Philip Cairns' Murder finally confirmed?

wokingvoter

Shurimgreat wrote: »

As I said also, everything is supposition.

She might be right, she might be wrong.

At the moment, no-one including you has a clue if she is right or wrong.

So let's see how this investigation progresses, ok?

But YOUVE decided that she is of "questionable character". Your words. You didn't wait for the investigation to progress.
So, what evidence have you got that she is of "questionable character"?

Shurimgreat

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Hmm let me see. Take a swab of a suspect and potentially solve a long running crime.

Or don't take a swab?

Did I say just anyone? Or did I say a suspect? Read back.

Anybody can be a suspect

Dolbert

Excellent article about some of the inconsistencies on Broadsheet:

No prosecution can be brought against the dead; nor can they be defamed under Irish defamation law. Attributing a murder on a dead person is one way to end an investigation without further inquiry.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/06/14/philip-cairns-and-a-trail-of-disinformation/

Shurimgreat

bubblypop wrote: »

This is blaming the victim.
You suggest she just sat back & did nothing for 30 years.
You have no idea of her circumstances or what she has gone through.
Given that she is an abuse victim also, she may well be very damaged, she is obviously seeing a counselor atm.

She may be damaged you are right.

Do you see the contradiction here?

And again I am not victim blaming anyone. I am trying to understand how this information was suppressed for 30 years. Its unusual that something like this wasn't told to at least one other person.

Shurimgreat

wokingvoter wrote: »

But YOUVE decided that she is of "questionable character". Your words. You didn't wait for the investigation to progress.
So, what evidence have you got that she is of "questionable character"?

Its in my posts. I don't feel I need to repeat them for you.

Kamili

So here is some info on DNA sampling
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/dna-database-garda%C3%AD-to-take-bodily-samples-from-suspects-1.2428983

Generally, samples may only be taken for offences with a penalty of five years imprisonment or more.

So Gardai can't just take samples willy nilly. Voluntary samples can be taken though.

Shurimgreat

Shurimgreat wrote: »

She may be damaged you are right.

Do you see the contradiction here?

And again I am not victim blaming anyone. I am trying to understand how this information was suppressed for 30 years. Its unusual that something like this wasn't told to at least one other person.

You must not have had many dealings with victims of abuse, no offence .
It's not at all unusual for this to remain suppressed for 30 years. Doesn't surprise me at all.

wokingvoter

Shurimgreat wrote: »

She may be damaged you are right.

Do you see the contradiction here?

And again I am not victim blaming anyone. I am trying to understand how this information was suppressed for 30 years. Its unusual that something like this wasn't told to at least one other person.

Forget victim blaming. I would appreciate if you could just explain your conclusion that she is of questionable character

Kamili

Shurimgreat wrote: »

She may be damaged you are right.

Do you see the contradiction here?

And again I am not victim blaming anyone. I am trying to understand how this information was suppressed for 30 years. Its unusual that something like this wasn't told to at least one other person.

She was threatened, abused, raped, strangled...

Do I need to go on?

The flying mouse

Dolbert wrote: »

Excellent article about some of the inconsistencies on Broadsheet:

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/06/14/philip-cairns-and-a-trail-of-disinformation/

This is a must read

Dolbert

Can we move on from when the witness coulda woulda shoulda come forward please? It's hardly the issue at hand.

Two Tone

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Simple really. She had ample time to go to the gardai with a statement. It could have solved this case years ago. Even an anonymous tip off would have helped solve it.

She kept it to herself and put the Cairns family through years of misery and not knowing what happened, unimaginable I would say. I'm sure they spent the last 30 years wondering, looking, searching, not resting for a minute.

Meanwhile she sat on this information all the time. Even an anonymous note to the family, guards, newspaper, etc would have helped.

So that's where the questionable character comes from. She needlessly put the family through hell.

Aw man, still?

Even the most vitriolic posters earlier in the thread have stopped beating that drum.

No ideas whatsoever what kind of coercion (not just from Cooke) - just... she chose to cause suffering to the Cairns family for your craic. And it's so straightforward for abuse survivors just to come forward and name names.

I don't think the timing is strange at all tbh. He's dead - can't hurt her, doesn't need to be protected any more. Perfect sense in terms of timing really.

Nobody is saying it would not have been more ideal for her to come forward a lot sooner - obviously it would. Nobody is saying there is anything wrong with wondering why the hell she took so long for coming forward. But she is an abuse survivor so it is surely fair enough to consider that *that* is why she did not come forward.

It's not victim blaming I think, as that would be saying it was her fault she was abused, but it is deflection of blame from a hideous abuser to his victim.

It's not apparent that she is of questionable character - unless that is how an abuse survivor could be described.

Shurimgreat

Kamili wrote: »

She was threatened, abused, raped, strangled...

Do I need to go on?

Case closed so. Cooke did it. End of.

And that's where I check out of this thread.

wokingvoter

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Its in my posts. I don't feel I need to repeat them for you.

No. It's not in your posts. I've read them. You havnt made many. Just a simple statement, she is of "questionable character". And no you don't have to even answer my question. I just would like to know what drew you to that conclusion. We don't know very much about her. A very well respected counsellor told a national newspaper that she is a deeply traumatised victim of a paedophile. I don't believe there's any further information out there about her but you've heard enough to say she is of questionable character ?

Flippyfloppy

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Case closed so. Cooke did it. End of.

And that's where I check out of this thread.

Bye!

Kamili

Thanks for the broadsheet link, that is amazing. I didn't realise that the placing of the bag was in question, and that the Gardai may have not realised it was there for as long as it was..

Some of the things that Angela Copely has since said are very very very interesting..

Ms Copley subsequently contacted the Gardai to let them know that Cooke was dying and that they should interview him as soon as possible.

checked RIP.ie for Cooke too..

Chillingly no mention of his relations or family in his death notice, and it was published 3 days after he died.

Allyall

If nothing else, that Broadsheet article definitely highlights how connected the scumbag was.
A lot of weird things too.

Fleawuss

Dolbert wrote: »

Excellent article about some of the inconsistencies on Broadsheet:




http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/06/14/philip-cairns-and-a-trail-of-disinformation/

This. Why isn't there a clamour in the Dail for an inquiry or the involvement of GSOC at the least?

Allyall

I'm a bit confused as to the suspended sentence, after hearing he may lose £100,000 and his radio station might disappear.

So was the radio station legal then?
Even so, It seems like a ridiculous thing to bring up to the Judge.

Kamili

Also I am a bit confused as to why Angela Copely told the Gardai Cooke was in the hospice and that they might want to interview him before its too late.

That would suggest that they knew they needed to speak to him for whatever reason be it to simply question him not as a suspect, or that they already suspected him.

Neyite

Fleawuss wrote: »

This. Why isn't there a clamour in the Dail for an inquiry or the involvement of GSOC at the least?

What I find baffling is that the Gardai at the time were happy to tolerate a violent convicted criminal playing a version of cops 'n robbers with his blue light and police scanner to the point that he even got his own call sign from them.

To any young child, he would appear to be a bonafide policeman because of that. A child's logic is simple; policeman put people in jail if you don't do what they tell you or if you are bad. To them he was a cop. A very common ploy with abusers is to infer that they are well in with people in power and this man excelled at that - priests, IRA, Gardai and more probably

I imagine that benign tolerance of him by the Gardai facilitated a great deal of abuse of children because of the perceived power he would have had as a "cop"

So damn right GSOC should be in there finding out what the fcuk was going on at the time and finding out who the hell authorised it at the time.

brooke 2

Dolbert wrote: »

Excellent article about some of the inconsistencies on Broadsheet:




http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/06/14/philip-cairns-and-a-trail-of-disinformation/

Wow! So much information in that Broadsheet article.

The death of the young local sacristan a month after Philip Cairns' disappearance.
Found in a river in his underpants and vest, with his shirt stuffed into his mouth. Freaky.
Wonder how that Garda investigation went.

The accident in which James Connolly's wife was killed and he injured. He was a friend
of Mrs. Cairns and had put up an award of €10,000 for information in the case after he
had won €250,000. He maintained he had a good lot of Information but needed the final
pieces.

The denial of the Gardai that paedophiles had anything to do with the boy's disappearance
and also their statement that there were no ponds in the grounds of Loreto Abbey, Rathfarnham,
when apparently there were, as one part of it was known as The Ponds. A claim had been
made that Philip had been buried in the pond. Considering the boy's father seemed to believe
that paedophiles were involved in his son's disappearance, it is rather surprising that the Gardai
would not consider it.

Another thing from that article answered a question for me - what judge gave Cooke a suspended
sentence for arson? Would you believe it was Frank Roe? He of Fr. Niall Molloy fame, or, rather, infamy.

The more I read about this case, the more confused I get!!

stoplooklisten

brooke 2 wrote: »

Wow! So much information in that Broadsheet article.

The death of the young local sacristan a month after Philip Cairns' disappearance. Found in a river in his underpants and vest, with his shirt stuffed into his mouth. Freaky. Wonder how
that Garda investigation went.

The accident in which James Connolly's wife was killed and he injured. He was a friend of Mrs. Cairns and had put up an award of €10,000
for information in the case after he had won
€250,000. He maintained he had a good lot of
Information but needed the final pieces.

The denial of the Gardai that paedophiles had anything to do with the boy's disappearance and
also their statement that there were no ponds
in the grounds of Loreto Abbey, Rathfarnham,
when apparently there were, as one part of it was known as The Ponds. A claim had been made that Philip had been buried in the pond.
Considering the boy's father seemed to believe that paedophiles were involved in his son's disappearance, it is rather surprising that the Gardai would not consider it.

Another thing from that article answered a
question for me - what judge gave Cooke a suspended sentence for arson? Would you believe it was Frank Roe? He of Fr. Niall Molloy
fame, or, rather, infamy.

The more I read about this case, the more confused I get!!

That's a whole lot of accidents. I wonder how many other names will pop up again, and again

brooke 2

Allyall wrote: »

If nothing else, that Broadsheet article definitely highlights how connected the scumbag was.
A lot of weird things too.

Absolutely! Erecting the mast for FF in 1982 in
Colley's constituency and their denying it! Cliché
it may be, but you could not make up some of
the stuff in that article!

wokingvoter

Kamili wrote: »

Thanks for the broadsheet link, that is amazing. I didn't realise that the placing of the bag was in question, and that the Gardai may have not realised it was there for as long as it was..

Some of the things that Angela Copely has since said are very very very interesting..


checked RIP.ie for Cooke too..

Chillingly no mention of his relations or family in his death notice, and it was published 3 days after he died.

Telling really. Considering he was the father of 11 children.

Dolbert

Dolbert wrote: »

Excellent article about some of the inconsistencies on Broadsheet:




http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/06/14/philip-cairns-and-a-trail-of-disinformation/

This article just reads like lots of little tit bits of gossip that they dragged up from many different sources.
None of the ' reports' have links to where they came from.
The sacristan of another parish died in suspicious circumstances somewhere else around the time Phillip Cairns disappeared? Why would anyone just assume that has anything got to do with anything?

Sorry, but I really don't see anything in that article to suggest they have any actual information about anything relating to this case.

brooke 2

Allyall wrote: »

I'm a bit confused as to the suspended sentence, after hearing he may lose £100,000 and his radio station might disappear.

So was the radio station legal then?
Even so, It seems like a ridiculous thing to bring up to the Judge.

I was not surprised to read that the judge was Frank Roe who was
also the judge in the Fr. Niall Molloy case, in which Roe's pal, Richard
Flynn, walked. As we know, the family of the priest are still waiting for
justice, thirty plus years later.

nacho libre

Are people suggesting that Cooke might have had influential friends in important positions that were deviants like him?

Means Of Escape

nacho libre wrote: »

Are people suggesting that Cooke might have had influential friends in important positions that were deviants like him?

Very plausible
Lauded by the public,above suspicion ,drunk on their own power and exuding a bs charisma that will attract people of the same ilk to them and certainly some of those would be in powerful positions .

Cooke should have been pulled out of the hospital bed by the hair .

Kamili

Doesn't mean he did it though.. Timing of these allegations are suspect. He had no service or mass for his death, and just a plain burial in Glasnevin 4 days after he died. No family mentioned in his death notice.

He was a horrible human being, but it doesn't mean he did it. He very well may have but its almost like he's condemned without proof nor trial.

Like I said earlier in this thread, just hope its not pinned on the wrong person because its convenient to do so after his death.
If it wasn't him, the killer could still be alive and well killing others.

The whole way its been forced out after his death just doesn't sit right.