Israel closing their embassy in Dublin *Read OP for Mod Warning added 19/12/24*

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122987980#Comment_122987980

What consequences are these? You are in danger of propagating anti semitic tropes about Israel being all powerful that they can in effect bring about economic sanction for a country that doesn't stay silent about their war crimes. Will the Polish now be accused of being obsessed and anti semitic for stating they will will arrest Bibi? Also did you accuse the Irish Government of being obsessed when we were highly critical of the Russian war? Should the government have kept quiet about that too. Why did we ask to join the ICC case against Russia- afterall there are so many other conflicts in the world that we could focus on instead of being obsessed by the Ukraine war. I think it was some other sinister reason than a principle at stake,Darkman.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122988134#Comment_122988134

You can not compare the concern for Ukraine and Russia's invasion with the type of syndrome this conflict seems to hold on certain groups in this society.

I just think it's an unhealthy obsession that serious countries manage to negotiate far better than Ireland does.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122987980#Comment_122987980

“Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.” Edmund Burke.

halkar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122988158#Comment_122988158

Situation in Gaza is far worse than Ukraine. Ukraine gets help from everywhere. World can't even deliver food and water to Gaza with Israeli blockage.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122988158#Comment_122988158

Let me ask you this...

Why won't Israel let the foreign press into Gaza?

Where have you seen that before in any other conflict? What does it tell you?

(Don't expect an answer)

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122988158#Comment_122988158

Yes, The situation in Gaza is far worse and you are certainly right the response is different too because no one is being accused of Russian phobia for speaking out against the war crimes in Ukraine. Nor do we see anyone saying we should be silent about it- that we had no right to focus solely on Ukraine when the Eithopia and Sudan war were on going- which is what Pro Israelis were constantly saying- oh that's right they didn't mind the focus being solely on Russia.

iamstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122988171#Comment_122988171

Not just blockage, actively targeting aid workers on several occasions even after they were given the go ahead and the IOF knew of their presence and whereabouts. Straight up murdered.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122988226#Comment_122988226

And the Press. When you are murdering the Press then you are worried about the truth getting out.

McGiver

Spot on article by Alan Shatter 👍🏻

During 2024, this was accompanied by the Irish government:

Ignoring Iran’s malign role in the Middle East save when it directly attacked Israel, its dedication to Israel’s destruction, and its sponsoring and arming of its self-proclaimed Axis of Resistance, including Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and other fanatical Islamic groups

Deepening its relationship with Iran throughout the conflict, Ireland’s President in July described Iran as playing a crucial role in achieving stability and the peaceful resolution of disputes across the Middle East in a fawning congratulatory letter to Iran’s new President and Ireland opening an embassy in Tehran in September 2024.

Ignoring Hamas’s use of civilians as human shields, the existence of an extensive Hamas tunnel network throughout Gaza either under or adjacent to mosques, UN facilities, hospitals, schools, and residences, the firing of missiles from such locations, storage of armaments and the hiding of Hamas combatants within them as well as captive hostages

Ignoring the thousands of missiles fired by Hamas and Hezbollah at Israel from 7th October 2023 onwards and refraining from any public criticism of Hezbollah, despite its actions placing at risk the lives of Irish UNIFIL troops located in Southern Lebanon

Embracing unquestioned all statistics of Palestinian fatalities published by the Hamas-controlled Gaza Health Authority for which it held Israel solely responsible, ignoring the statistics inconsistencies, the absence of any reference to combatant deaths or to deaths resulting from Hamas & Islamic Jihad missiles falling in Gaza

Criticizing any criticism voiced of UNRWA employees participating in the October 7 atrocities, allegations of UNRWA employees' membership of terrorist organizations, and increasing its financial donations to UNRWA

Ignoring all allegations of terrorist organizations stealing aid delivered to Gaza and repetitively accusing Israel of weaponizing starvation

Doing nothing to counter escalating antisemitism in Ireland and false narratives about Judaism and Israel contaminating school texts and online educational material

Failing to send a single government representative to the Dublin Jewish communal service held in October 2024 to commemorate those barbarically slaughtered a year earlier, despite 22-year-old Kim Damti, an Irish citizen, being one of those murdered at the Nova Music festival and another Irish citizen, then eight-year-old Emily Hand of Kibbutz Be’eri, being abducted to Gaza and due to Israeli government engagement being released in December 2023

https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-834459

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122990606#Comment_122990606

Shatter is an idiot.

Ask him this. Why aren't the international press allowed into Gaza to report what's happening?

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122990688#Comment_122990688

Do you have anything else for the 10 specific points mentioned than ad hominem and whataboutery? Especially the last one 😉

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122990724#Comment_122990724

No I am not reading that idiot's rants.

My point is absolutely valid. Let the international press in to see exactly who is telling the truth. You are getting your "facts" from proven liars i.e. Netanyahu and the IDF.

Why don't you answer this very simple question - why are the international press banned from Gaza?

And why are the Gazan journalists targeted by the IDF?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122990606#Comment_122990606

that article is just the usual hasbara guff.
the tunnels were mostly built by israel during the occupation of gaza to move around military equipment among other reasons, sure, hamas may have built some crudely built tunnels but the main tunnel network will have been built to a professional standard by israel.
there was only one incident of weapons stored in a UN school and that was years ago, there has been no real evidence of such buildings being used to fire weapons not that it would matter as israel deliberately bombs civilian infrastructure anyway.
irish troops are more likely to be at more risk in lebanon from israel as israel have attacked them before.
the statistics from the gaza health ministry have been proven generally reliable before, so the chances are high that they are reliable now, especially as we know israel deliberately target civilians and civilian infrastructure as a matter of course.
it is correct to criticise the false allegations against UNRA employees as they are made by israel in an attempt to discredit the organisation because they inform us of the truth of what is going on in gaza, similar to why journalists are murdered as a matter of course and organisations like al jazeera are illegally banned from reporting within the palestinian state by the illegal invaders/occupiers.
the few employees who did have some possible evidence against them being involved in october 7th were removed from the organisation after a comprehensive investigation, but considering israel apparently has input in relation to staff being employed by the organisation then chances are they knew of the links and therefore aided illeged terrorists to enter the organisation.
which is interesting as israel don't come out of this well either way as they are either swelling the ranks of a legitimate organisation with terrorists, or the most likely outcome, they are lieing.
israel is very clearly weaponising starvation, we can se that for ourselves and don't need organisations or courts to inform us of that, it's blatently obvious.
if there are false naratives surrounding jewdaism and israel in school and educational material whether it be online or offline then that would have been shown/proven and dealt with by now.
criticising israel and stating facts about it's behaviour is not antisemitism, never has been and never will be, and thankfully that nonsense of israel claiming antisemitism when caught out is not working at all any longer.
so yes, just a hasbara whinge fest.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122990724#Comment_122990724

Wouldn't read anything Shatter writes.

Did he condemn or explain why 20K children have been murdered or why 150 members of the Press have been murdered in order to stop them reporting on the Genocide?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122991359#Comment_122991359

What percentage of the claimed 20,000 "children" were 15 / 16 / 17 year old Hamas teenagers with RPGs and other weapons? What percentage were killed by the hundreds of Hamas rockets which detonated before they left Gaza? What percentage were punishment / in-fighting by Hamas? What percentage were caused by Hamas explosions? How many of the 20,000 died from natural causes and would have died even if there was no war? As regards the claimed 150 "members of the Press" killed, it is known that some "members of the Press" were Hamas terrorists who took part in the attack of Oct 2023.

Our ex TD Shatter has extensive knowledge of the middle east and he was spot on when he wrote:

"During 2024, this was accompanied by the Irish government:

Ignoring Iran’s malign role in the Middle East save when it directly attacked Israel, its dedication to Israel’s destruction, and its sponsoring and arming of its self-proclaimed Axis of Resistance, including Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and other fanatical Islamic groups

Deepening its relationship with Iran throughout the conflict, Ireland’s President in July described Iran as playing a crucial role in achieving stability and the peaceful resolution of disputes across the Middle East in a fawning congratulatory letter to Iran’s new President and Ireland opening an embassy in Tehran in September 2024.

Ignoring Hamas’s use of civilians as human shields, the existence of an extensive Hamas tunnel network throughout Gaza either under or adjacent to mosques, UN facilities, hospitals, schools, and residences, the firing of missiles from such locations, storage of armaments and the hiding of Hamas combatants within them as well as captive hostages

Ignoring the thousands of missiles fired by Hamas and Hezbollah at Israel from 7th October 2023 onwards and refraining from any public criticism of Hezbollah, despite its actions placing at risk the lives of Irish UNIFIL troops located in Southern Lebanon

Embracing unquestioned all statistics of Palestinian fatalities published by the Hamas-controlled Gaza Health Authority for which it held Israel solely responsible, ignoring the statistics inconsistencies, the absence of any reference to combatant deaths or to deaths resulting from Hamas & Islamic Jihad missiles falling in Gaza

Criticizing any criticism voiced of UNRWA employees participating in the October 7 atrocities, allegations of UNRWA employees' membership of terrorist organizations, and increasing its financial donations to UNRWA

Ignoring all allegations of terrorist organizations stealing aid delivered to Gaza and repetitively accusing Israel of weaponizing starvation

Doing nothing to counter escalating antisemitism in Ireland and false narratives about Judaism and Israel contaminating school texts and online educational material

Failing to send a single government representative to the Dublin Jewish communal service held in October 2024 to commemorate those barbarically slaughtered a year earlier, despite 22-year-old Kim Damti, an Irish citizen, being one of those murdered at the Nova Music festival and another Irish citizen, then eight-year-old Emily Hand of Kibbutz Be’eri, being abducted to Gaza and due to Israeli government engagement being released in December 2023"

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122991359#Comment_122991359

You’ve resorted to an ad hominem argument—a refusal to engage with the substance, which is a classic logical fallacy.

It appears you are echoing narratives from Qatari- or Iranian-funded sources such as Al Jazeera, as well as other Hamas-related propaganda outlets. Citing the so-called “Ministry of Health,” overseen by an Islamist jihadist authority, does little to enhance credibility. There is no verifiable, independent evidence to support the claim of 20,000 child casualties.

Hamas initiated this conflict by attacking a sovereign state and declaring war. Since then, they have deliberately embedded themselves within civilian infrastructure and used civilians as human shields, showing little regard for the safety of their own people while continuing rocket attacks. This tactic is both cowardly and reprehensible. Unfortunately, parts of the global far-left unwittingly amplify Hamas’s (and broadly speaking Islamist) propaganda—one of the most authoritarian ideologies in the world—which stands in direct opposition to liberal democratic values. It makes no sense for any progressive or liberal individual to endorse such regressive forces.

Allegations of genocide in this context are unfounded. The term “genocide” has been overused to the point that it's lost its true meaning.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122995958#Comment_122995958

i guess much like the term Antisemitic is overused. Israel has been charged with a war crime of starvation of the civilian population of Gaza. If Alan Shatter has not addressed that then he is just echoing the narrative of every pro israel poster online that ignores any inconvenient facts that condemn their behaviour.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122996037#Comment_122996037

How many people in Gaza have died of starvation?

Hamas leaders worth staggering $11B revel in luxury — while Gaza’s people suffer

https://nypost.com/2023/11/07/news/hamas-leaders-worth-11bn-live-luxury-lives-in-qatar/

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122995958#Comment_122995958

And will the IDF allow a 3rd party to check this 20,000 figure in safety? We both know theirs no chance of them allowing that. If you look at the total damage done by the IDF and the fact that they have also targeted safe zones and camps the figure is a very good estimate especially considering how many innocent civilians lived there just over a year ago. The fact is limiting civilian casualties in Gaza was never a priority of the IDF.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122995958#Comment_122995958

The figure of 70% civillian casualties is accepted by the UN

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122995958#Comment_122995958

but there is no substance, it's just hasbara talking points that have already been discredited and debunked and destroyed.
al jazeera is actually quite a credible broadcaster and is generally on the button and factual and has been proven correct in relation to israel's behaviour across the decades.
yes like all media outlets it will have a bit of a slant but it has less of a slant then most western media and has produced some very good documentaries discussing topics you are unlikely to find discussed in western media.
i find myself watching it for news in relation to the middle east now days, something i wouldn't really have done a few years ago.
the palestinian health ministry's figures have generally been found to be reasonably reliable in previous ethnic cleansing attempts by israel, so there is no reason to disbelieve them now, and even if there was, there is no doubt the deaths are in substantial numbers especially when those under the rubble of buildings are eventually found.
israel initiated this conflict by refusing to stay within it's borders, making up bogus nonsense and invading their neighbours on multiple occasions to steal land because a book says they are entitled to the land and are the chosen people.
the allegations of genocide have been ruled to be plausable by the relevant courts, and israel have admitted their intent is to commit genocide and have engaged and are engaging in acts associated with genocide.
israel have never provided reliable evidence of hamas hiding among civilians and civilian infrastructure or that they use human shields.
even if it was the case, and it wouldn't make sense for them to do so as israel deliberately target civilians and civilian infrastructure as a matter of course, said deliberate targeting of civilians and civilian infrastructure remains a war crime and breach of international law.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122996165#Comment_122996165

In that 70% figure, what percentage were killed by the hundreds of Hamas rockets which detonated before they left Gaza?

How many "innocent children" were 15 / 16 / 17 year old Hamas teenagers, in civilian clothes like so many in Hamas, with RPGs and other weapons?

What percentage were punishment / in-fighting by Hamas? What percentage were caused by Hamas explosions? How many of the 20,000 died from natural causes and would have died even if there was no war?

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122995958#Comment_122995958

Allegations of genocide in this context are unfounded. The term “genocide” has been overused to the point that it's lost its true meaning.

I guess the ICJ made a big mistake then when they stated the SA case for Israeli Genocide was plausible.

I'd imagine you believe they made another two big mistakes when they demanded Israel implement "provisional measures" - which Israel ignored of course.

I suspect those stating that "genocide has been overused" do so simply because they don't like it being used against Israel.

Ah well, there's always justice to be served on Gallant and Netanyahu in The Hague for War Crimes.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122996223#Comment_122996223

The usual whatabouterrey.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122996275#Comment_122996275

He hasn't given a genuine reply on any thread as yet. Just the usual whataboutery and gibberish.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122996223#Comment_122996223

You're the random incorrect fact generator so you tell us. I believe you said 10-20% for Hamas rockets killing civilians. Naturally you had zero links to backup anything so everything you said is taken with a dollop of salt.

"How many died of natural causes" - are you having a laugh? That's just weird.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122996602#Comment_122996602

Genocide denial is very hard to understand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122987980#Comment_122987980

A minority disagrees with the mass slaughter of children? Highly unlikely. An unhealthy obsession is standing up for this slaughter and telling Irish people that it's unreasonable of them to condemn said slaughter.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122990606#Comment_122990606

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122995400#Comment_122995400

Our ex-Minister of Justice penned such a wonderful article that it has been quoted in its entirety by two pro-israeli posters!