Philip Cairns' Murder finally confirmed?

Wibbs · 14-06-2016 09:54AM

Allyall wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/philip-cairns-case-garda-to-interview-ex-radio-dublin-staff-1.2683266

:rolleyes:

Dunno why the rolleyes. The guy worked on the case, has a better idea of the evidence and lines of enquiry than we do and he's just giving his opinion. Personally it feels to me a little convenient to link that dead pervert to this crime. It could well have been him, but much more evidence required.

Kamili · 14-06-2016 09:57AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Dunno why the rolleyes. The guy worked on the case, has a better idea of the evidence and lines of enquiry than we do and he's just giving his opinion. Personally it feels to me a little convenient to link that dead pervert to this crime. It could well have been him, but much more evidence required.

I think the issue here is that there's already been some untruths exposed, Gardai working on the case had in 2007 denied any paedophile links to the case.

Yet in 2016 they are now saying a well known paedofile is linked to the case.

so something in there deserves a rolleyes.

What yet, I do agree we don't know. Maybe they are pinning it on Cooke because he has died.

Either way we are being told untruths, by the media or someone else close to the case.

Allyall · 14-06-2016 09:58AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Dunno why the rolleyes. The guy worked on the case, has a better idea of the evidence and lines of enquiry than we do and he's just giving his opinion. Personally it feels to me a little convenient to link that dead pervert to this crime. It could well have been him, but much more evidence required.

I agree, I just don't agree with much that he has to say. He wasn't know for his sleuthing skills. Well, not as much as his 'other' skills.
For him to come out questioning the dots is a bit... ironic.
Evidence never seemed to be his priority.

WonkyMe · 14-06-2016 10:01AM

LorMal wrote: »

What does he mean 'I can’t figure out how this little witness of nine years of age, who was an abused child herself, could have witnessed what went on in the studio without someone seeing.'.
.

Maybe this is not directed at the witness but at other people who would have been there and have said they saw nothing.....

brooke 2 · 14-06-2016 10:13AM

Allyall wrote: »

I agree, I just don't agree with much that he has to say. He wasn't know for his sleuthing skills. Well, not as much as his 'other' skills.
For him to come out questioning the dots is a bit... ironic.
Evidence never seemed to be his priority.

He is an out and out bluffer! What a wonderful job he did in the Kerry Babies case. Not!! Still believes in his superfecundity theory re Joanne Hayes. Some supersleuthing done in that case!!

It is in O'Carroll's own interest to say that he does not believe Cooke had anything to do with Philip Cairns' disappearance. Say, for the sake of argument, that Cooke was guilty, wouldn't it be
very embarrassing for O'Carroll if this were so, considering he was one of the detectives in the case?

Flippyfloppy · 14-06-2016 10:15AM

LorMal wrote: »

'I don't feel all the dots have been joined' 'part of this story lacks credibility' - he's just having a guess himself.
What does he mean 'I can’t figure out how this little witness of nine years of age, who was an abused child herself, could have witnessed what went on in the studio without someone seeing.'.
Why not? It was hardly BBC Television Centre.

Sure weren't loads of kids abused there? You'd assume there wasn't witnesses to that either....

Allyall · 14-06-2016 10:17AM

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-the-strongest-lead-weve-ever-had-in-philip-cairns-case-former-detective-gerry-ocarroll-34796161.html

'This is the strongest lead we've ever had in Philip Cairns' case' - former detective Gerry O'Carroll

LorMal · 14-06-2016 10:18AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Dunno why the rolleyes. The guy worked on the case, has a better idea of the evidence and lines of enquiry than we do and he's just giving his opinion. Personally it feels to me a little convenient to link that dead pervert to this crime. It could well have been him, but much more evidence required.

My concern about him giving his opinion is that he is openly questioning the bona fides of the witness that came forward. My understanding is that she has not gone to the police directly but the information has been conveyed through her counsellor.
Such very public speculation on his part may discourage this witness, or indeed other witnesses, to come forward.
After 30 years waiting for new information, perhaps this is not the time to be playing the wise old sceptic. His opinion did not seem to be based on anything other than a feeling that the dots don't join up.

Kamili · 14-06-2016 10:19AM

I am getting increasingly confused by what is coming out in the media lately. Something isn't adding up.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/philip-cairns-mother-i-still-use-the-laneway-i-still-wonder-about-the-schoolbag-34798671.html

She says the news that the notorious paedophile and radio DJ Eamon Cooke was involved in her son's disappearance came as a bolt from the blue - and gave her family fresh hope of resolution...

.... The gardaí came to me a number of weeks ago and told us that they were examining a new line of inquiry, but did not mention Eamon Cooke by name.
"They said they were going to interview this person. I think it was a few days later they came back and said that the first day they went to him he said he knew Philip or had been in his company, but then when they went back again a second time he denied knowing him at all.

"They said they weren't sure if there was anything credible in the information or if this man was just leading them on, but they are still investigating it."

Shurimgreat · 14-06-2016 10:21AM

I don't think anything has been solved yet. Until they find a body, everything is speculation and one person's word against another.
The truth is this may never be fully solved.

Either way the woman in this case if of questionable character, so can we believe anything she says?

stoplooklisten · 14-06-2016 10:22AM

I was thinking they were trying to discredit the witness, but maybe the reason is they know something/someone else did it

pure speculation

LorMal · 14-06-2016 10:26AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I don't think anything has been solved yet. Until they find a body, everything is speculation and one person's word against another.
The truth is this may never be fully solved.

Either way the woman in this case if of questionable character, so can we believe anything she says?

Sorry, where did that come from? Why is she of questionable character?

Kamili · 14-06-2016 10:27AM

LorMal wrote: »

Sorry, where did that come from? Why is she of questionable character?

I think the questionable character is Cooke, but doesn't mean he is the killer either.

I hope he doesn't get pinned with the killing if he wasn't the one that did it. Simply because the real killer may still be out there.

Flippyfloppy · 14-06-2016 10:27AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Either way the woman in this case if of questionable character, so can we believe anything she says?

We've been given absolutely no reason to ascertain the woman is of questionable character.

Allyall · 14-06-2016 10:29AM

LorMal wrote: »

My concern about him giving his opinion is that he is openly questioning the bona fides of the witness that came forward. My understanding is that she has not gone to the police directly but the information has been conveyed through her counsellor.
Such very public speculation on his part may discourage this witness, or indeed other witnesses, to come forward.
After 30 years waiting for new information, perhaps this is not the time to be playing the wise old sceptic. His opinion did not seem to be based on anything other than a feeling that the dots don't join up.

Exactly. And the other mouth, Gareth 'I'm his cousin' O'Callaghan.

Why are they saying anything if it's only to diecredit the alleged witness?
It has been well documented that the person that came forward has had great difficulty in doing so.
If it wasn't obvious anyway, after it had taken 30 years.
The Gardaí release a statement actually saying that it took tremendous courage.
And these two mouths seem to appear in every publication and on social media, questioning her memory and credibility.

Kamili · 14-06-2016 10:43AM

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/philip-cairns-case-garda-to-interview-ex-radio-dublin-staff-1.2683266

So based on this, a Garda working on the case comes out again to discredit another witness, after another Garda working on the case discredited two others who came forward in 2007? Am I missing something?

Retired detective inspector Gerry O’Carroll, said: “I have serious questions. I don’t for one instance feel all the dots have been joined or that we have yet reached a stage of conclusivity that Eamon Cooke took little Philip... Part of this entire story lacks credibility.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/i...-26420652.html - 2007

The latest story, which emerged late last year, is that the former partner of a suspected paedophile has come forward to claim that the paedophile abducted and then murdered Philip. Her story was allegedly corroborated by another woman, who was also a former partner of the man in question.
"I can absolutely confirm that that is not true," says Det Sgt Tom Doyle, who for the past 10 years has headed up the investigation into Philip's case. "That report was wildly inaccurate.

Flippyfloppy · 14-06-2016 10:45AM

Allyall wrote: »

And these two mouths seem to appear in every publication and on social media, questioning her memory and credibility.

It's ridiculous. Gareth seen all those girls passing through the station and apparently never copping on to what happened? And he has the cheek to question this girls credibility?? This whole thing smacks of Saville, people standing by allowing our most vulnerable , our children, to be treated this way.

And the retired o Carroll saying the dots don't join up. What's the point in him saying this? He couldn't solve this case the first time, I think he should step back and stop interfering.

Keane2baMused · 14-06-2016 10:57AM

This is all piecing together so strangely.

I've an awful feeling there is a lot more to come out on this. Perhaps it is true that Cooke was not the only person involved.

Maybe that's why even to his last breath he refused to state where he put the boys body. He may well have been protecting others.

Kamili · 14-06-2016 11:01AM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

This is all piecing together so strangely.

I've an awful feeling there is a lot more to come out on this. Perhaps it is true that Cooke was not the only person involved.

Maybe that's why even to his last breath he refused to state where he put the boys body. He may well have been protecting others.

It was pointed out in 2002 by Jim Guerin that at least three people were involved in the death, and that there were others involved.

So yes I think I agree, he is protecting others, many others, not just the other two involved in the killing.

brooke 2 · 14-06-2016 11:05AM

Allyall wrote: »

Exactly. And the other mouth, Gareth 'I'm his cousin' O'Callaghan.

Why are they saying anything if it's only to diecredit the alleged witness?
It has been well documented that the person that came forward has had great difficulty in doing so.
If it wasn't obvious anyway, after it had taken 30 years.
The Gardaí release a statement actually saying that it took tremendous courage.
And these two mouths seem to appear in every publication and on social media, questioning her memory and credibility.

Interesting both O'Callaghan and O'Carroll were
on with Joe Duffy. Joe knew Cooke's house well as 'the bus from Ballyfermot passed by it every day'. I actually heard the repeat last night - both seemed to be there to talk down the credibility of the person who is helping police with their inquiries. Listening to the two guys basically saying that you could not really believe a traumatised nine year old, I could not help thinking about the abused children in the
past who were not believed by those in whom they confided. Fr. Michael Cleary, who was stationed in Ballyfermot, worked on Radio
Dublin and talked up Cooke at the time accusations were made about him, saying he was a great guy and the rumours about him were totally unfounded. Cleary was lionised
in the media at the time, so it benefited Cooke
to have been defended in the public place by him.

Samaris · 14-06-2016 11:08AM

Kamili wrote: »

It was pointed out in 2002 by Jim Guerin that at least three people were involved in the death, and that there were others involved.

So yes I think I agree, he is protecting others, many others, not just the other two involved in the killing.

I -am- dubious as to the Guerin report. He was being very "this is what happened" with no backing up of his statements.

Shurimgreat · 14-06-2016 11:08AM

LorMal wrote: »

Sorry, where did that come from? Why is she of questionable character?

Simple really. She had ample time to go to the gardai with a statement. It could have solved this case years ago. Even an anonymous tip off would have helped solve it.

She kept it to herself and put the Cairns family through years of misery and not knowing what happened, unimaginable I would say. I'm sure they spent the last 30 years wondering, looking, searching, not resting for a minute.

Meanwhile she sat on this information all the time. Even an anonymous note to the family, guards, newspaper, etc would have helped.

So that's where the questionable character comes from. She needlessly put the family through hell.

Kamili · 14-06-2016 11:09AM

Samaris wrote: »

I -am- dubious as to the Guerin report. He was being very "this is what happened" with no backing up of his statements.

But in light of what we know now... it seems credible.

Kamili · 14-06-2016 11:10AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Simple really. She had ample time to go to the gardai with a statement. It could have solved this case years ago. Even an anonymous tip off would have helped solve it.

She kept it to herself and put the Cairns family through years of misery and not knowing what happened, unimaginable I would say. I'm sure they spent the last 30 years wondering, looking, searching, not resting for a minute.

Meanwhile she sat on this information all the time. Even an anonymous note to the family, guards, newspaper, etc would have helped.

So that's where the questionable character comes from. She needlessly put the family through hell.

I'm getting very frustrated and sick of people victim bashing on this thread.

Shurimgreat · 14-06-2016 11:14AM

Kamili wrote: »

I'm getting very frustrated and sick of people victim bashing on this thread.

We know nothing about this woman only to take her word.

For all we show she could be a fantacist, deranged or imagined the whole thing.

Its not victim bashing. The timing of all this is strange.

If her story was true today, its been true for 30 years and she could have given a statement at any time.

I'm reserving judgement until I see some proof. A proper investigation is needed, not taking someone at their word.

Fleawuss · 14-06-2016 11:15AM

Kamili wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/philip-cairns-case-garda-to-interview-ex-radio-dublin-staff-1.2683266

So based on this, a Garda working on the case comes out again to discredit another witness, after another Garda working on the case discredited two others who came forward in 2007? Am I missing something?

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/i...-26420652.html - 2007

We are all missing a great deal on this case and we probably always will. the second thing above: was the Garda discrediting them or simply saying that reports that people had come forward were false?

Fleawuss · 14-06-2016 11:16AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

We know nothing about this woman only to take her word.

For all we show she could be a fantacist, deranged or imagined the whole thing.

Its not victim bashing. The timing of all this is strange.

If her story was true today, its been true for 30 years and she could have given a statement at any time.

I'm reserving judgement until I see some proof. A proper investigation is needed, not taking someone at their word.

It's past time GSOC were looking at this.

Kamili · 14-06-2016 11:19AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

We know nothing about this woman only to take her word.

For all we show she could be a fantacist, deranged or imagined the whole thing.

Its not victim bashing. The timing of all this is strange.

If her story was true today, its been true for 30 years and she could have given a statement at any time.

I'm reserving judgement until I see some proof. A proper investigation is needed, not taking someone at their word.

It is victim bashing, she is a proven victim of Cooke.

N365 · 14-06-2016 11:25AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Simple really. She had ample time to go to the gardai with a statement. It could have solved this case years ago. Even an anonymous tip off would have helped solve it.

She kept it to herself and put the Cairns family through years of misery and not knowing what happened, unimaginable I would say. I'm sure they spent the last 30 years wondering, looking, searching, not resting for a minute.

Meanwhile she sat on this information all the time. Even an anonymous note to the family, guards, newspaper, etc would have helped.

So that's where the questionable character comes from. She needlessly put the family through hell.

She alleged to have witnessed what would have been clearly traumatic to a child. We don't know her circumstances. People were clearly afraid of this guy. Even an anonymous letter may have led to her being discovered. Wasn't he convicted of trying to burn down the home of a victim? If she was a victim of his then surely we should not be questioning her character.

Kamili · 14-06-2016 11:27AM

Fleawuss wrote: »

We are all missing a great deal on this case and we probably always will. the second thing above: was the Garda discrediting them or simply saying that reports that people had come forward were false?

yes you're right, my use of the word discrediting is incorrect. Discounting would be better.

Philip Cairns' Murder finally confirmed?

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