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Philip Cairns' Murder finally confirmed?

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Comments

  • #1052
    Allyall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Allyall


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    And told no one about what she saw ?
    Don't buy it
    I believe others knew and also said nothing
    In fact she probably knows everything as to what happened to the boy
    Offering piecemeal information to clear a guilty conscience knowing that fa will ever be able to be done about it now .
    To hell with others attitude .
    Selfish
    An anonymous tip years ago was all it would have taken to have prevented 30
    years of misery for a family ,time lost in searches and appeals and fruitless efforts

    She was born 6 or 7 years after Philip went missing, and I doubt her father confessed anything to her before he was locked up.


  • #1053
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    And told no one about what she saw ?
    Don't buy it
    I believe others knew and also said nothing
    In fact she probably knows everything as to what happened to the boy
    Offering piecemeal information to clear a guilty conscience knowing that fa will ever be able to be done about it now .
    To hell with others attitude .
    Selfish
    An anonymous tip years ago was all it would have taken to have prevented 30
    years of misery for a family ,time lost in searches and appeals and fruitless efforts

    You don't know anything yet. None of us do. You are speculating. You don't know if she has any valid information to offer, you don't know if she was a victim of her father, your don't know her mind on this at all.
    I think we need to wait and see what comes out before jumping to judgement.


  • #1054
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    Yes really.

    Shes talking shyte

    There may be valid reasons why shes talking shyte (both you and I have offered possible explanations)

    But nevertheless she is talking shyte.

    What does that even mean?


  • #1055
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    I wonder what else is in that collection of material allegedly found. If all is confirmed then those who received information prior to 2016 will have to be looked at: this case demands an inquiry. There are lessons to be learned and they need to be.

    Reading the reports of the letter again it seems that Cooke used "visits" to the radio station. IIRC there hadn't been any link mentioned between them before the witnesses came forward so this needs particular probing.


  • #1056
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    LorMal wrote: »
    You don't know anything yet. None of us do. You are speculating. You don't know if she has any valid information to offer, you don't know if she was a victim of her father, your don't know her mind on this at all.
    I think we need to wait and see what comes out before jumping to judgement.

    Again. It's irrelevant what she knows at this point
    It's 30 years too late for any justice to be done in the Cairns case


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  • #1057
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    Allyall wrote: »
    She was born 6 or 7 years after Philip went missing, and I doubt her father confessed anything to her before he was locked up.

    9 years of age when she saw him on the floor before fainting
    I'm referring to that witness .


  • #1058
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    I wonder what else is in that collection of material allegedly found. If all is confirmed then those who received information prior to 2016 will have to be looked at: this case demands an inquiry. There are lessons to be learned and they need to be.

    Reading the reports of the letter again it seems that Cooke used "visits" to the radio station. IIRC there hadn't been any link mentioned between them before the witnesses came forward so this needs particular probing.

    Agree
    There was an inquiry into the Fr Molloy murder case surely this demands one also
    Given the Molloy case is still open despite the new investigations and some witnesses still alive at the time one wonders if a Cairns inquiry would yield even less


  • #1059
    Ted111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Ted111


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    Reading the reports of the letter again it seems that Cooke used "visits" to the radio station. IIRC there hadn't been any link mentioned between them before the witnesses came forward so this needs particular probing.

    From Cooke's letter it seems Philip was at the radio station a number of times.
    No one in his family or life it seems knew about this Cooke connection.
    No doubt the sneaky, weasel told Philip to not tell anyone because the station visits would be stopped.
    What a tragically foolish thing for young Philip to strike up an association with this weird, old man - and not tell anyone.
    The only solace is that from the information available it would appear his death was quick.
    I remember reading a quote from his father where he said he had pretty much accepted that Philip was dead but often wondered about what terrible things happened to him before he died. Thankfully this may not have been the case.


  • #1060
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Ted111 wrote: »
    From Cooke's letter it seems Philip was at the radio station a number of times.
    No one in his family or life it seems knew about this Cooke connection.
    No doubt the sneaky, weasel told Philip to not tell anyone because the station visits would be stopped.
    What a tragically foolish thing for young Philip to strike up an association with this weird, old man - and not tell anyone.
    The only solace is that from the information available it would appear his death was quick.
    I remember reading a quote from his father where he said he had pretty much accepted that Philip was dead but often wondered about what terrible things happened to him before he died. Thankfully this may not have been the case.

    But how does a quiet religious boy come into contact with a man like Cooke? How does he visit the radio station more than once without his family knowing? Without some school friends knowing? if the report is accurate and it would be outlandish for a paper to publish that without it being true, then there are more questions emerging.


  • #1061
    Stasi 2.0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    I wonder what else is in that collection of material allegedly found. .

    Tonnes and tonnes of junk, Thousands of tapes and a fair amount of stolen property most likely. If they decide to go through that lot it will take months.

    The notion that Cooke made a million from Radio Dublin seems fanciful though.


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  • #1062
    Allyall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Allyall


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    9 years of age when she saw him on the floor before fainting
    I'm referring to that witness .

    Well then you quoted the wrong post. I was referring to his daughter that had defended him in the paper yesterday.

    The 9 year old that fainted is a completely different thing, that has been gone over numerous times. There could be a thousand reasons that she couldn't come forward before.


  • #1063
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    Tonnes and tonnes of junk, Thousands of tapes and a fair amount of stolen property most likely. If they decide to go through that lot it will take months.

    The notion that Cooke made a million from Radio Dublin seems fanciful though.

    They have no choice imho. Too much of Cooke and too much of the Cairns case has been half looked at or dismissed. Every scrap of evidence in that lock up should be trawled through. There may be all sorts of links to all sorts of activities to all sorts of people. If he left a confession to one thing he may have left more.


  • #1064
    Fuzzy Clam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Ted111 wrote: »
    From Cooke's letter it seems Philip was at the radio station a number of times.
    No one in his family or life it seems knew about this Cooke connection.
    No doubt the sneaky, weasel told Philip to not tell anyone because the station visits would be stopped.
    What a tragically foolish thing for young Philip to strike up an association with this weird, old man - and not tell anyone.
    The only solace is that from the information available it would appear his death was quick.
    I remember reading a quote from his father where he said he had pretty much accepted that Philip was dead but often wondered about what terrible things happened to him before he died. Thankfully this may not have been the case.
    We don't know if it refers to Philip Cairns though. He calls him his son.


  • #1065
    Ted111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Ted111


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    We don't know if it refers to Philip Cairns though. He calls him his son.


    I'd tend to agree with you if we were looking at just the letter. As the only evidence. Even considering he had no son called Philip.

    Any of the three pieces of evidence by themselves would be unsure. The three being 1. the girl who claims she saw philip in a pool of blood at the radio station. 2. Cookes admissions to Gardai of both knowing philip and also that philip was in his car. 3. his letter

    I was sceptical until the letter. But now I think the three together convinces me that the Cooke theory is correct.


  • #1066
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    Again. It's irrelevant what she knows at this point
    It's 30 years too late for any justice to be done in the Cairns case

    If Cooke is guilty then at least Philip's family will finally understand the circumstances of his death and there is some chance his remains may be recovered in due course.
    If Cooke is not guilty then we at least know the case is still open and there is a killer out there.
    Very important.


  • #1067
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Ted111 wrote: »
    I'd tend to agree with you if we were looking at just the letter. As the only evidence. Even considering he had no son called Philip.

    Any of the three pieces of evidence by themselves would be unsure. The three being 1. the girl who claims she saw philip in a pool of blood at the radio station. 2. Cookes admissions to Gardai of both knowing philip and also that philip was in his car. 3. his letter

    I was sceptical until the letter. But now I think the three together convinces me that the Cooke theory is correct.

    If the letter is true in every sense then the weight of evidence has shifted decisively.


  • #1068
    Stasi 2.0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    We don't know if it refers to Philip Cairns though. He calls him his son.

    The article states Cooke didnt have a son called Philip however Cooke fathered an indeterminite number of children by various women/girls (including a 15 year old)

    Alternatively the expression "my son" may have been a colloquialism rather than literal ?


  • #1069
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    LorMal wrote: »
    If Cooke is guilty then at least Philip's family will finally understand the circumstances of his death and there is some chance his remains may be recovered in due course.
    If Cooke is not guilty then we at least know the case is still open and there is a killer out there.
    Very important.

    Not really
    If Cooke was the perpetrator he got away with murder and the location of the body will never be revealed
    If he didn't and there is another person who did it he or she may have committed other murders or abuses and may have been caught if information was given years ago .


  • #1070
    Allyall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Allyall


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    Not really
    If Cooke was the perpetrator he got away with murder and the location of the body will never be revealed
    If he didn't and there is another person who did it he or she may have committed other murders or abuses and may have been caught if information was given years ago .

    We don't know what other information is in the letter.
    It may mention the whereabouts of Philip, and it may also lead to other unsolved cases.

    The peace of mind for Philips family is very important. The whereabouts of Philip, even more so, being very religious.
    They would want to both have a conclusive answer to what happened to Philip, or as close to, and be able to lay Philip to rest.

    At this stage, if the outcome is that Cooke did murder Philip, everyone is already aware he got did before they could prove it was him. What do you suggest they do? Just forget about it and focus on the cases where the criminal is still alive?


  • #1071
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    Not really
    If Cooke was the perpetrator he got away with murder and the location of the body will never be revealed
    If he didn't and there is another person who did it he or she may have committed other murders or abuses and may have been caught if information was given years ago .

    Look, we all wish someone had been caught years ago. It didn't happen. That doesn't stop it being very important to ascertain the truth about what happened.

    I dont know why you keep repeatedly pointing out the fact that Cooke is dead and therefore cannot be tried for the crime. That's obvious.

    Maybe I'm missing your point?


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  • #1072
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    LorMal wrote: »
    Look, we all wish someone had been caught years ago. It didn't happen. That doesn't stop it being very important to ascertain the truth about what happened.

    I dont know why you keep repeatedly pointing out the fact that Cooke is dead and therefore cannot be tried for the crime. That's obvious.

    Maybe I'm missing your point?

    Justice


  • #1073
    Bebopclown
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 137 ✭✭Bebopclown


    Id hate to be the person who has to go through all the tapes that where found in Cookes storage.


  • #1074
    Stasi 2.0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    He did have an obsession with recording and keeping stuff which extended to all his landline telephone calls.

    Anyone know why the TV3 programme isint on 3player ?

    ADDS: http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/989/110326/0/Philip-Cairns%3A-Fresh-Evidence Seemingly it is but only available in the Republic of Ireland :mad:


  • #1075
    Allyall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Allyall


    I was just thinking, Cooke seems the type to have been keeping a record of everything. Probably of every tunnel he dug, every container he buried etc..
    I wonder, if he was a member of a sick ring, did he keep a record of everyone else who was involved.
    I wonder if he did, if any of them were influential, as he seemed to get his money from nowhere and also seems to have got away with a lot in his life (that he was caught for).


  • #1076
    Stasi 2.0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Allyall wrote: »
    Ias he seemed to get his money from nowherere

    While Im sure Radio Dublin operated profitably for most of its existance judging by the manner in which it was run it was hardly turning over millions. Ive heard he also dabbled in property speculation its not clear on what scale this operated although he did seem to have a knack for spotting run down dives/waste ground which could be acquired for buttons and flogged on for redevelopment a few years later. In the 1980's one of these dives housed the radio station.


  • #1077
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    Justice

    What justice do you seek that makes it so unimportant that it's known what happened to that poor kid thirty years ago? Yes, it's too late to help Philip that this man was a child molester and (if he was, since it's still not proven) a potential murderer. It's too late for Philip's father, who died in 2014. You can say it's thirty years too late for his family, and in many ways it is, but at least his remaining family can have some peace of mind now.

    Those two women that came forward could have more easily not come forward at all. It was thirty years ago, they were under no scrutiny to. They did, and thank god for not naming witnesses in this case, because they were vilified for it.

    It's thirty years late. If there was "justice", it would never have happened at all. If there was justice, he would have been caught and the child would have been saved. If there was justice, he would have been in prison a long time ago.

    There wasn't justice. There just may be a measure of peace now.


  • #1078
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,412 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Samaris wrote: »
    What justice do you seek that makes it so unimportant that it's known what happened to that poor kid thirty years ago? Yes, it's too late to help Philip that this man was a child molester and (if he was, since it's still not proven) a potential murderer. It's too late for Philip's father, who died in 2014. You can say it's thirty years too late for his family, and in many ways it is, but at least his remaining family can have some peace of mind now.

    Those two women that came forward could have more easily not come forward at all. It was thirty years ago, they were under no scrutiny to. They did, and thank god for not naming witnesses in this case, because they were vilified for it.

    It's thirty years late. If there was "justice", it would never have happened at all. If there was justice, he would have been caught and the child would have been saved. If there was justice, he would have been in prison a long time ago.

    There wasn't justice. There just may be a measure of peace now.
    What if it wasn't Cooke but was someone else? Someone still alive? Someone still allowed to work with children?

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  • #1079
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    kbannon wrote: »
    What if it wasn't Cooke but was someone else? Someone still alive? Someone still allowed to work with children?

    May still prove so, or at least, it may never be provable one way or another if Cooke was involved. But if that is the case, then it is even more important that this case is reopened and looked into.

    Mind you, if what you are suggesting -did- actually happen, I rather suspect the murderer would be charged based on later cases of child abuse at this point rather than a totally new lead tracking back to him now. But still, could happen.


  • #1080
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,412 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Samaris wrote: »
    May still prove so, or at least, it may never be provable one way or another if Cooke was involved. But if that is the case, then it is even more important that this case is reopened and looked into.
    Justice needs to be seen to be done. Even if Cooke did murder Philip, it needs to be solved.
    Samaris wrote: »
    Mind you, if what you are suggesting -did- actually happen, I rather suspect the murderer would be charged based on later cases of child abuse at this point rather than a totally new lead tracking back to him now. But still, could happen.
    You're assuming that it was a paedophile/child abuser. For all we know, the abductor killed themselves the same day. We just don't know; but just becauseone suspect is dead and the case is thirty years old does not mean that it should be shelved.

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  • #1081
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    kbannon wrote: »
    Justice needs to be seen to be done. Even if Cooke did murder Philip, it needs to be solved.

    You're assuming that it was a paedophile/child abuser. For all we know, the abductor killed themselves the same day. We just don't know; but just becauseone suspect is dead and the case is thirty years old does not mean that it should be shelved.

    Iii...begin to suspect you are jumping at the wrong end of the stick regarding my posts :P I was originally replying to someone who was insisting it was thirty years too late for this story and for the developments.

    I entirely agree and have been saying that I believe it is important to keep investigating the new allegations in this case and hope that it can finally be solved for the peace of mind of Cairns' family if it was Cooke, and to continue tracking his murderer if not (I do tend to believe that Cooke -was- guilty, it's still only circumstantial bar that witness statement, but my belief is neither here nor there).

    Either way, even if it is too late for justice against the murderer (if it was Cooke), and too late for Philip's father to know what happened to his son, it is important for his mother and family to have this thirty-year mystery solved and..just maybe, to finally have remains to bury.


This discussion has been closed.
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