Israel closing their embassy in Dublin *Read OP for Mod Warning added 19/12/24*

Oíche Na Gaoithe Móire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975136#Comment_122975136

🤣🤣🤣 I'm not into checking lads' lads😂

Oíche Na Gaoithe Móire

Just to prove we aren't anti semetic we booked these lads for our Christmas party..

https://youtu.be/XAy6UT9ceCQ?si=hjtiE4inxGvC7lS_

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974305#Comment_122974305

Will Bono get heckled during his annual Grafton Street busk this year?

freebritney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975306#Comment_122975306

I'd be surprised if he does it.

freebritney

14 months ago being called anti semitic was enough to shut people up, get people fired, de platformed etc etc. Thats all gone now and people are seeing behind the curtain. America is a virtual vassal state of Israel and is eviscerating it's foreign policy to support Netanyahu's Greater Israel colonial adventure. The irony of it all is that the biggest reason most of the headers are supporting Israel is because they're killing Muslims and blowing up the Middle East, but where in the name of fu*k do they think all the displaced Muslims from the Middle East are going to migrate? I'll give you a clue, it's not Israel..

blackcard

There are approximately 2700 Jews in Ireland or 0.05% of the population. I would imagine the number of Irish in Israel is very low too. Unfortunately if you point out that Israel's response to the terror attack by Hamas has been hugely disproportionate, you are deemed anti semitic. Is it worse to be called anti semitic or anti Irish or are both the same?

Necro

Mod: Given some of the comments in this thread tonight I might remind some to read the forum charter regarding hate speech. Take a step back and think before you post because breaches of this manner are being dealt with via way of lengthy forum bans. Two posters went way beyond the pale of civil discussion and went straight into ridiculous generalisations that serve no purpose other than spreading hate.

This thread is now basically becoming a carbon copy of the other thread on the Israel conflict so can we stick to the topic of the embassy being closed or this one will be locked and posters will be directed to discuss all matters in the other thread. As always don't respond to this on thread. Thanks.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122967961#Comment_122967961

I quoted from a centrist Sunday broadsheet. The ANC's financial problems disappear after its senior people visit Iran. Do you really think that has nothing to do with the South African government's ICJ case?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975795#Comment_122975795

More speculation than evidential. Not a shred of proof one way or the other.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975795#Comment_122975795

So getting back to the topic, why didn't Israel close their embassy in SA? Surely if what you say is true, that would mean SA have singled out Israel?

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974801#Comment_122974801

This has nothing to do with right or left. It's a matter of right and wrong.

Anyone standing over a country that has murdered innocent civilians including very young children by sniper fire, deliberately destroyed civilian buildings & entire residential neighbourhoods, bombed refugee camps, shot and killed international journalists, targeted medical facilities and hospitals, blockaded much needed supplies like food to stave a populace, illegally occupied territory that doesn't belong to them and engages in a policy of ethnic cleansing is very much in the wrong.

All these people have are lies to tell themselves to receive some comfort and the only weapon they think they have is empty cries of "antisemitism" which has been blunted by continuous misuse. They also know that if the situation was reversed their rhetoric would be completely the opposite of what the say now.

That's how shallow their position is.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975853#Comment_122975853

Maybe because Israel and the Jews did not always think of S. Africa they way they do now? It is only very recently the S. africa government has behaved as they do - some would say after their trip to Iran. Jewish people usually looked favourably on S. Africa…even back as far as WW2, when S. Africa did not stand idly by …. South Africa made significant contributions to the Allied war effort. Over 200,000 people from S. Africa served in the North Africa and Italian campaigns as far as I remember. Nobody from S.Africa would have dreamed of expessing condolences on the death of Hitler in the months after the horror of the Extermination camps were exposed to the world, where 6 million Jews ( plus countless others like gypsies, homosexuals, handicapped etc ) perished.

Or maybe S. Africa do not ( yet) have a President like ours, always putting his foot in international relations. Here he is wearing what some would perceive to be the Palestinian Keffiyeh with pride:

https://www.reddit.com/r/chomsky/comments/1fw1sxv/irish_president_michael_dhiggins_wearing_the/?rdt=51156

Has S. Africa crossed that line yet, having a President like Higgins? Maybe that answers your question?

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122976761#Comment_122976761

So why did Israel open an Irish embassy in the first place and why haven't they closed the SA one, once they found out about Iran funding the genocide case? Digging up stuff from 80 odd years ago as a reason seems like grasping at straws.

So the actual red line is infact wearing a Keffiyeh? I'm surprised Israel didn't close the SA embassy when Mandela become president as he wore one before.

I think the more likely reason as posted before was the lease was up and they can't afford/see no reason to extend it.

Kermit.de.frog

People continue to ask why Israel didnt close embassies in other countries for similar actions. The truth is Ireland is not an important country and so it's easy for Israel to decide they don't want to listen to anything Irish politicians have to say. They would not close an embassy in a serious country with clout regardless of disagreements.

blanch152

The question is being asked as to why Israel did not close their embassy in South Africa while closing their embassy here. There are a number of multiple possible answers.

• South Africa is a bigger more powerful country than Ireland and Israel needs to maintain good relations
• Ireland is a rival to Israel for American FDA, so the audience is in the US for this action.
• As a smaller country, Israel has nothing to fear from Ireland from reprecussions
• Punishing Ireland sends a message to bigger countries in the EU/EEA like Spain, Norway and Belgium
• Ireland is a tiny player in international diplomacy and ahead of our big stage on the EU Presidency, this serves as a warning shot across our bows

We now run the risk that our time in the limelight as President of the EU, where we have big domestic considerations, will be overshadowed by relations with Israel, causing us damage. Furthermore, we have every right to be nervous about future FDI decisions by US multinationals. Israel will have worked all of this out, so this is timed to cause maximum damage to us.

Cluedo Monopoly

I love how our president is facing the "silence cowards" down and continuing to criticise the wanton murder in Gaza.

Cluedo Monopoly

Deleted

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122976961#Comment_122976961

The truth is....oh ok then.

Ye are really reaching now lads.

Evil prospers when good people say nothing.

Edit: sorry I thought I had responded to Kermit. The thread is very jumpy today.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122976761#Comment_122976761

More made up history, but who is surprised given your posts so far.

Jewish people usually looked favourably on S. Africa…even back as far as WW2,

The Afrikaners/Boers were notoriously antisemitic and carried the same ethos from Germany in the 1930's. They quickly installed quotas to stop Jews escaping to South Africa when the writing was on the wall in Europe.

They also observed with great interest how well some of the Nazi era laws were so effective at suppressing a people that they adopted them in to their own apartheid regime.

Nobody from S.Africa would have dreamed of expessing condolences on the death of Hitler in the months after the horror of the Extermination camps were exposed to the world, where 6 million Jews ( plus countless others like gypsies, homosexuals, handicapped etc ) perished.

BJ Vorster was a vocal supporter of Hitler all his life; during WW2 he and plenty other South Africans were fervently anti-British and pro-nazi; he continued to be a prominent government minister and leader leader of SA after WW2 through to the 80's.

Known fascist and Hitler fan Oswald Mosely was welcomed numerous times by South African Prime Minister & government members. Some of his "standout" work is the initiation of the Holocaust denial and attempting to blame it on the Jews themselves and excuse Adolf as simply "not knowing about it".

But I'm sure you met someone that told you different…..

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122976961#Comment_122976961

The question actually being asked was why they closed the Irish embassy.

They went on a rant about the country being antisemitic (despite another European country actually having a pogram recently), then it's because we recognized Palestine, despite Spain and Norway doing the same. Then it was because we're part of the genocide case, despite SA also initiating it etc... I think @Kermit.de.frog is correct with the reasoning.

2smiggy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977059#Comment_122977059

what country had a 'pogrom' ? The isrealis beaten by grown men in Holland thinking they were hard men, who they were going to send planes especially to collect them ? a bit different from murdering defenseless women and children

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977209#Comment_122977209

Oh I know, but it was still ludicrously called a pogram none the less, despite it being football hooliganism. It's just laughable when they try to call Ireland an antisemitic country ffs.

Guess it falls back to taking a pro-Palestine stance = anti-Israeli = anti-Semitism in their eyes.

Or criticize Israel = Hamas supporting = anti-Israel = anti-Semitism etc...

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977209#Comment_122977209

In fairness, I think one of the Maccabi Haifa fans lost a tooth.

I'm no expert but, amongst the many reasons Israel closed their embassy is that since Oct 7th, Ireland has not allowed Israel to state its case without being challenged.

I'm reminded of the number of interviews, particularly in the early days, on RTE Drivetime, particularly with Mark Regev. You could hear the Hasbara in overdrive - the lies were astounding. But in fairness, he and others were very robustly challenged on facts. This happened a good few times.
Added this to the stance of the President and the Govt., Israel are well aware that Ireland is no pushover and won't simply parrot what they want Ireland and everyone else to parrot.

Also, I'm also reminded that the lead lawyer for South Africa in the ICJ preliminary hearing was Irish.

I'd also finally add that I don't believe Ireland is an insignificant player at all. Many people might see the impartial and neutral stance (to a degree) of Ireland as being a lot more credible than those with vested interests on either side of the conflict. After all, all Ireland is saying is that it will continue to advocate for the upholding of international law and human rights.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122976997#Comment_122976997

Nothing I said was made up. In WW2 South Africa was part of the Allies, and did send over 200,000 men to fight Nazism. Ireland did not join the allies, but chose to have both its Taoiseach and President express condolences on the death of Hitler, when the rest of the world was appalled by the extermination camps and did not send condolences on the death of Hitler.

Maybe one of reasons many of our politicians in Ireland across the political spectrum are anti-Jewish is because:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-anti-israel-hostility-irish-jews-say-antisemitism-is-now-rooted-in-public-schools/

Quote:

Dublin resident Justine Zapin’s two sons, ages 8 and 10, arrived at their public elementary school earlier this month to find Irish lawmaker Chris Andrews outside handing out “Free Palestine” bracelets to pupils.

The bracelets caused discomfort for the brothers and some of their Israeli classmates. When they asked a third classmate if he would be willing to remove his, he became upset and reported them to the teacher. The 8-year-old later said he “felt like he got in trouble” with his teacher for expressing his unease, while his older sibling faced peers questioning his objection with remarks like, “But Israel started the war,” and “Israel’s killing babies.”

After the Hamas-led massacre on October 7, 2023, a classroom discussion implied that “the Jews deserved this,” Zapin said, with objections receiving minimal response from school officials.

Some 1,200 men, women, and children were slaughtered in the full-scale invasion of southern Israel, and 251 were kidnapped to the Gaza Strip.

More recently, the school — part of the Educate Together network, which, according to its website promotes equality-based and inclusive education — dismissed a pupil’s Nazi salute as “boys being boys.”

“There is clearly a culture in the school that is permissive, if not welcoming, to these sort of anti-Israel, anti-Jewish narratives,” Zapin said.

Zapin’s sons’ experiences dovetail with the release of a report this month by education monitoring group IMPACT-se, which exposed profound distortions of the Holocaust, Israel, Judaism, and Jewish history in Irish textbooks.

In one example highlighted in the report, a religious studies textbook cited Islam as being “in favor of peace and against violence,” while Judaism “believes violence and war are sometimes necessary to promote justice.” The New Testament parable of the “Good Samaritan” is illustrated with an image of a boy wearing a Palestinian scarf protesting against Israel.

A history textbook refers to Auschwitz — the Nazi concentration camp in Poland where over 1 million Jews were murdered — as a “prisoner of war camp.”

In a children’s textbook retelling the story of Jesus, a comic strip contains the line, “Some people did not like Jesus,” with disapproving figures depicted in distinctly Jewish attire, including tallits and kippahs. In another instance, Jesus is described as having lived in “Palestine.”

“Misrepresentations of historical facts can perpetuate narratives that challenge Israel’s legitimacy and foster political agendas against the state of Israel,” the report said.

IMPACT-se CEO Marcus Sheff said in a statement issued with the report’s release that the Irish curriculum “views Jews and Judaism as a lesser part of Ireland’s social fabric,” and that growing hostility towards Jews and Israelis in Ireland should therefore “come as no surprise.”

Responding to the report, Ireland’s Chief Rabbi Yoni Wieder said that while some of the inaccuracies relating to Judaism and Jewish history could be chalked up to “sloppy research and a lack of familiarity,” those concerning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict were likely intentional.

“It’s hard to understate the extent to which Israel features in Irish public discourse,” Wieder said. “For over a year, politicians and the mainstream media have demonized Israel on a near daily basis.”

“The IDF is routinely portrayed as intentionally targeting children and civilians. No mention is ever made of the lengths it goes to protect innocent lives. Rarely is there any talk of the atrocities perpetrated by Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran, or the threat they pose to Israel and to their own people,” he said.

Weider cited Dublin City Councilor Punam Rane, who, in an October 7 meeting coinciding with the first anniversary of the Hamas onslaught, claimed that “the entire US economy is ruled by the Jews, by Israel.”

Irish Jews report feeling much more isolated, Wieder noted, with many voicing a “fear of speaking out.” The rise in “inflammatory rhetoric has created a context in which antisemitism can thrive,” he said, but cautioned against “overstating the extent of antisemitism.”

Some Jews “feel very frightened and frequently think about what could happen to them or their families, while others feel safe and don’t see any major cause for concern,” he added.

The Jewish Representative Council of Ireland, the main body of representation for the Irish Jewish community, told the London-based Jewish Chronicle that young Jews felt “under siege” in the classroom, forcing a number of them to change schools due to antisemitism. JRCI chair Maurice Cohen said his efforts to discuss concerns with Irish Education Minister Norma Foley were repeatedly denied. Her department told the newspaper, “There is no evidence of anti-semitism being taught in Irish schools.”

If I wanted to investigate anti-semitism somewhere, I would listen to the victims of anti-semitism and take in what they say, not just what you or some politician says.

Sudden Valley

Isrsael is being demonised for its actions not because of its religion. Castigating DeValera and irelands actions in not fighting against the atrocities of the nazis while at the same ignoring the atrocities and war crimes of israel as charged by the only court that deals with war crimes is particularly laughable.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977644#Comment_122977644

“It’s hard to understate the extent to which Israel features in Irish public discourse,” Wieder said. “For over a year, politicians and the mainstream media have demonized Israel on a near daily basis.”

“The IDF is routinely portrayed as intentionally targeting children and civilians. No mention is ever made of the lengths it goes to protect innocent lives. Rarely is there any talk of the atrocities perpetrated by Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran, or the threat they pose to Israel and to their own people,” he said.

Actually, the IDF does routinely and intentionally target children and civilians.

No need to take my word for it - IDF soldiers have testified to the fact.

However, any and all instances of anti-Semitism should be stamped out. Jews in Ireland have a right to feel safe.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977670#Comment_122977670

The Nazis murdered 6 million Jews, all civilians, while the Jews were no threat to the Nazi regime.

You cannot compare that to the current conflict, after Oct 23 when 1200 innocent Jews were murdered in Israel and hundreds kidnapped and brought to Gaza. There are something like 17 million Palestinians in the world ( not all in Gaza of course):however if Israel was deliberately targeting them instead of Hamas terrorists the death toll would be a lot higher than the 45,000 or so it is now. A lot of the 45,000 were Hamas terrorists. You cannot compare WW2 to the current war.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977724#Comment_122977724

You can compare those seeking to defend war crimes. It is possible to criticise the war crimes committed by all three: nazis hamas and Israel

Fuascailteoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977724#Comment_122977724

A lot of the 45k people killed were Hamas? rubbish and you know it. IDF soldiers are speaking out themselves in greater numbers about the deliberate slaughter of civilians and the competitions about killing the greatest number

ceadaoin.

I find the language on here and in general irish discourse in relation to israel is very particular and extremely reminiscent of nazi era (and older) anti jewish propaganda. Israel is frequently labeled words like satanic, demonic, blood thirsty, evil, baby killers, greedy, They are commiting 'blood sacrifice', slaughter, blood letting etc etc. I dont see the same type of language applied to other countries involved in wars, for example, Russia. Can people really not see how that would make jewish people uncomfortable and come across as possible anti semitism?