not pointing the finger at ANY religion or ideology. I'm saying they all have and do lend themselves to justify terrorism and artrocities. Christianity for example was used as an excuse to torture, murder and rape millions throughout its history in Europe.
But the fact is - IT DOESN'T DO THAT ANY MORE.
And once we find out why, and find a way to replicate that development, we might have a tool to solve the problem with Islamist terrorism we face today.

If we keep shouting "It's Islam that's the problem!!!" we'll remain stuck right here, in the exact spot in the exact situation we're in right now, with more and more people dying every month.

But islam and muslims is the fooking problem just like Christianity, catholicism and christians, catholics were the problem when they were slaughtering all around them.

The power of the christian churches was lessened through enlightenment and christians started to cop on that they were being fed baloney by the church leaders.
It took longer for some, like those in Ireland, to cop on to this but it still happened.

Some others here who have said that islam needs it's own enlightenment have been attacked by others.

IMHO the scary thing that is happening in islam is that fundamentalism is growing because it is being hugely sponsored by some very unsavoury regimes and vulnerable people are being suckered in all the time.
If anything islam is going backwards at a rate of centuries.
Countries that were once opening up and becoming secular are now in danger of going the opposite way.

The other difficulty in this is that islam has no central controls like for instance the catholic church of church of England so more difficult to dictate from top down.

Billy86 · 15-07-2016 04:38PM

testaccount123 wrote: »

Its really the French peoples fault. Muslims should be given more welfare.

Are you actually at all interested in figuring out the cause of the problem and how to remedy it and improve society and the world we live in, or are you just basking in the hatred?

The Highwayman · 15-07-2016 04:38PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Bobthefireman wrote: »

Islam (if you read the Koran literally) teaches you to kill all infidels (non-Muslims).
That is Islam.

Christianity (if you read the Bible literally) tells you that you should sell your daughter if she is raped. :rolleyes:

How many mass murders have Christians carried out over the last year?

Timberrrrrrrr · 15-07-2016 04:40PM

The Highwayman wrote: »

How many mass murders have Christians carried out over the last year?

Dunno, how many mass shootings have happened in the USA so far this year?

HensVassal · 15-07-2016 04:45PM

Bobthefireman wrote: »

But it IS Islam. I don't know of any buddhist bombing Paris?

Well there are Buddhist fundamentalists roaming around Burma beating and hacking people to death.

BorneTobyWilde · 15-07-2016 04:45PM

timmyntc wrote: »

With a truck full of explosives, there's surely more to it than just a crazy loner?

I thought there was reports that they were only toy guns and grenades in truck. Nothing real.

Nice - Bastille day **mod warning post 1**

Comments

Nice - Bastille day mod warning post 1