Veronica Mars Season 2

iguana

I have a theory on who sent the 'kill in coporation or else' email to Woody.

We know that a third person was edited out of the audio attachment, and Veronica and Keith are assuming that person was Lucky, and that following that email threat Woody blew up the bus in order to eliminate Peter and Marcos.

But Woody had not made his incorporation plans public at that time, so it was unlikely that this email was sent before the bus crash. My guess is that the email sender was Beaver. He was the third person in the conversation and he wanted to stop the incorporation because his and Kendall's company was buying up a lot of property in an area of neptune that would have been rendered worthless if the incorporation was successful.

I'm probably reaching, but I'm starting to think that Woody didn't blow up the bus and it is a red herring to put us off tommorow's (Wednesday's for us) big revelation. Also why was Veronica's name on Curly Moran's hand if Woody blew up the bus?

corblimey

I agree with iguana. Beaver is the edited out person in the recording and he sent the mail to Woody to stop the incorporation strictly for monetary reasons, as in quit that incorporation stuff or i'll go to the police with this. I'm not entirely sure why he was edited out though.

I think the whole Woody thing is a red herring. He probably is a paedo but I don't believe he blew up the bus.

Was Aaron even in the picture with Lily's murder at this point last season - wasn't it a complete surprise when he popped up in the frame? I don't remember, but I think it's going to be someone we've never even suspected, and for some reason that's been there all along but not highlighted the way the paedo thing has.

digiman

Just watched the last episode if the series there and it was brilliant, to be honest I did not see any of it coming.

Cassidy was the mastermind of it all, made a lot of sense in the end, fair play to however it was on here that figured that out!! I knew Veronica's dad was going to be on the plane, and the only bit of the episode tha let me down was when Veronica realised that here Dad was alive, just didnt seem right the way it was done. Nice to see Duncan back into to show that he had got Aaron killed.

Just something from the episode that makes it look like it will be back for a third season, I took this from someone of tv.com, Do not read unless you have seen the episode.

Did everyone miss it? Am I the only one who heard it?

Duncan: CW?
Clarence Weedman(CW): It\' s a done deal.

Does anyone else see what that means?

The CW!! It\'s a done deal.

That means Veronica is definitely getting another season. It's a DONE DEAL.

It has to be that simply because why else would Duncan have answered the phone that way. When confirming an assassination maybe addressing the murderer by his initials isn\'t such a good idea, unless his initials happen to be the same as the station considering the show\'s renewal.

Great stuff and I really hope that they make a 3rd series.

tvnutz

Now this is TV at its best! Brilliant finale!

And I'll also admit I saw none of it coming.

Beaver was the mastermind of the whole thing? Who could have guessed that mid-way through the season? Just like in season 1,who would have guessed Aaron was Lily's killer? Thats a reason this show is so great.

So the innocent looking Beaver blew up the bus,killed Curly,blew up a plan with Woody and a load of other people on it and nearly killed Veronica and Logan. He has bene busy. He also raped Veronica last season,nice conclusion to that story and it seems they had it planend from the start of this season. Veronica got a sexually transmitted disease and didn't know where it was from. Makes sense now

You kind of have to feel sorry for him in a way,even if he is a mass killer. He was molested as a kid and didn't know how to deal with it,and certaintly didn't want it coming out.Then he kills himself.He was smart though,with his property deals and making $8million.I have to say the actor who plays him was very good.

Speaking of the $8million,its now Kendalls and she has a propostion for Keith,another potentially good storyline for next year,however it doesn't seem like Keith would just leave Veronica waiting at the airport,maybe he will show up.

And how about that other twist? Duncan having Aaron killed!Did not see that coming either,great writing.

So thats it for another season,and another great finale. Maybe not as good as season 1 overall but still better than the majority of stuff on tv,and yet no one is watching? Lets hope we get another season and the CW can raise the ratings.

iguana

I might as well stick it all in spoilers;

As someone said on TWOP; 'Wow, that was like several mediocre fanfics come to life...' That was really stupid, a complete re-write of several of the characters. Sure we would never have seen it coming, because it wasn't coming. Whether RT had intended this to happen at the end of the season or not is unclear. But it sure as hell wasn't written or played that way. I feel incredibly let down by this .

tvnutz

I disagree,while it may not have been planned all season,it nonetheless made sense,and everything fitted together. I thought it was a great finale.

iguana

And some other things-

- Are we for 1 minute supposed to believe that someone as clued in as Veronica would not have gotten a complete STD check 3-6 months after she believed she was raped? I mean come on!

- Who set up Terrance? Did Beaver randomly decide to set him up, and then the gods smile on him so the guy he randomly sets up had a possible motive as he was being stalked by the teacher? Or did Beaver magically know the secrets of all the teachers and pro-baseball players in Neptune?

- The 'Keith being alive' reveal was so cheesely done. As if Keith wouldn't have heard about the plane crash and immediately called/woken Veronica to let her know he was alive.

And there are loads more, but right now I have to go eat some BranFlakes as there is not enough fibre in my being to cover how much I hate this episode:mad: .

Smurfpiss

it was a bit of an iffy episode.

having cassidy as the killer was a nice twist, but kinda out of character. i knew keith wasnt dead but they could have resolved it better..
and i really dont see why duncan would have aaron killed, even if justice wasnt served i was kinda hoping that he, woody and kendall were all somehow linked, new evidence would come to light etc etc and he'd finally get convicted. i suppose this way it ended that storyline..but not really. i mean, is that gonna be next seasons mystery? does anyone care who killed him? i mean, even logan was taking it surprisingly well.

nice to see keith letting veronica down for a change. the love story between wallace and yer wan was a bit soppy in the end..

ah i dunno. it wasnt a bad episode but it was a bit convoluted. overall i rate the series quite highly, but it dropped a few points cause of that finale.

Basq

Episode was very very mehhhhh!

Did guess Beaver was the killer a couple of days back.. simply a process of elimination. Eliminate the red herrings and major characters it will not be the end of and you were left with essentially Dick or Beaver. And Dick's too forward and dense to be involved with that.

What i didn't like - the tacky dream sequence to bring back past characters. Gah.. pointless and wasted 5 minutes of a crucial season finale on it.

And also, we finished the rape storyline a year ago and to just bring it back a full season later (or a season and an episode to be precise) was just daft.

Agree with iguana also regarding Keith. The reveal could have been done so much better..

Kyle Gallner was excellent though.. he really did bring the psycho to life.

This season can not compare to the first season - c'mon, the thrilling last half of the season finale with Logan and Veronica finding the tape, Aaron hiding in the back of the car, the fight between Aaron and Keith, the cliffhanger of who was at the door for an entire summer.. :eek:

Compare it to this season.. relatively little in the way of cliffhangers - will Keith show up to the airport? Excuse me but who gives a flying feck?

And the Aaron Echolls murder was just too much outta nowhere - bring back Clarence Weidman and Duncan into the storyline 2 minutes from the end of season.

One question - after Veronica and Logan find Mac in the room lying against the wall? She said Beaver took her clothes.. why? Never mind.. just figured it out as i was typing it - to stop her from going outside to look for him.. silly me!

Anyways.. season finale gets a generous 2.5 / 5. And i'd give the season as a whole while it has highpoints has it's fair share of lowpoints.. 3 / 5.

PS - shame Lamb's a gonner now!

herobear

an article about how fans are trying to ensure the show gets picked up for a 3rd season on the CW:
http://www.medialifemagazine.com/artman/publish/article_4607.asp.
and a whole livejournal community on news regarding that group can be found
@ http://community.livejournal.com/cloud_watchers/

and some articles regarding 'not pictured':
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Ausiello/AskAusiello/
spoilers for the finale, mild spoilers for S3 stuff (there is a lot of stuff about next season's characters and casting, so if you don't want to know that you shouldn't read, and if you haven't seen "Not Pictured" you definitely shouldn't).

also, this blog has some interesting stuff from Rob on when he planned who did the bus crash and stuff, obviously totally spoils "Not Pictured": http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2006/05/veronica-mars-whodunnit.html

those may answer a lot of questions/gripes people had about the Finale

Basq

I think it's pretty much guaranteed to be back for a third season..

.. i'd be extremely suprised if it wasn't renewed to be honest.

herobear

yeah at this stage, most people are pretty confident it'll be back, the focus now is on getting the ratings up, they[the cloud watchers group] are trying to donate dvd boxsets to libraries in areas across the U.S. in which CW will be aired, but UPN currently isnt. in order so that come season 3, people will have access to the show and be able to play catch up, that along with media coverage(see the first link in my above post) will hopefully bring up the ratings, dont forget, season 2 had abysmal ratings, even by UPN standards, which has tiny viewership and doesnt air in ALOT of market areas in the U.S.
thankfully CW will have a MUCH bigger viewership and a higher quality of shows, as it combines the best shows of both UPN & the WB into one Network.

oh and did everyone notice the shoutout in 'not pictured' ?

'Duncan: CW?
Clarence Weidman: Its a done deal'
looks like Rob Thomas, is pretty confident it'll be back

BuffyBot

I think it's pretty much guaranteed to be back for a third season..

I think the announcment is due next Thursday.

Basq

Indeed it is, BuffyBot!

Am hoping Tina Majorino becomes a regular character next season as i see Rob Thomas is trying to negotiate a deal. She really does steal the scenes she's in - both her and Vinny Van Lowe ('the whole enchilada') - that guy cracks me up!

Not to mention trying to get Michael Cera and Alia Shawkat for a few more appearances too.

EDIT: Whoa whoa whoa.. from TV Guide Article:

Ausiello: Any other cast changes in the works?

Rob: It's in the negotiation stage to make Sheriff Lamb (Michael Muhney) and Mac (Tina Majorino) series regulars. But that's pending a deal happening.

I thought Lamb was on the plane with Woody.. wasn't he? He told Keith to get off as it'll look bad for him to arrive to the media coverage with Woody. He couldn't have survived that explosion, could he?

iguana

basquille wrote:

Ausiello: Any other cast changes in the works?

Rob: It's in the negotiation stage to make Sheriff Lamb (Michael Muhney) and Mac (Tina Majorino) series regulars. But that's pending a deal happening.

I thought Lamb was on the plane with Woody.. wasn't he? He told Keith to get off as it'll look bad for him to arrive to the media coverage with Woody. He couldn't have survived that explosion, could he?

No Lamb would have been in Neptune. He would have had no reason to go to Reno, he just phoned the Reno sheriff and told him not to let Keith on the plane.

Which is another thing. - I'm not an expert but I can't believe they would have flown Woody back on his plane. Surely the cops would have wanted to search his plane for evidence. If it was to be sent back to Neptune it would have been seperately of Woody. And as only days ago a bomb was found in his car they just might have wanted to check his plane too before flying it in the sky of what may be the most aviation paranoid country in the world.

madrab

yeah i fell pretty let down by this episode, its mostly the same points that have been said

it just felt sloppy, and what was the deal with

vm & logan getting back together again & being all happy, a couple of days after thinking that your dad was dead, finding out you were raped, & nearly being killed it just didnt seem good. poor mac, it seemed like beaver did more than just take her clothes but they never said anymore. And where was this seasons cliffhanger?

ahh well roll on season 3

tvnutz

I agree with the keith being alive revelation not being done properly,but other than that I really didn't have a problem.

As for the cliffhanger basquille,yes it wasn't anything really great,but neither was last years. Who is at the door? Who cares!? Thats the OC side of things,I like Logan as a character but I really don't care who veronica hooks up with.

As for the STD thing,Veronica may not have had tests because she was to traumatised maybe? Or embarrassed? Lamb did basically laugh in her face when she reported the rape,made her feel like nothing had happened to her.

It wasn't as god as last year's finale,which Id give 10/10,but I really enjoyed this years and Id give it 7.5 maybe 8/10.

iguana

And what was the deal with Lucky? Was Beaver using him to plant the bombs or was he independantly stalking the Goodmans and Veronica just jumped to conclusions when she saw the presents reference.

- And how the hell did Beaver convince the PCHers that Curly had planted the bomb? They were hardly going to listen to him due to the class warfare which was supposed to be rife at the time. And Weevil would have been pretty suspicious that he was being set up.

- And how much explosives did Curly give him?

I've read that RT had planned on Beaver being the series 2 killer since his introduction in series 1. I think this could have worked if they had made him a tragic character who got caught up in events beyond his control rather than an evil mastermind.

If in season 1 they had Beaver as a genuine good guy, ignored by his parents,constantly teased by his brother and abused by his little league coach. He never raped Veronica, as was originally the story, he thought he did the right thing by leaving her there. But then he learns that by leaving her there she was raped, and her hurt over this makes him feel guilty. But also angry at Woody, for helping make him the type of person who would let that happen.

So by the end of the summer Beaver, Marcos and Peter plan a scare campaign against Woody, perhaps something like blowing up his car as he gets out of it, as they aren't killers. They plan to plant the bomb while on the school trip but either Peter or Marcos don't get the chance and a pissed off Beaver gets Dick to suggest they take a limo home as he doesn't want to ride with the other two. Unfortunately Beaver's expertise was in making small film explosions and his attempt at an actual bomb was unstable. So it blows up killing the others but Beaver wasn't on the bus and survived. This would have left Beaver even more tortured and desperate.

Then he could have genuinely been trying to expose Kendall in order to gain approval from his father, which he needed more than ever now. But instead of the dodgy REITs he could have exposed his dad's tax fraud and left his dad penniless and behind bars. Beaver and Dick have trust funds from their mother and Beaver decides to use his in order to make the money to help his dad. He has Kendall as named owner of his company as 1 he is too young and 2 even if she decided to keep it all for herself under California state law his father, as her husband, is entitled to half. In the process he meets Mac and falls for her. His love for her and plans to help his dad are making him feel happy. He has a happy few months.

Then he discovers, as he did in 'the quick and the wed', that Woody's incorporation plans will leave his investments worthless and he really starts to crack. Along with this, his inability to take things further with Mac and the fact that she told Veronica cause him to dump her and he blames Woody.

Woody has abused him, caused him to kill eight people and is now ruining his chances to save his dad. So he decides to blackmail him. To make things worse Hart is the one who makes the connection between Beaver and the bus explosion and he confronts him. So Beaver kills him and dumps his body where Woody used to abuse them. (Because it is more realistic than him killing Curly and also the boys body being discovered there sets Lucky off).

Beaver is now at the point of no return. Everything else was accidental and ultimately forgivable, but the weight of everything caused him to choose to kill at which point there is no coming back for him. However Woody uses Keith to stop incorporation and Beaver knows why. This leaves him feeling powerful and in control. He has dealt with his problems, reversed his victim/abuser role with Woody and made a fortune. He gets back together with Mac, and is obviously more confident with her. Lucky has been stalking the Goodmans, causing the Marses to finger him as a child abusing bus bomber and Woody is on the run. Everything is coming together for Beaver and he books a room with Mac for her graduation.

Then, as happened, on his way to the room Corny tells him Keith caught Woody and his confidence starts to crumble. He and Mac have 15 second sex, which is what I think happened in the episode. When he sees Veronica's message to Mac he fixates on her as the root of his problems. Last year she falsly accused him of rape, which triggered his causing the bus crash, she exposed his dad, Mac talked to her about their sex problems, her dad caught Woody and made him have crap sex with Mac and now she knows his secrets.

He goes to meet Veronica who has cartoon villain ideas about him. He tells her what really happened, but that he is now going to kill her. HE UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES BLOWS UP A PLANE. He tries to kill her, plans to blame Aaron, Logan stops him, he decides to kill himself. Logan can't think of a reason why he shouldn't, he says 'my name is Cassidy' he jumps. (Kyle Gallner is a great actor and could easily have pulled off the subtle changes from victim to sociopath if it had been properly written.)

Right, so as far as I'm concerned that's what happened. I feel less angry now.:cool:

tvnutz

Right....taking the show a little too seriously there mate if you are re-writing the entire season!

I'm sure the killers at Columbine were victims or bullying etc,but turned out to be sociopaths and murdered a load of people. Its not too far of a stretch for Beaver to be a nutter. The fact that people wouldn't even call him by his real name no matter how many times he asked them to would send him over the edge-it would if it was me

iguana

Um first off you might want to put spoiler tags on your last comment. Saying Beaver is a sociopath and linking him with killers kind of gives the plot away. Just in case someone hadn't seen the episode.

Yeah but the killers at Columbine snapped and killed people. They didn't spend a year and a half plotting a mass murder just to kill two people. While previously having recorded those two people so they could use them for blackmailing purposes. And manipulate a local biker gang into helping kill the one guy who could expose them, and secretly sitting around to finish the job, all the while never letting the biker gang know who they were. Then plotting the downfall of their father just so they could free up a trust fund early to make their millions, while blackmailing their abuser.

I totally buy that Beaver could go from being tortured victim to sociopath. But the execution of the idea was appalling. They turned him into the worst kind of cartoon villain. The ending was like an amped up Scooby-doo denouement (perhaps another Buffy shout-out). This should have been heart-breaking and Gallner certainly seemed to have the talent to pull that off. But instead he went from being tortured-lovable Beaver, into EVOL Beaver; of the Purple Eye-Shadow of DOOM, in the space of one text message.

It seems to me that RT was so pleased with himself for coming up with the 'Beaver is killer' season ending, that he didn't really bother to make it convincing. The whole of season two is flawed, but the idea was good and it could have been great.

And I'm out of work with a back injury. Watching TV and ranting online are my only pleasures.:o

ixoy

Well I seemed to enjoy it more than most of ye:

Didn't think Cassidy was the killer - serves me right for not paying attention to the incorporation plotline. It fits pretty well into the established facts but I think it'd have been nice to have seen a darker side to Cassidy before now. Admittedly he had to have been the controlled psycho to plan so meticulously but the switch was a leeeetle too sudden.

What did annoy me was the Keith plane thing. That was cheap. I didn't want him to die - he's pretty damn essential to the series - but when the plane blew I prayed that they wouldn't go with the boring cliché of them hearing his voice suddenly and him explaining that he didn't get on the plane after all (and never bothered ringing his daughter whom he is very close to). I honestly thought it was a dream sequence initially.... disappointing there!!

As to Duncan hiring a hitman? Bit out of the blue. Hope that it produces something good.

Oh and the cliffhanger was something out of "Friends" (I think it was in "Friends"). Yes there's something in the briefcase but it wasn't executed right. It should have ended with Keith staring in shock at the briefcase rather than Ross and Rachel at the airport....

Still it entertained me nearly throughout but there's a niggling sense of disatisfaction at how some of it went...

herobear

THE PLANE!! THE PLANE!!

Smurfpiss

ehhhh i can kinda see where you are comin from iguana...giving cassidy a more tragic role would have been interesting..but what was that you were saying about fan fiction? seriously man, you don't write the show, let it be!

i think they should have killed keith IF they didnt have a 3rd series. it would have been a great way to end the show, a real kick in the balls to everybody.
and i think that was originally the plan. i also dont think the murder of aaron was originally there either. it was totally put in so they could say "cw? its a done deal"
anywa, a little let down, but look forward to season 3. mmm kristen is hella hot.

iguana

Smurfpiss wrote:

ehhhh i can kinda see where you are comin from iguana...giving cassidy a more tragic role would have been interesting..but what was that you were saying about fan fiction? seriously man, you don't write the show, let it be!

I said

As someone said on TWOP; 'Wow, that was like several mediocre fanfics come to life...'

Point taken that maybe I'm over-thinking it, but as I also said I'm house-bound with a back injury so I don't actually have anything else to do. I don't even like this episode and I've already watched it twice, you should see the amount of property porn I've watched in the last month (UK TV Brightideas; where awful decorating shows go to die) and I'm actually comtemplating watching Pearl Harbor in a few minutes:( - so give me a break.

tvnutz

Geez man! Pearl Harbour!? lol If you are out of work and at home,buy up some good shows on dvd and watch them. What havn't you seen that you think you might like,or that other people have said is good? Ever seen The Wire,or Battlestar galactica?

Smurfpiss

or....paint dry? rewatch the series, thats what i was doing...till these bloody exams.

corblimey

Well, I enjoyed it. Nowhere near as good as last series, but entertaining tv at the very least. I really didn't get the point of the

graduation flashbacks or alterni-grad or whatever that was

iguana

tvnutz wrote:

Geez man! Pearl Harbour!? lol If you are out of work and at home,buy up some good shows on dvd and watch them. What havn't you seen that you think you might like,or that other people have said is good? Ever seen The Wire,or Battlestar galactica?

I didn't watch Pearl Harbour, I couldn't bring myself to do it. I had all of BSG and The Wire downloaded, but my Lacie drive died.

And btw, I'm female.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

tvnutz

iguana wrote:

I didn't watch Pearl Harbour, I couldn't bring myself to do it. I had all of BSG and The Wire downloaded, but my Lacie drive died.

And btw, I'm female.

Female,eh? Does that mean you are into the OC and Wife Swap!? Because I think women would like BSG and the Wire as well,pity you lost it all...great shows. Grey's Anatomy is good,I think its starting on RTE soon.