Liam Lawlor is dead

black_jack

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

No one is claiming he was a saint. He was definitely a man of questionable character however you say you are 'floored' by people here who don't wish to speak ill of the dead? It's simply showing respect.

Why what respect did he afford us? You're what in school or college? I'm a taxpayer, lawlor had screwed the entire country for decades. Thousands of irish men and women cannot afford homes in greater dublin thanks to him, thanks to him people are caught up in hours of traffic jams in the greater dublin area.

This is a man, who went to jail twice for refusing to discuss what he did as a democratic representive.....

The man has not been dead for 24 hours. Surely you could wait a while before you lash out at the man?

People have been lashing out aganist the man for a decade. You probably never bothered to watch his rank indifference to answering to questions to the irish media/ and tribunals about his actions as TD.

What about showing some respect for his family?

According to the front page of the Sindo he was killed witha Ukranian prostitute, so I submit according to the Sindo he didn't have much respect for his family, so why should I?

He's screwed every man woman and child on this isle, and didn't give a damn, and now I'm supposed to "be quiet" and not speak ill of the dead?

F*ck. And. That.

Too many of the great injustices of this country have occured because sssh it'd be disrespectful, or you can't talk ill of the church or government, or deV or whatever. Actually standing up and saying this man was immoral, or a crook or cheat or liar, is what this country needs and some tedious bullsh*t about affording a man who wouldn't give us the steam off his piss, while robbing us all blind, is an attitude that should only be dealt with a snort of contempt.

black_jack

TimAy wrote:

I can't see how anyone can think that a person actually deserves to die.

RIP

When did someone say he deserved to die? The irony being if he was were he deserved to be, Mountjoy, he'd not be dead.

MrJoeSoap

Once again well said Black Jack. ^

black_jack wrote:

When did someone say he deserved to die? The irony being if he was were he deserved to be, Mountjoy, he'd not be dead.

Never thought of it that way. Very interesting thought, that.

Prior Of Taize

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Uh, yeah. Says the guy with the Chief Wiggum avatar.:rolleyes:

I would have thought he meant your attitude in general instead of your avatar.

Mr. Nice Guy why dont you stay on topic and comment on his death as opposed to coming out guns blazing in regard to other peoples posts....

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Isnt it funny how people might have been complete assholes in life but as soon as they die (in the vast vast majority of cases i mean) everyone rolls out the sympathy.

I have no sympathy for the man. He ****ed up in life and had to deal with some of the consequences. Who gives a **** if he died unless you knew him/liked him. People are entitled to voice there opinion on his death if they want and thats why this thread was started up...

[Jackass]

I could not be more anti-Fina Fail. My entire life there has been absolute scum bag crooks out there in government, or in waiting, profiting off the public who pay their wages..their boss.

Liam lawlor was one of these major scumbags, that gave me so much pleasure seeing go to jail.

However i find it ****ing repulsive that anybody can take pleasure in death...especially in such tragic circumstances. He leaves behind people who loved him and they don't deserve to listen to this crap.

I hope, in the most sincerest honesty and absolute truth, that at least one of you who posted the disgracefull comments about this man deserving this kind of death finds your brother/sister/mother/father/wife/husband dead in the morning.

Please post it here. I wish to point out to you all their obvious faults, call them a scum bag...probably hassle you for a while, then brand you with stigma for the rest of your life.

Shame on you, and i hope you experience someone you love suffering an untimely death. :mad:

MrJoeSoap

DubGuy wrote:

I could not be more anti-Fina Fail. My entire life there has been absolute scum bag crooks out there in government, or in waiting, profiting off the public who pay their wages..their boss.

Liam lawlor was one of these major scumbags, that gave me so much pleasure seeing go to jail.

However i find it ****ing repulsive that anybody can take pleasure in death...especially in such tragic circumstances. He leaves behind people who loved him and they don't deserve to listen to this crap.

I hope, in the most sincerest honesty and absolute truth, that at least one of you who posted the disgracefull comments about this man deserving this kind of death finds your brother/sister/mother/father/wife/husband dead in the morning.

Please post it here. I wish to point out to you all their obvious faults, call them a scum bag...probably hassle you for a while, then brand you with stigma for the rest of your life.

Shame on you, and i hope you experience someone you love suffering an untimely death. :mad:

I totally agree that it is wrong to say anyone deserves to die, but your argument here REEKS of hypocrisy. Can you please post a link to the people you are referring to taking "pleasure" in his death? I'm too tired to look through the first page.

MrJoeSoap

The Sunday Independent article:

CIARAN BYRNE,

JODY CORCORAN and

NICK PATON-WALSH

in MOSCOW

LIAM LAWLOR, the controversial former Fianna Fail politician, was killed yesterday in a high-speed crash in Moscow in the company of a teenage girl described by police as "likely to be a prostitute", the Sunday Independent can reveal.

The 61-year-old was travelling from a red-light district towards Moscow with a Ukrainian girl when his hired Mercedes spun out of control at 1am Moscow time.

A spokesman for the Moscow police department told the Sunday Independent that no other vehicle was involved and that it appeared excessive speed was the main factor in the crash.

The vehicle, driven by a chauffeur, struck a concrete bollard on the Leningradskoye highway in the suburb of Khimki, which Moscow police said was a well-known pick-up point for prostitutes.

Mr Lawlor, always a colourful character and regularly described as a "likeable rogue", was in the passenger seat when the collision occurred.

He and his chauffeur, named as a Mr Sulemann, were killed instantly, while the girl, who was in the back seat of the car, escaped with minor injuries.

Moscow police yesterday said: "The woman had no passport and said she was not a close friend of the Irish man. She is a girl and it seems they met on the street and it is therefore likely she was a prostitute."

That the former TD, from Lucan, Dublin, died in the company of a woman likely to be a prostitute will only serve to add to the sense of danger and controversy which always accompanied his entwined political and business careers.

News of his death caused deep shock in political and business circles throughout Ireland when it emerged at around noon yesterday.At Fianna Fail's Ard Fheis in Killarney, the Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern said he was "shocked" to learn of the untimely death and extended his heartfelt sympathy to Mr Lawlor's wife Hazel, his children, family and friends.

The Taoiseach said: "Liam was an engaging, witty and a larger-than-life character. He

ANALYSIS

was also a man with a keen intellect and strong views that he was never afraid to articulate trenchantly. Outside the rough and tumble of political activity, he was extremely popular with his parliamentary colleagues across thepolitical boards."

There was no immediate comment from Mr Lawlor's old adversary, Feargus Flood.

But the Mahon tribunal, of which Mr Justice Flood is a former chairman, is now deprived of one of its most crucial witnesses. Indeed, his death may hasten the end of the tribunal, something which Mr Lawlor's friends were last night wistfully speculating would have amused the former politician.

In 1999 and 2001, Mr Lawlor served two separate one-week terms of three-month sentences for contempt of court arising out of his dealings with the tribunal. In 2002, he served a month for failure to comply with a tribunal and respond to its requests to disclose documents and information.

Khimki, from where Mr Lawlor was travelling, is a well-known haunt of prostitutes. Mr Lawlor died on the Leningradskoye highway, which has recently seen mass demonstrations by local residents, students and pensioners to banish the prostitutes who traditionally gather along it at night.

A police spokesman in Moscow told the Sunday Independent last night: "There was no luggage in the car so it is not the case that the car was coming from the airport. It was coming form the area of Khimki which is known as an area where businessmen pick up women."

Russia has become a mecca for Irish business figures who have flocked to the former Soviet state to develop multi-million euro property and business ventures.

Mr Lawlor himself was engaged in various business activities in Prague, in the Czech Republic, and was involved in plans to develop a shopping complex in the city.

Doing business in Russia can be difficult for outsiders who rely on a network of contacts to make introductions and it is likely that Lawlor had already made contacts there.

The death of Mr Lawlor, who celebrated his 61st birthday last Wednesday, stunned the world of Irish politics last night and brings to a tragic end the life a man scarred by scandal and disgrace.

The former TD's three sons, Niall, Shane and Gerald, were on their way home from the United States last night to join Liam Lawlor's wife Hazel and daughter Ciara at the family home in Lucan, west Dublin.

In a statement last night, the Lawlor family said they were "overwhelmed" by the kind sympathy they have received from home and abroad.

Friends and neighbours in Lucan expressed disbelief that the former TD had died in Russia in such bizarre circumstances.

Police in Moscow believe Lawlor's car had travelled to the Moscow suburb of Khimki and was returning to the centre of the Russian capital when the crash happened.

Mr Lawlor was sitting in the passenger seat of the car while the girl sat alone in the back. "The driver lost control of the car and struck a concrete baton on the right hand side of the road. As a result the driver was killed as was Lawlor, Liam, born 1944."

Yesterday, Frank Dunlop, the former lobbyist who delivered damning testimony against his erstwhile friend, Mr Lawlor, at the Flood tribunal, was shocked to learn of the TD's death yesterday afternoon.

He told the Sunday Independent: "I am just totally shocked, absolutely shocked by the news. That life should end so tragically, so far away. I can't imagine what Hazel and the family are going through. I am absolutely tremendously shocked. I don't want to say any more."

The Taoiseach, Mr Ahern added: "I have known Liam Lawlor since we were both first elected to Dail Eireann in the General Election of 1977.

"In his youth, Liam was well known as a hurler of some renown and he represented Dublin and Leinster with distinction. He followed the route travelled by a number of many prominent GAA stars and swapped the playing pitches for political life.

"Liam was elected as a TD for the constituency of Dublin West and during a 25-year career in politics, he was an assiduous worker on behalf of his constituents. In volatile political times in the Eighties, Liam lost his seat on two occasions but each time regained it in the following election. Liam announced his retirement from politics prior to the General Election in 2002.

"At this difficult time, my thoughts are with Hazel and all Liam's family especially his daughter, Ciara, who worked with me during my time as leader of the Opposition."

The Fine Gael leader, Enda Kenny, expressed his "deepest sympathy" to the family of the former TD.

"On behalf of the Fine Gael Party, I extend my deepest sympathy to Liam Lawlor's wife Hazel and their children," Mr Kenny said.

The Tanaiste, Mary Harney said it was with "great regret" that she had learned today of the sudden death.

"To lose his life in an accident so far from home, represents a terrible tragedy for his family and friends," Ms Harney said. She also expressed her sincere sympathy to Mr Lawlor's widow Hazel and to their four children.

Badly Drunk Boy

DubGuy wrote:

I could not be more anti-Fina Fail. My entire life there has been absolute scum bag crooks out there in government, or in waiting, profiting off the public who pay their wages..their boss.

Liam lawlor was one of these major scumbags, that gave me so much pleasure seeing go to jail.

However i find it ****ing repulsive that anybody can take pleasure in death...especially in such tragic circumstances. He leaves behind people who loved him and they don't deserve to listen to this crap.

I hope, in the most sincerest honesty and absolute truth, that at least one of you who posted the disgracefull comments about this man deserving this kind of death finds your brother/sister/mother/father/wife/husband dead in the morning.

Please post it here. I wish to point out to you all their obvious faults, call them a scum bag...probably hassle you for a while, then brand you with stigma for the rest of your life.

Shame on you, and i hope you experience someone you love suffering an untimely death. :mad:

Saying that he deserved to die is a bit strong, but saying nice things about about an obvious scumbag is wrong. I don't take pleasure in his death. But the world won't be a worse place from him leaving it...

Even Bertie Ahern's comment's were telling, but honest. He said that Lawlor was an "engaging, witty and larger than life character. He added that he was a man with a keen intellect with strong views, which he was never afraid to articulate trenchantly." Not that he was a nice guy, or owt...

And the Aertel news from the start said that there was a Ukranian woman in the taxi.


So...where exactly was this respect earned???



Sympathy to the family, but as said before, he didn't seem to have too much respect for them.....

besty

RIP
condolences to his wife and children

Hagar

I understand some poster's wish to respect the feelings of his widow and children.

He never showed much respect for his wife and family.
How will they ever live down their father first being locked up a few times then dying with a whore in his car? Was that the first whore he ever picked up? Has he being doing it all his married life? Has he risked the health of his wife and family by bringing unspeakable dieseases into the home? He has shamed his family.

We are only expressing our indignation at his shameful actions.

i71jskz5xu42pb

MrJoeSoap wrote:

I really do feel sorry for the family, but if these Independent allegations are true (and I do believe they are), he showed very little respect for his own family.

They are the real victims in this. .....

His family have presumably lived off the fat of his corruption all their lives. While I am sympathetic to their loss, I do not go with the whole 'they are the innocent victims in all this' line.

nesf

People seem to be confusing respect earned by him and the respect we should show his family.

Saying RIP and offering condolances to his family is not saying something nice about him, it is the basic level of courtesy that one should afford his family. The saying, "If you cannot say something nice say nothing at all" springs to mind.

gonker

He was just the one that was caught the "fall guy" if you like as far as I can see they are all as corrupt as each other.


Condolences to his wife and family.

secret_squirrel

I have absolutely no emotional reaction to his death. Im utter indifferent to it on that level. I take neither pleasure or sadness in it, although the circumstances seem to be heading in the direction of irony pretty fast. A dishonouorable life and a dishonourable death seem quite apt.

If his family are innocents in his whole life and had no involvment in his dodgy dealings then they have my condolences.

If however (as I believe) they must have had at least some knowledge of what he has been up to then they get nothing from me - not even my respect.

nlgbbbblth

^CwAzY^ wrote:

Karma in my opinion.
What goes around comes around.

He would have died anyway. We all die.

Shabadu

Imagine for a moment that he *didn't* die in the crash- but rather was only injured. Imagine how different everyone's reaction would be. He was in the car with a teenage prostitute. I feel that we are entitled to question his moral standing.

I'm grateful that the girl survived.

Hagar

I hope she got her money up front.:D

WhiteWashMan

i feel the best thing to do at times like this is to sit in the corner of a darkened room.

danniemcq

DubGuy wrote:

Shame on you, and i hope you experience someone you love suffering an untimely death. :mad:

bit harsh? i mean as it was (kinda!) mentioned before if this was an anti Pol Pot thread or whatever you wouldn't see a single good word about him.

i know he wasn't as bad as pol pot i mean he didn't kill hundreds of thousands but he robbed from pretty much every single person in Ireland for years and brought the whole political system here to the glorious standard we have today :rolleyes:

i fell sorry for the family cause i know what they are going through but for liam... it's up to God

BuffyBot

The saying, "If you cannot say something nice say nothing at all" springs to mind.

Indeed. Alas some people lack the ability to seperate him and his actions from what has happened to his family.

astrofool

The real tragedy here is that a driver and a teenage girl died.

Lawlor, he got off lightly in the grand scheme of things.

whiskeyman

To those that knew him or his family, you may have sympathy to give.
To the rest of us, ask yourself if it had to take this mans death for us to talk more and find out about him.
What good is it doing?
Does it feel good now that he's gone?
If anything, blame the system currently in place in this country that allows such men into power and use their corruption to their own gain.
I despised Liam Lawlor, but I despised the system that brought him into power even more.
That's the real problem here.

MrJoeSoap

astrofool wrote:

The real tragedy here is that a driver and a teenage girl died.

The girl didn't die.

John R

nesf wrote:

The saying, "If you cannot say something nice say nothing at all" springs to mind.

If that were practiced boards would be a very quiet place indeed.


The saying that came to my mind was "good riddance to bad rubbish".

I will happily offer sympathy to his wife and kids just as soon as they offer up the numbered bank accounts of all the misappropriated public money and bribes Liam recieved for selling out the country.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

The girl didn't die.

Indeed. Sounds like she had a lucky escape, both from a horrific car crash and the even more horrific prospect of having to pleasure that putrid piece of human scum.

besty

There's no excuse for some of the newspaper coverage of this story today. The man's family have to bury him this week and the papers are runnning stories on him being in the red light district with a 20 year old prostitute. Even if this sort of **** sells papers, it is hardly the time to drag a dead man's name through the mud the day after his family lost their father - no matter what he may have done in the past.

Mr.Nice Guy

black_jack wrote:

Why what respect did he afford us? You're what in school or college? I'm a taxpayer, lawlor had screwed the entire country for decades. Thousands of irish men and women cannot afford homes in greater dublin thanks to him, thanks to him people are caught up in hours of traffic jams in the greater dublin area.

You think all that's down to him? Are you for real man? You honestly think he is the only corrupt politician amongst the ranks of Fianna Fail? Why don't you blame him for global warming as well.:rolleyes:

black_jack wrote:

This is a man, who went to jail twice for refusing to discuss what he did as a democratic representive.....

Your point being that he deserved to die in a car crash?

black_jack wrote:

People have been lashing out aganist the man for a decade. You probably never bothered to watch his rank indifference to answering to questions to the irish media/ and tribunals about his actions as TD.

I'm well aware of the man's faults. My household is not pro-Fianna Fail by any means.

black_jack wrote:

According to the front page of the Sindo he was killed witha Ukranian prostitute, so I submit according to the Sindo he didn't have much respect for his family, so why should I?

What a horrendous thing to say. You are a hypocrite. You stand on the moral high ground and berate Lawlor and then have the audacity to say 'he didn't have much respect for his family, so why should I?' Shameful.

black_jack wrote:

He's screwed every man woman and child on this isle, and didn't give a damn, and now I'm supposed to "be quiet" and not speak ill of the dead?

Well some people just do not have it in their moral fibre to gloat at a man's demise and show scant regard to the deceased person's family.

black_jack wrote:

Too many of the great injustices of this country have occured because sssh it'd be disrespectful, or you can't talk ill of the church or government, or deV or whatever.

On this thread we've had references to serial killers, Nazis and now the church. Whatever next? Islamic extremists?

black_jack wrote:

Actually standing up and saying this man was immoral, or a crook or cheat or liar, is what this country needs and some tedious bullsh*t about affording a man who wouldn't give us the steam off his piss, while robbing us all blind, is an attitude that should only be dealt with a snort of contempt.

No, the real bullsh*t is spewing from the mouths of people like yourself who judge this man for all the bad things he did in his life and then when has life has ended, you can't be the bigger man and actually show the smallest ounce of respect (even for his family in your case). That is the kind of attitude we should treat with contempt.

black_jack wrote:

When did someone say he deserved to die?

How many examples do you want?:

Hagar wrote:

I'd like to say how sorry I am at Mr. Lawlor's death, but I have never lied to you before and I'm not starting now.

Hagar wrote:

Fúck him, he lived his life at my expense.

Prior of Taize wrote:

He ****ed up in life and had to deal with some of the consequences. Who gives a **** if he died unless you knew him/liked him.

You will also find numerous 'jokes' at the man's expense on the first and second pages of the thread.

nesf wrote:

People seem to be confusing respect earned by him and the respect we should show his family.

Saying RIP and offering condolances to his family is not saying something nice about him, it is the basic level of courtesy that one should afford his family. The saying, "If you cannot say something nice say nothing at all" springs to mind.

Very well said.

black_jack

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

You think all that's down to him? Are you for real man? You honestly think he is the only corrupt politician amongst the ranks of Fianna Fail? Why don't you blame him for global warming as well.:rolleyes:

Lawlor was up to his neck in political double dealings and backhanders. Like I said you're obviously in college or school and aren't up to speed on the mans history. You've a pathetic habit of misrepresenting the arguments of the person you're arguing with. I'd have the same reaction of Rambo Burke, Haughey or any of that group. Lawlor was just one of the worst.

Your point being that he deserved to die in a car crash?

Where did I say he deserved to die? Pin point exactly where I said that. Go on I dare you. Motherf*cking double dare you to quote Samuel L jackson. I never said such a thing. I just think making some false platitute about him after his death is hypocracy of the highest order.

I'm well aware of the man's faults. My household is not pro-Fianna Fail by any means.

yeah, and right. In that order.

What a horrendous thing to say. You are a hypocrite. You stand on the moral high ground and berate Lawlor and then have the audacity to say 'he didn't have much respect for his family, so why should I?' Shameful.

Do you know what the word hyprocrite means? I mean really? How exactly am I a hyprocrite? Am I telling us we shouldn't speak ill of a man "out of respect for his family" when the man himself had so little respect for his family he was yet again out galavanting with a teenage prostitute.

Well some people just do not have it in their moral fibre to gloat at a man's demise and show scant regard to the deceased person's family.

Gosh yes, and somepeople have so little honesty in them that they'll act all two faced, two days ago lawlor couldn't get a kind word spoken to him, but now since his tragic death we're supposed to ignore his greed duplicity and dishonesty and make with the nicey nicey. Thats hyprocricy.

On this thread we've had references to serial killers, Nazis and now the church. Whatever next? Islamic extremists?

And again you clueless muppet when did I reference serial killers Nazis? I was merely pointing out this country's charmless habit of ignoring wrongdoings because we dare not upset our holy cows.

No, the real bullsh*t is spewing from the mouths of people like yourself who judge this man for all the bad things he did in his life and then when has life has ended, you can't be the bigger man and actually show the smallest ounce of respect (even for his family in your case). That is the kind of attitude we should treat with contempt.

And the faux decency and struggling to find a good word is dishonest and lacks spine and backbone.

You're the of ilk of the "moral" and the "honest" and the "good" who's kind has made out well from Lawlor's doings, now sush, lets not speak ill of the dead.

Lawlor's death means the flood tribunal will wrap up early, this is the kind of thinking your argument personifys. Sure he's dead now, we can't talk ill of him.

As for the bulls*it argument that we should be respectful to his family, again killed in a car with a teenage prostitute. What respect did he afford his own?

And by the way, laughbly not a single one of the quotes you've provided includes the words "Liam", "Lawlor", "deserved", "to", "die".

Mispresenting what other people say appears to be the only weapon at your disposal.

Hagar

@ Mr Nice Guy -
Quote me all you want, I only say what I believe is true, I'm not a hypocrite like he was.

kstanl

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Your point being that he deserved to die in a car crash?

Yeah, anyone that has a bad word to say against Lawlor obviously feels that he deserved to die. :rolleyes: By your same distracted logic, I could accuse you of advocating extra-marital affairs with prostitutes, political corruption and theft. Seriously, if you're going to join the debate stop accusing people of things they didn't say without any evidence to back up. You're just embarrassing yourself.

Liam Lawlor died like he lived... trying to screw vulnerable people. Do I feel he deserved to die for his crimes? Of course not. Do I feel any sympathy for him? A bit yes. It's not a nice way to die. But at the end of the day, let's call a spade and spade: he was a f**king scumbag who stole from us all and who, it turns out, may have been humping diseased whores behind his wife's back.

black_jack

kstanl wrote:

out, may have been humping diseased whores behind his wife's back.

Now thats offensive, describing a child most likely the victim of trafficing, and forced into it as a "diseased whore"