Israel closing their embassy in Dublin *Read OP for Mod Warning added 19/12/24*

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977724#Comment_122977724

You're using words like 'innocent' and 'murdered' about Israeli people who were killed on October 7th, but are carefully avoiding using them about the tens of thousands of civilians killed in Gaza since then.

Fuascailteoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977781#Comment_122977781

Do you mean Jewish people that support the IDF and their occupation of Gaza and the west bank or Jewish people in general?

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977781#Comment_122977781

I find the language on here and in general irish discourse in relation to israel is very particular and extremely reminiscent of nazi era

What absolute bloody drivel.

🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977781#Comment_122977781

Well it is bloodthirsty and babykilling to kill thousands and thousands of civilians, many of them very young children. But that goes for ANYONE who does so, not just the IDF. It applies to Hamas too. It's just a choice to see it as anti-Semitic rather than based on the mass slaughter by itself.

Are many people here using what you perceive to be anti-Semitic tropes? Because I don't understand being bothered by words which are used due to the killings, not because Israelis (not all of whom support the IDF) are mostly Jewish. I'm not aiming that at you specifically, just arguing against the anti-Semitism allegations when it's plain as day Israel is going too far, and anyone doing the same would be condemned for their behaviour. The "anti-Semitism" allegations are obfuscation.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977724#Comment_122977724

Palestinians working on the Kibbutzim were also murdered by Hamas on 7th Oct as well as others subscribing to other religions.
Some of those murdered and taken hostage were IDF soldiers. Whilst what happened to them is abhorrent, your statement that "1200 innocent Jews…" is factually incorrect.

It seems like you're saying that the innocent Palestinian civilians should be grateful that Israel is showing massive amounts of restraint. But I can assure you, the dropping of 2000lb bombs in a heavily populated areas is anything but restrained. With a kill radius of approx 700m, the carnage would put many weapons used in WWII in the ha'penny place.

Israel is deliberately targeting civilians. The IDF have confirmed this. The IDF have killed civilians carrying white flags, medics, humanitarian workers, Press, nuns and even sheep. The IDF murdered 3 of their own hostages who were stripped to the waist, waving white flags and clearly shouting in Hebrew.

Perhaps the current Israeli tactic of starvation will provide the requisite number of dead for you to change your mind. But I doubt it.

The loss of the Israeli embassy is regrettable from a diplomatic perspective and for the existing population of Israeli Citizens. But excusing Israel for what it has done and continues to is simply abhorrent.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977781#Comment_122977781

I can't speak for general discourse outside of boards but I can honestly say, other than a handful of disgusting posts, I have not seen any systemic and ubiquitous use of the words, or similar, you have posted as they relate to Israel or Jews.

I would also imagine such posts would be deleted very quickly.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977724#Comment_122977724

Define "a lot" there because your previous stats were fabricated utter nonsense which you never apologised for.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977781#Comment_122977781

Do you find that...right I see. Have you anything to back this up because it reads as unsubstantiated waffle. Would you consider any of the actions of the IDF to be in any way bloodthirsty yourself? Take your time on that question.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122976890#Comment_122976890

The lamest excuse ever invented.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122976961#Comment_122976961

Ah that's alright so. Maybe we should forget about all those murdered children. Shur they're only Muslims anyway and we can see how certain posters feel about them.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122976965#Comment_122976965

And how it hurts them so much.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977781#Comment_122977781

I find it inexcusable that so-called Irishmen would stand with Zionist murderers and leaders with arrest warrants out for them for committing war crimes instead of the leaders of their own country. I find it like a form of treason.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977937#Comment_122977937

We should stay out of the war in the Middle East, there are no good guys in it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122976890#Comment_122976890

A "serious" country. Why are Irish apologists for Israel always so self loathing?

Well then the heinous view by Irish people that mass slaughter is bad... shouldn't be considered such a problem.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122976961#Comment_122976961

Are we not part of the EU? Other countries signed up against to the horrendous war crimes.

Why aren't they saying anything. Small little country putting their head above the parapet. Rightly so in my opinion.

Cowards the big boys are.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122978156#Comment_122978156

Whilst a bit of support from fellow EU states would be handy, it's not as if they are agreeing en masse with Israel's embassy closure either.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122978127#Comment_122978127

We go around moralising other countries and act like we are on the side of the angels on everything but we have zero responsibility for anything.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122978240#Comment_122978240

On the contrary, Ireland has a responsibility to call out the flouting of International Law and Crimes against Humanity.

That's exactly what Ireland is doing.

That Israel doesn't like it is just tough luck.

I also note that Ireland has taken in Palestinian children for medical attention today (reported on RTE).

And of course, Ireland has a strong presence in Lebanon as part of UNIFIL as part of the UN peace keeping mission.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122977644#Comment_122977644

Nothing I said was made up.

It was; I pointed it out to you, unsurprisingly you ignored their history of Antisemitism that you'd lied about to prop up you other illogical post.

Speaking of your illogical and wildly misinformed posts; when are you going to back up those numbers you'd posted about in #1015….it's been a while and a few have requested it yet you keep dodging them.

Jewish people usually looked favourably on S. Africa…even back as far as WW2,

This above is baseless and made up; Jews were subject to quota laws, antisemitic laws and vocal supporters of Nazi-era inbuilt methods of punitive segregation that they carried from the 1930's though to the end of apartheid. At best they were sceptical of Jews and viewed them as a potential 'fifth column' in that they may attempt to overthrow the government and bring in Communism.

Some Jews aided Mandela & Co. and were punished for it; so, no, Jews don't have fond memories of SA going back to WW2.

SA & Israeli relations became stronger during the Apartheid years; why? Because they both implemented the same segregationist rules and violence against those they saw as undesirables…..you know the same treatment Jews got in Germany that you seem so concerned about; they were eager to dole out the same treatment to others.

The ANC were vocal supporters of the Palestinian cause; there were also government threats made to any South Africans that would fight with Israel…so you can drop the pretence of your 'special relationship'.

In WW2 South Africa was part of the Allies, and did send over 200,000 men to fight Nazism. Ireland did not join the allies, but chose to have both its Taoiseach and President express condolences on the death of Hitler, when the rest of the world was appalled by the extermination camps and did not send condolences on the death of Hitler.

South Africa was not 'part of the allies' in the well meaning sense you'd originally posted "when S. Africa did not stand idly by"  -The South African Union was part of the British Empire at the time so was hauled along into war with Britain.

There was a vocal cohort in SA that wanted nothing to do with it and (like I highlighted in my posts that you routinely hide from; there were fervent antisemites in government in SA that continued in to the Republic of SA thereafter for many decades.)

Their history on human rights before or after WW2 isn't something I'd go pinning your hopes on but you carry on and make up more stuff.

Ireland did not join the allies,

We were a 'new' nation with little to offer and a whole lot to lose. Despite you're misunderstanding of British rule in Ireland, there was understandably still significant anti-British feeling at that time.

We did however assist the Allies, you've been pulled up on this before - we allowed RAF airmen to get back to England whilst detaining German equivalents. Permitted use of ports to British merchant marine but not German. Our own tiny merchant marine had to sail alone and picked up allied merchant sailors their own had to leave behind. We permitted the use of air space and installation of radar to help Britain. We routinely conveyed intel to allies.

But I'm sure you'll continue with your misguided Irish history.

Dublin resident Justine Zapin’s two sons, ages 8 and 10, arrived at their public elementary school earlier this month to find Irish lawmaker Chris Andrews outside handing out “Free Palestine” bracelets to pupils

The bracelets caused discomfort for the brothers and some of their Israeli classmates. When they asked a third classmate if he would be willing to remove his, he became upset and reported them to the teacher. The 8-year-old later said he “felt like he got in trouble” with his teacher for expressing his unease, while his older sibling faced peers questioning his objection with remarks like, “But Israel started the war,” and “Israel’s killing babies.”

After the Hamas-led massacre on October 7, 2023, a classroom discussion implied that “the Jews deserved this,” Zapin said, with objections receiving minimal response from school officials.

What school/class/teacher? The evidence is severely lacking…..I'm sure the "Times of Israel" wouldn't be in any way biased……

Some 1,200 men, women, and children were slaughtered in the full-scale invasion of southern Israel, and 251 were kidnapped to the Gaza Strip.

Well at least you got that number someway right but your wording again gives away your weakness for facts over some rush of blood to comment; It wasn't a "Full scale invasion of Southern Israel"; they barely made it an average of about 10k from Gaza; max distance probably 20km's; but nice try to embellish it, dishonestly but hey, who's surprised. The south of Israel from Gaza is approx. 200kms, but we know numbers aren't your thing.

While we're on numbers, and to use you own terms - 46,000 men, women, and children (18,000) were slaughtered in the full-scale invasion of Gaza, and 11,000 were kidnapped to the Gaza Strip. (That's on top of the numbers that Israel had taken prisoner without charge prior to 7th Oct'22)

And just for your consideration they've been at the same in the West Bank but on a comparatively smaller scale (but similar to the number of Israelis targeted by Hamas) at least 817 men, women, and children (180) were slaughtered

A history textbook refers to Auschwitz — the Nazi concentration camp in Poland where over 1 million Jews were murdered — as a “prisoner of war camp.”

In a children’s textbook retelling the story of Jesus, a comic strip contains the line, “Some people did not like Jesus,” with disapproving figures depicted in distinctly Jewish attire, including tallits and kippahs. In another instance, Jesus is described as having lived in “Palestine.”

“Misrepresentations of historical facts can perpetuate narratives that challenge Israel’s legitimacy and foster political agendas against the state of Israel,” the report said.

Similar to the post on the school above - Name the school/books; because Dana Erlich spouted the same an yet never managed to demonstrate the origins for her claims.

Otherwise it's just made up.

“The IDF is routinely portrayed as intentionally targeting children and civilians. No mention is ever made of the lengths it goes to protect innocent lives. Rarely is there any talk of the atrocities perpetrated by Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran, or the threat they pose to Israel and to their own people,” he said.

This is wholly incorrect and a very narrow minded and simplified attempt be Israel to stifle any discussion on what they have done and continue to do. I can be entirely critical of Israel's course of action yet I do not condone nor celebrate what Hamas have done.

This is typical of the way people like you wish to paint the discussion points being made. They are baseless but you're well versed on misrepresenting facts and wholly distorting the facts.

You're moaning about unfair commentary……Israel has murdered nearly 150 journalists reporting from Gaza….why would they do that? To suppress the truth they don't like.

No mention is ever made of the lengths it goes to protect innocent lives.

They cannot claim this to be true whilst deploying the hardware and tactics we all can plainly see.

e.g. encouraging Palestinians to move to a "safe" area only to bomb it shortly thereafter. Or causing injury/death to nearly 150,000 people then systematically bombing the hospitals they have to attend. They've destroyed half the hospitals structurally rendering them useless whilst ensuring the rest are (a) overrun with casualties and (b) starved of utilities rendering them effectively useless.

I'm sure you'll find a repugnant and shameful justification though.

If I wanted to investigate anti-semitism somewhere, I would listen to the victims of anti-semitism and take in what they say, not just what you or some politician says.

You're not "investigating" anything; if the situation weren't so serious it would be laughable for you to use such a term given your posts. You've made up numbers so far, made up claims about South Africa and scrambled together a few media quotes you found online that are in no way verifiable and have already been questioned multiple times in the media without any response.

Par for the course and I expect some other garbled nonsense to follow from you.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122978181#Comment_122978181

True. But a bit of testicular fortitude wouldn't go astray.

Bullshit walks. We're going out on a limb and I'm proud.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122978240#Comment_122978240

I don't know what the royal "we" is about, or what "go around moralising other countries" really means, but in this case, many Irish people - and many people of many other nationalities/ethnicities/religions if any/political persuasions... are just condemning mass killings of civilians, which is a very normal, standard, anodyne, non controversial reaction (and it's not because of hating Jews or loving Hamas - it's a reaction people have to any such case, including when Jews are the victims - like the Holocaust, like the pogroms, like October 7th). It's really no deeper than that. And to claim that there's something objectionable about this stance, well it seems like mere contrarianism.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122978514#Comment_122978514

I'm surprised that Spain and Norway have been relatively quiet - even SA.
I wonder what is preventing the other nations from saying anything?

The President and Govt. are absolutely doing the right thing. As and when the wider atrocities Israel has perpetrated come to light, it will become clearly known what Ireland is calling out.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122979132#Comment_122979132

I've no idea why. Kinda surprising. I'm sure there's stuff going on in the background.

I would like to say it's the current corrupt, racist Israeli government i have an issue with, not Israeli people, regardless of their religion.

Closing the embassy here was a level 11 hissy fit.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122978491#Comment_122978491

Stop making up things and only taking selective quotes. You ignore the bit "Responding to the report, Ireland’s Chief Rabbi Yoni Wieder said that while some of the inaccuracies relating to Judaism and Jewish history could be chalked up to “sloppy research and a lack of familiarity,” those concerning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict were likely intentional.

“It’s hard to understate the extent to which Israel features in Irish public discourse,” Wieder said. “For over a year, politicians and the mainstream media have demonized Israel on a near daily basis.”

“The IDF is routinely portrayed as intentionally targeting children and civilians. No mention is ever made of the lengths it goes to protect innocent lives. Rarely is there any talk of the atrocities perpetrated by Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran, or the threat they pose to Israel and to their own people,” he said.

Weider cited Dublin City Councilor Punam Rane, who, in an October 7 meeting coinciding with the first anniversary of the Hamas onslaught, claimed that “the entire US economy is ruled by the Jews, by Israel.”

Irish Jews report feeling much more isolated, Wieder noted, with many voicing a “fear of speaking out.” The rise in “inflammatory rhetoric has created a context in which antisemitism can thrive,” he said, but cautioned against “overstating the extent of antisemitism.”

Some Jews “feel very frightened and frequently think about what could happen to them or their families, while others feel safe and don’t see any major cause for concern,” he added.

The Jewish Representative Council of Ireland, the main body of representation for the Irish Jewish community, told the London-based Jewish Chronicle that young Jews felt “under siege” in the classroom, forcing a number of them to change schools due to antisemitism."

You say "South Africa was not 'part of the allies" in the well meaning sense you'd originally posted.  Yes it was part of the allied war effort against the Nazis and a third of a million men volunteered. Many went and fought the Axis powers in North Africa, Italy etc.

It is inconceivable that leading politicians in South Africa would express their condolences on the death of Hitler, like our Taoiseach and President did not long after the rest of the world was appalled by the extermination camps recently liberated.

You are comparing anti-semitism is S.Africa in Ireland….how come Ireland in the 1930s only let in a hundreth of the amount of Jews let in to South Africa? Between 1933 and 1939 S. Africa let in 6500 refugees from Germany - we, to our shame, only let in one per cent of that, even though geographically we were much closer to Europe.

Ask any Jews how they feel. They may be afraid to tell you. Are you really surprised it was reported outside these shores " Dublin resident Justine Zapin’s two sons, ages 8 and 10, arrived at their public elementary school earlier this month to find Irish lawmaker Chris Andrews outside handing out “Free Palestine” bracelets to pupils." Do you approve of that?

Are you aware that the war is not as one sided as you think, with Hamas and other terrorists firing approximately 19,000 missiles in to Israel in the 9 months following the Oct 7th attack? And that a sizeable number ( between 10 and 20 %?) of those missiles mis-function / explode before leaving Gaza etc, resulting in civilian casualties? Remember the hospital explosion which Hamas blamed on Israel : it was later found out that it was a Hamas rocket that exploded there as it was taking off.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122979517#Comment_122979517

As predicted; garbled internet searches cobbled together without acknowledging your original mistruths.

Stop making up things and only taking selective quotes.

The laughable irony given your "investigation" and synopsis.

Just because they 'say' something, it doesn't mean we cannot question it, you routinely expect us to believe your make believe stories and expect us to similarly believe their stories without any question; Put it plainly -

1. Where you pulled you numbers from in #1015
2. What schools have this antisemitic ethos; if it was a real issue I think we deserve to know what schools think its ok to treat Jewish people in that manner.
3. What books the previous post referenced. If they exist we should know which books and have them removed from the curriculum immediately for a start.

So do let us know, I mentioned before, they've also been asked simple question multiple times but won't tell us anything that would be in their interest……

You say "South Africa was not 'part of the allies" in the well meaning sense you'd originally posted.  Yes it was part of the allied war effort against the Nazis and a third of a million men volunteered. Many went and fought the Axis powers in North Africa, Italy etc.

Yes as you continue to misunderstand (wilfully now I have to assume) that SA did not join the allies efforts completely altruistically. The South African Union was part of the British Empire at that time and was compelled to, despite (an this is the bit you don't wish to acknowledge) a sizeable vocal cohort who saw Nazi rule and their antisemitic actions as a good thing. The decision was so divisive it caused a government split.

If you're going to pat them on the back for the 300k men then Ireland deserve the same for having roughly the same percentage of our population serve with the allied effort, but I bet you don't like that bit.

The world is a bit more nuanced than your "Ireland is eternally bad" fantasy land.

Between 1933 and 1939 S. Africa let in 6500 refugees from Germany - we, to our shame, only let in one per cent of that, even though geographically we were much closer to Europe.

Again in your wishful way to make SA look like some sort of German Jewish Utopia you ignore the facts and manipulate the one number you can find whilst ignoring the background to them.

The arrival of Jews alarmed the Boers so much they brought in the Alien Act to restrict them. The vast majority were not arriving from Germany due to Nazi era oppression but were Northern European; so your fallacy of SA coming to the German Jews rescue is incorrect from the outset. A huge amount of the Afrikaner/Boer government even thought Alien Act was too weak for their Antisemitic minds; They didn't want them as citizens and instituted methods to stop them rising in their careers.

In your eagerness to pour scorn on Ireland, and falsely praise SA, you also roundly ignore the issue that other countries roundly faced the same issue of accepting Jewish refugees. The UK, US, Spain, Switzerland etc. famously blocked a lot of refugees from entry. The issues of that time are not a simple as you would like to make out; and Ireland as a small and very new nation could do little. You could reserve your misplaced ire for those who could have and should have done more, but you've an axe to grind with a plethora of untruths to back it up.

Geographically closer is little to do with the relevance; geographical ability to accommodate big numbers would be more relevant, South Africa had far more capacity but their in built antisemitism ensured to stop any meaningful number 'escaping'. How South Africa gained the potential 'capacity' is another issue.

It is inconceivable that leading politicians in South Africa would express their condolences on the death of Hitler, like our Taoiseach and President did not long after the rest of the world was appalled by the extermination camps recently liberated.

As I highlighted, many of the South African Union and following South African Governors were fans of Hitler/The Nazis before WW2 and well past that, they simply weren't appalled by the plight of the Jews (or others); they followed them with some of the same ideas. Eamon DeValeras idiotic decision on the condolence has been roundly condemned and was was immediately shown to be wildly inflammatory by the UK/US government at that time; yet here you are attempting to position it as something that is/was still supported. It's well know that his decision to do so, whilst stupid, was not based in antisemitism but simply stemmed from an eagerness to be seen as completely neutral. (Despite helping the allied side throughout which you like to ignore)

As for the rest of the world being appalled by the extermination camps - it didn't last long as your beloved UK began using them in Africa in the 1950's but do carry on lecturing Ireland and telling us to be more like the human rights champions of South Africa etc.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122978240#Comment_122978240

If you think your so small, maybe YOU should shut the fuck up then.

The idea that Ireland should remain quiet on atrocity because we're a small nation is one of the most cowardly and loathsome things to spout.

You and your lot should be ashamed of yourselves.

Mod Edit: Warning issued for uncivil posting

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122979132#Comment_122979132

They're probably reluctant to give Israel's silly little tantrum any traction. Them closing their embassy in Dublin is a pretty mickey mouse affair in the grand scheme of things and it doesn't deserve any further oxygen. They closed the office and nobody really cares all that much. The vast majority have already moved on.

What Israel wanted was to make it a big deal and divert attention away from their heinous criminality in the Middle East. It didn't work.

Strazdas

I've seen suggestions (from the usual suspects on social media) that the Irish state has been engaging in 'virtue signalling' by being so outspoken about the Israeli war crimes. But that doesn't really add up - it would be much, much easier for us to keep our heads down and say relatively little about the events in Gaza. It actually takes bottle to make a stand on this and not go for the easy option.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122979754#Comment_122979754

It seems like you and others care way too much about something, what as you say, doesn't deserve any further oxygen...

The only Ireland's involvement in this mess, worth of mentioning, is that some Palestinians kids will be treated in hospitals here. Other than that, it's pure virtue signaling on politicians side and public too. Not that any gives a two fooks and knowledge and insights about the conflict. IMHO

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122979771#Comment_122979771

It actually takes bottle to make a stand on this and not go for the easy option.

Well government is actually taking the easy one, near to zero influence in the conflict, but big mouth without any responsibility in what they say.. Not to mention the recklessness of that approach.. That's the way I see it.