you should just "GET OVER" ever owning a home says PP boss

kupus · 17-06-2016 1:36pm #1

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/get-over-the-idea-of-buying-a-home-says-paypal-boss-34809212.html

Hmm, it looks like that thinking is here to stay. Why should somebody own a home. Wouldnt it be better for a hedge fund to own it. you just pay rent for the rest of your natural life. your kid pays for their life and on and on and on.

why should you have the hassle of trying to get a bank loan, trying to save years for a deposit then paying housing tax on top of that. ANd isnt it great that these funds recirculate the money around. Instead of it just going to the bank for a mortgage.

I mean it couldnt possibly be in her interest that "probably" her pension fund finances these hedge funds to buy housing blocks.
Could it?

So AH what do you think of these people and their fantasy to own their own home

The_Valeyard · 17-06-2016 1:38pm

Go home Yank,

Tis my field.

stoplooklisten · 17-06-2016 1:40pm

has she declared her own property ownership?

Timberrrrrrrr · 17-06-2016 1:41pm

kupus wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/get-over-the-idea-of-buying-a-home-says-paypal-boss-34809212.html

Hmm, it looks like that thinking is here to stay. Why should somebody own a home. Wouldnt it be better for a hedge fund to own it. you just pay rent for the rest of your natural life. your kid pays for their life and on and on and on.

why should you have the hassle of trying to get a bank loan, trying to save years for a deposit then paying housing tax on top of that. ANd isnt it great that these funds recirculate the money around. Instead of it just going to the bank for a mortgage.

I mean it couldnt possibly be in her interest that "probably" her pension fund finances these hedge funds to buy housing blocks.
Could it?

So AH what do you think of these people and their fantasy to own their own home

I think she is right , too much in the Irish mindset that you need to own your home, it's been drilled into generations of people that they should own a home.

Captain Chaos · 17-06-2016 1:44pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I think she is right , too much in the Irish mindset that you need to own your home, it's been drilled into generations of people that they should own a home.

The renting laws need to change first.

1: Long term leases need to looked at. 10+years.

2; More long term security.

Only then will it be a viable option imo.

percy212 · 17-06-2016 1:46pm

I really like renting and did so for many years in the US. Currently I am trying to purchase a home in Ireland because five years of renting has been downright scary re. lack of tenure, and no price controls.

FTA69 · 17-06-2016 1:46pm

"Ireland Inc" indeed, f*ck off. A country isn't some sort of corporation run for profit. It consists of human beings and a society in which we live and interact together. In that society, people have needs such as employment, housing, health care and education. These are the pillars upon which any meaningful society is founded; they aren't things to be automatically commodified and sold to the highest bidder to the profit or detriment of others.

A decent place to live should be something we aim to provide for everybody and a society where home ownership becomes impossible except for those rich enough to accumulate gaffs and gouge the rest of us isn't a society in good health in my opinion.

stoplooklisten · 17-06-2016 1:46pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I think she is right , too much in the Irish mindset that you need to own your home, it's been drilled into generations of people that they should own a home.

and why shouldn't they? what's wrong with owning you own home?

adam14 · 17-06-2016 1:47pm

How are people supposed to rent when they retire? Where is the money to come from - approx 60% of people have no private pension.

HensVassal · 17-06-2016 1:47pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I think she is right , too much in the Irish mindset that you need to own your home, it's been drilled into generations of people that they should own a home.

Do you own a car or rent one?

stoplooklisten · 17-06-2016 1:49pm

People was us to be more "european" when it comes to home ownership

Where's our 1.5% fixed 10/15 year mortgages like our European counterparts are enjoying at the moment?

kupus · 17-06-2016 1:53pm

stoplooklisten wrote: »

People was us to be more "european" when it comes to home ownership

Where's our 1.5% fixed 10/15 year mortgages like our European counterparts are enjoying at the moment?

Aha, who exactly does this benefit by is being more european?

sbsquarepants · 17-06-2016 1:55pm

I'd be willing to bet that she owns her house!

kupus · 17-06-2016 1:57pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I think she is right , too much in the Irish mindset that you need to own your home, it's been drilled into generations of people that they should own a home.

OK can you tell me why it is such a bad thing to own your property.
You get to 65. You dont owe anybody anything. You pay your house tax. Youre happy, GOV is happy, everybody wins.

Hedge funds want an extra 15 years of money after you retire. Would that be better for you or better for some company.

Fleawuss · 17-06-2016 1:58pm

kupus wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/get-over-the-idea-of-buying-a-home-says-paypal-boss-34809212.html

Hmm, it looks like that thinking is here to stay. Why should somebody own a home. Wouldnt it be better for a hedge fund to own it. you just pay rent for the rest of your natural life. your kid pays for their life and on and on and on.

why should you have the hassle of trying to get a bank loan, trying to save years for a deposit then paying housing tax on top of that. ANd isnt it great that these funds recirculate the money around. Instead of it just going to the bank for a mortgage.

I mean it couldnt possibly be in her interest that "probably" her pension fund finances these hedge funds to buy housing blocks.
Could it?

So AH what do you think of these people and their fantasy to own their own home

There is a serious corporatization of the country going on now: upcoming generations are going to be made into little more than sources of a revenue stream for multi national corporations. There is no society in Thatcher's infamous phrase. To counter the negative "turn back the clock to the 19th century" approach of the corporations, hedge funds and the 1% there needs to be a unified response across Europe from unions, environmentalists and others. Chances of that? I know.:mad:

SEPT 23 1989 · 17-06-2016 1:59pm

i feel very nervous about the future of my children

Saipanne · 17-06-2016 2:00pm

1/5 of adults own a property in Switzerland. They must be going through dire times in that country...

17-06-2016 2:02pm

Saipanne wrote: »

1/5 of adults own a property in Switzerland. They must be going through dire times in that country...

Nazi gold...:o

KomradeBishop · 17-06-2016 2:02pm

It's a good example of how increasing inequality, isn't just about the well off bettering their lot in life by making themselves more wealthy, and making society more 'productive'/better-off (for the better-off in large part...) - a big part of it is about making everybody else less well off, so that the more well off can suck up rents from the rest of society, in order to better secure their own future wealth/power.

I'm amazed at how complacent people seem to be, in the face of the housing/rental crisis - it doesn't really seem to be affecting peoples view of the big picture politically/economically a whole lot - the people most negatively affected by it still seem to be relatively powerless overall, and not that bothered about being politically active.

Even the whole narrative surrounding the housing crisis here and elsewhere, still seems to be dominated by those who either stand to gain from (or who just reflexively seek to uphold) the status quo.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 17-06-2016 2:03pm

I don't think there's anything wrong with working towards owning your own home once you're realistic about it.
I know I'd rather pay a grand off my mortgage and have something to leave my child when I die than pay a grand to live somewhere.

I would be so worried that I would die and leave any kids I had without a home or anywhere to go. It's security and peace of mind

Timberrrrrrrr · 17-06-2016 2:04pm

stoplooklisten wrote: »

and why shouldn't they? what's wrong with owning you own home?

I never said there was anything wrong with it, I said too much pressure has been put on generations of people to do so.

Ruu · 17-06-2016 2:04pm

Dublin 2050 sounds like a very bad science fiction film. 'We saved Haughey's brain!'

eeguy · 17-06-2016 2:06pm

Saipanne wrote: »

1/5 of adults own a property in Switzerland. They must be going through dire times in that country...

I don't like the idea that the house could be sold out from under me.

I don't like that I get no reward from putting my own money into the house and garden.

I don't like that I can't buy my own furniture and dump the existing stuff without LL approval.

I don't like that I can't paint the walls or put up shelves without LL approval.

I don't like that the shed at the bottom of the garden is locked and I don't have permission to access it.

I don't like that I'm just paying his mortgage.

I don't like that I'm living in a house and not a home.

beach_walker · 17-06-2016 2:07pm

I think you'd be mad not to be looking at some form of home ownership in this country.

...which is examining how Dublin will look in 34 years' time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XcGSJ6Of9g

FTA69 · 17-06-2016 2:07pm

Saipanne wrote: »

1/5 of adults own a property in Switzerland. They must be going through dire times in that country...

The difference being that continental European tenants tend to have excellent tenant rights with secure tenure and decent rent structures instead of the total sh*tshow we have in Ireland and the U.K.

Jawgap · 17-06-2016 2:08pm

HensVassal wrote: »

Do you own a car or rent one?

I lease. it makes more sense with a depreciating asset.

Home ownership is not for everyone, but it seems in this country people are convinced otherwise.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 17-06-2016 2:09pm

I wish we could be more like some continental countries where renting is a very safe and secure alternaive to buying your own property.

Too many people end up with a millstone around their neck here, paying off a mortgage on a house they don't particularly like, in an area they don't particularly want to live in. They can't take a job in another part of the country because the cost of moving would be too high, they can't move to an area they'd prefer because stamp duty, legal fees etc are prohibitive, they can't take any risks whatsoever with their careers because if they default on their mortgage their credit rating is ruined.

People who can't get on the ladder are made to feel like 'losers' because they're still renting in their forties or fifties.

There has to be a better way.

eeguy · 17-06-2016 2:10pm

The government need to get off it's arse and initialise a housing program. Compulsory purchase the hundreds of acres of unused wasteland in Dublin city and surrounding areas, rezone for high rises and tender for developers.
Sell the houses for a marginal profit and rinse and repeat.
Redevelop the hundreds of crumbling "protected" buildings.

Individuals have neither the capital or the power to do this.
Developer will only jump through these hoops for a large payout.

The Government hold the keys to solving this crisis and they should act as soon as possible.

stoplooklisten · 17-06-2016 2:13pm

there's loads of empty properties around the place, they;re been held off the market to held inflate it

yosser hughes · 17-06-2016 2:15pm

Louise Phelan,has a penchant for telling people what to do. Previously she said graduates were lazy and entitled.
I'm not sure what her actual qualifications are; apart from running a call centre. She seems a bit arrogant to me.

BrokenArrows · 17-06-2016 2:17pm

Countries who dont have the "must own" mindset have reasonable rent prices and a solid supply of properties to rent.

Places like Ireland and England who have the "must own" mindset change asmuch as they can possibly charge and they will get it because the supply is low.

But regardless of how you look at it if you rent for a life time you will spend far more than a mortgage. Probably 4 times more. Due to rent keeping up with inflation, where as a mortgage value remains the same and you just pay the interest and your salary keeps up with inflation usually so you are actually paying less.

conorhal · 17-06-2016 2:20pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I think she is right , too much in the Irish mindset that you need to own your home, it's been drilled into generations of people that they should own a home.

This has become such a rote learned argument, repeated so often that it's taken as fact. Owning a home, having the shelter of a roof over your head is not an obsession, it's a basic necessity. Having the security of ownership to your shelter is common sense.
The degree to which the government view food, shelter and water, the very basics for human survival, as comodities is a very worrying trend.

What yer wan actually means is that the plebs will have to be trained to accept that all their desposable income is to be funneled to the few, and the chances of accumulated wealth will deminish to nil. From now on you will 'owe your soul to the company store.'

For anybody who thinks renting for life is a good idea, consider whether or not you still want to be renting the day that you retire and your income becomes both deminished and fixed in a society with increecing pressure on housing demand and social services.

Junkyard Tom · 17-06-2016 2:20pm

She can fuck the fuck off.

smash · 17-06-2016 2:22pm

Why is anyone running, never mind even listening to the VP of global operations for PayPal's opinion on housing? It's like running an article saying that the CFO of Microsoft says people should get over the water charge.

She's not an authority on the subject, or any subject outside of PayPal. This isn't news ffs.

andekwarhola · 17-06-2016 2:22pm

There is a sense of entitlement in ireland when it comes to owning property.

Especially when so many people think they're being swindled from their God given right to own a place in a handful of toney Dublin suburbs (you don't get bitching in places like New York or London that an evil coalation of vested interests is preventing two teachers buying a house in Manhattan or St John's Wood).

That said, it is unfair to fully consider this properly when our rental sector is so flaky, unregulated and insecure.

Lyaiera · 17-06-2016 2:26pm

eeguy wrote: »

The government need to get off it's arse and initialise a housing program. Compulsory purchase the hundreds of acres of unused wasteland in Dublin city and surrounding areas, rezone for high rises and tender for developers.
Sell the houses for a marginal profit and rinse and repeat.

The Greens had something similar in their manifesto before the election. Except they were talking about renting. The government borrows the money to build with the housing as the collateral. Then they rent at reasonable rates to public, who have long term tenancy rights as well as more responsibility over the upkeep and management of where they're living. The problem with a government building and selling houses is well documented as problematic in the UK, particularly London where Thatcher selling off the state owned houses being seen as playing a huge part in the rocketing rental prices, and the cost of housing.

I can't see the state building huge amounts of housing. The 100% mortgages we had were a factor in the property bubble and market collapse, so there's problems with that. Increases in rights of tenants to take long term rents is something that's going to have to happen. Especially as right now it's impossible to get a tenancy agreement for a place for the medium term, let along the long term.

stoplooklisten · 17-06-2016 2:27pm

Nama, the biggest scam since sliced bread

Sh1tbag OToole · 17-06-2016 2:30pm

Everyone perpetually paying 3.25% fees to paypal for paying their rent would be a great little earner for her. No wonder she's in favour.

Saipanne · 17-06-2016 2:31pm

eeguy wrote: »

I don't like the idea that the house could be sold out from under me.

I don't like that I get no reward from putting my own money into the house and garden.

I don't like that I can't buy my own furniture and dump the existing stuff without LL approval.

I don't like that I can't paint the walls or put up shelves without LL approval.

I don't like that the shed at the bottom of the garden is locked and I don't have permission to access it.

I don't like that I'm just paying his mortgage.

I don't like that I'm living in a house and not a home.

The poor Swiss. Much worse off than us...,

stoplooklisten · 17-06-2016 2:43pm

awaits cryey article "I was criticized by online trolls"

Potatoeman · 17-06-2016 2:45pm

Saipanne wrote: »

1/5 of adults own a property in Switzerland. They must be going through dire times in that country...

It's far cheaper to rent, you have more security and there are professional landlords in many European countries. Many properties in Ireland are more expensive to rent than to buy.

conorhal · 17-06-2016 2:51pm

Potatoeman wrote: »

It's far cheaper to rent, you have more security and there are professional landlords in many European countries. Many properties in Ireland are more expensive to rent than to buy.

It's INSANELY expensive to rent in Switzerland, but it's inconceivably expensive to buy which is why most people rent. That and the fact that Switzerland has a highly transient population. Many people work there for a period and leave, many others buy in France and commute. I was offered a job there for mad money but when I factored in the cost of living I quickly realised it wasn't worth it, I'd have been no better off then I was here in real terms despite it being double what I currently earn.
They also have a lot of wierd laws about ownership, cheaper property is often in more isolate and deprived areas which prevent buyers from outside those cantons (I think), I'd have to ask my mate about it.

Alf Veedersane · 17-06-2016 2:53pm

The house next door to us was recently up for letting.

Same size house. The rent is 2.3 times our mortgage with all of the security that renting in Ireland brings with it.

That was the first time in my life I ever thought about being better off owning.

That said, if the rental market was more secure as many have pointed out, the 'must own' mentality would be much less, I suspect.

Jawgap · 17-06-2016 2:56pm

Potatoeman wrote: »

It's far cheaper to rent, you have more security and there are professional landlords in many European countries. Many properties in Ireland are more expensive to rent than to buy.

that's the problem here. I would never be a tenant here (again) and I would deffo never be a landlord.

if we had a 'proper' system of rent controls, and tenants' rights - if you had that institutional landlords would be much more interested in getting into the market and would be happy with 3% to 7% returns. As it is a lot of small (<3 properties) rely on rent to pay mortgages and that creates and upward pressure on rents.

smash · 17-06-2016 3:04pm

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

A full time job should mean a single person can easily afford a one bed. That's the whole point of renting and apartment living. That it's affordable. That is the level at which I would find rental prices appropriate. It's Dublin, it's not Manhatten. And it never will be.

Yea but you're forgetting about supply vs demand.

17-06-2016 3:04pm

Potatoeman wrote: »

It's far cheaper to rent, you have more security and there are professional landlords in many European countries. Many properties in Ireland are more expensive to rent than to buy.

Cheaper to rent what, exactly? A room in a house share with 6 other people? That's accommodation for students with no income. It most certainly isn't cheaper than a mortgage payment, and is significantly more expensive over a life time.

17-06-2016 3:06pm

smash wrote: »

Yea but you're forgetting about supply vs demand.

Supply is being kept artificially low with height restrictions and a lack of tax on developers sitting on land. Not to forget NAMA.

We are being ridden. It's one big pyramid scheme.

Akrasia · 17-06-2016 3:07pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I think she is right , too much in the Irish mindset that you need to own your home, it's been drilled into generations of people that they should own a home.

The difference between rich and poor, is the rich own, and the poor rent.

If it's a good investment to own property when you're rich, then it's utterly patronising for millionaires to tell ordinary middle class hard working people that they should never dream of owning their own place to live.

The only time rich people rent property is when they're renting it from a shell company to avoid tax

smash · 17-06-2016 3:11pm

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

Supply is being kept artificially low with height restrictions and a lack of tax on developers sitting on land. Not to forget NAMA.

We are being ridden. It's one big pyramid scheme.

Take off your tinfoil hat there Sergio.

Akrasia · 17-06-2016 3:12pm

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

Cheaper to rent what, exactly? A room in a house share with 6 other people? That's accommodation for students with no income. It most certainly isn't cheaper than a mortgage payment, and is significantly more expensive over a life time.

Way more expensive, and how is a retired person supposed to compete in the rental market with someone in the prime of their career?

Rents go up with inflation, mortgages go down as the loan is paid off. Renters die without any assets. House owners die with assets that can help their children get ahead in life

This is a key driver of inter-generational poverty.

SEPT 23 1989 · 17-06-2016 3:22pm

People won't retire,they will work until they become a burden on the corporations due to failing health and then liquidation

you should just "GET OVER" ever owning a home says PP boss

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