Need a budget EV fast!

cormie

Thanks again! So is it the cold pack that heats the car while it's charging before setting off in the morning in winter say, or the cold pack just means heated seat and steering wheel? What should I be looking for that heats the car before unplugging?

Do you all reckon #2 if it can be gotten for around 5K is a good buy even with the 112KM stated range? @unkel I know you had previously thought it to be a good option, is that still the case with the 112KM range? If so, I think I'll go get it today!

cormie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148750#Comment_122148750

Is this something I could do on a test drive or inspection? If the firmware is up to date and it's down as 8 bars, does that mean the battery is done for and I should avoid buying? Even for 5K in the case of the two 8/12 bar options in my list?

unkel

Yeah it's a bargain at €5k for sure. As others said, it would be prudent to run LeafSpy on it before you buy though as like I said, batteries on all Leafs are a big risk, particularly on the 30kWh and 40kWh cars

unkel

Could do a very good deal on my own one now too, have had it for sale for a few weeks with very few bites (apart from near daily offers from traders looking to flip). Had a guy ready to buy it, but he lived in an apartment with no charging and he wanted to visit his brother in the west of Ireland once a month. Had to tell him this was not a good buy for him. I'll never make a professional salesman 😂

PM me anyone interested

ElitesTeam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148873#Comment_122148873

Not really. That could drop to 7 bars as theres only 7.5% between a each bar. It is unlikely that its not had its firmware updated since every owner was informed of the free upgrade or be done at dealer service.

You should also take into account deprecation and moving on the car when the time comes to sell. Having 8 bar or worse will be very hard to shift.

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148873#Comment_122148873

You will need a leafspy. Best to read this thread at speakev.
https://www.speakev.com/threads/the-battery-health-thread.18923/

It's an information overload but all the information is there. Our car for example improved from 7→11 bars with the upgrade done.

No point buying a L30 with low bars without checking for this.

cormie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148914#Comment_122148914

Ah two differing opinions from you and @unkel now 😮

You don't think either of the 8 bar options are worth it at 5K?

If I run Leaf Spy, what exactly am I looking for?

What reading is a BUY and what reading is a RUN? Since I don't have a dongle and want to test drive anyway, can I get the same answer by doing the test drive for 20km and if it drops from 112 to 92 it's safe to buy, if it drops to like 80, it's a run? Is that enough of a test to have a confident enough answer? Or it's avoid altogether since it's 8 bar?

ElitesTeam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148941#Comment_122148941

8 bars means at least 36% battery is dead. you need to get leafspy as it could be border 7 bars. Also gives good indication the battery cells imbalance.

This is why getting a second hand car that still has some battery warranty gives some piece of mind for the second hand market buyer.

cormie

Ok thank you, but is battery degradation not just a given? I mean if I get option #5 with 9 bars, or option #6 with 10 bars, both still in warranty, besides the potential that they may qualify for the 40kw recall/upgrade, what good is the warranty with regular use? They are a much higher investment so would it not be relative in terms of resale value based on what I buy it for anyway?

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149030#Comment_122149030

The newest L30 in Ireland will be out of warranty in a just over a year. There is slim to none chance that you'd get down to 8 bars within the first 160k unless the battery firmware is out of date. With out of date f/w you are guaranteed to lose plenty of capacity bars though but you will get them back after the upgrade.

Even slimmer chance is that Nissan would give you a new 40 kWh battery. Their wording is that the battery capacity warranty is 8 years. But if one of the modules in the battery fails that is only covered for 3 or 5 years (can't remember which). So a total module failure, according to Nissan, is not degradation.

Good news is that if you find a solid 10-bar car with just over 100k on the clock the chances are that the battery cells are not going to fail and you will then just loose a couple of more percent of capacity each year until the car not usable anymore. But one bought now should give you many more years of trouble free and cheap motoring. And enjoy better range than an also somewhat degraded L24 would give you.

ElitesTeam

The cars you mentioned so far are 2017 but all 3 different battery level. At the end of the day how the battery was kept much like the car tells a bigger story. The lower the bars lower the quality and/or care was taken of the car. Your commute might be 70km but what happens if a road is closed for unknown reason and you need to detour. These are extra things to keep in mind. Happened to me once where a detour on the motorway added 20km but luckily I had fully charged when I left house the morning which was not always the case.

Personally I would not go near a car below 10 bars and even then I would get leafspy to verify or have owner do it.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148941#Comment_122148941

I don't think there are any differing opinions here. We are all saying the same thing. Leaf batteries are highly risky, particularly the 30kWh and 40kWh versions. You haven't a hope of a warranty battery replacement. The prudent thing would be to check any Leaf with LeafSpy before you buy. But on the face of it, €5k for a 2017 Leaf 30kWh looks like a bargain.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149216#Comment_122149216

I agree with this too.

cormie

Thanks again everyone. I'm going to do some calculations on it and see even if the 5K 2017 30kWh did deteriorate to a point of very poor resale value, would it still make sense to buy over an ICE.

In the mean time, is there any way to tell from looking at the car, or the dash display:
1) Whether it can heat the car before driving off in winter (highly recommended previously in this thread)
2) What the kWh rating of it is?

I already know to look for the "eco" button on the wheel, just need a way to confirm if it has the pre-drive heat feature (I believe it's called cold pack) and to tell the battery kWh rating :)

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149400#Comment_122149400

The 'pre-drive heat feature' is activated from the app. How you know if you can heat the seats and steering wheel is the presence or absence of heated seat and steering wheel switches.

cormie

Oh that's great, thanks a lot. So any Leaf with those switches, they'll be able to be turned on from the app so you don't have to go out to the car in the morning to do it, you just do it from the app? Is that compatible with any that has the switches?

I'm trying to look up how to tell the kWh now too, I think with Leaf Spy or also the VIN

I think the following may be contained in the VIN, but I'm not sure if this just applies to the USA

AZO 24 kwh
BZO 30 kwh
AZ1 40 kwh
BZ1 62 kwh

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149756#Comment_122149756

Get the proper dongle and install Leafspy on your phone. It's only a few quid and any buyer who won't let you use it is walk away time.

zzap64

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149756#Comment_122149756

I'm pretty sure the cold pack doesn't have anything to do with the pre heat feature. The pre heat is for the air heater system.

You can also set the pre heat from the touchscreen in the car, near the charging timer screen. The app has stopped working for older LEAFS recently I believe. I think it still works for the 30kWh but I have never used it and the reliability seems to be very poor (server issues etc.) from what I have read.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149400#Comment_122149400

They all have the preheat option. You can set from the car display and, the very very unreliable app.

sh81722

The remote access functionality will be removed from the cars with the older type navigation very soon. These are the cats with headunits with the resistive screen.

unkel

Little birdie on my shoulder tells me this thread will get an update from the OP shortly 😀

cormie

Hey everyone, thanks a lot for all the help with this. The 172 in Wexford was looking to be the best option. We had to suss out insurance first and they ended up being able to get insured based on their original country driving license, not an international license, there's a difference apparently. They can drive on this until they are 12 months in the country so will get a full license in the mean time and swap from their country license to the full Irish license, so no issue with L plates, motorways etc in the mean time. The policy would have been €2,170 in their own name, but as a named driver with a full Irish policy holder, it was €920!

They were happy with that but we still weren't 100% on the car, and then I got a call off the 172 owner and we chatted for a bit and it all sounded good. They said they'd let it go for the €5,100 but no less, I told him we still weren't sure on everything and I could let him know. He said if he didn't get that, he'd just keep it and he wasn't going to renew the DoneDeal ad. She decided to go for that and got the insurance arranged then we rang back and said we'd come now for €5,000 and he agreed so we headed down for the car. I didn't use Leaf Spy but the guy seemed genuine and they actually owned it from new. I also saw his adverts.ie profile previously where he had 100% positive feedback which is always a good sign!

The range was 110km when we started and we did a 20km test drive, after which the range had only reduced to 102km which I was delighted to see. With the comments about it being a bargain either way she decided to go for it. Paid €5,000 and he gave €50 back for luck 😁

We had a 150km+ drive home so knew we'd need to charge along the way, ended up in a Lidl using an easygo normal charger but then realised it would take a few hours so we looked for a fast charger close by and that took 40 minutes. All this together took a few hours to figure things out, and cost about 8eur to get another 100km of range which is pricey enough and hopefully home charging will work out a good bit cheaper. The range covered on the way back driving between 90 and 100kmph was pretty accurate to the range dropped which was great to see too.

Trickle charged it then when she got home. Today the range was reading 150km before doing a test run to her work and back, with a bit of a detour on the way back too. Covered 75km, but the remaining range after this was 84km, so again, delighted with that. There was stop start traffic, using navigation etc too so everything seems great so far other than the console buttons for volume etc not working, but the steering wheel ones do.

I understand the range will eventually worsen, but If she's going to have access to the work charger regularly then this will be helped a lot. If she does between 12,000-15,000 km per year, over 5 years this would cost close to €10,000 in fuel with higher insurance and tax too. Even if she spends €5,000 on it over the 5 years between charging costs and whatever else to cover the same mileage, then the €5,000 saved in fuel covers the cost of the purchase :) If it won't need much in repairs and servicing over the years and she'll have easy access to the work charger, it's going to work out even better :)

Thanks again for all the help everyone, really appreciate it :)

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122158962#Comment_122158962

Great news. Home charging will be much cheaper. The Leaf of that generation takes a Type 1 charger plug. You can use the granny charger that came with it, but if you want faster charging, you need a dedicated home charger. You can get a type 1, but will probably be better to get a type 2 charger and use an adapter because the next car will be type 2 😉

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122158962#Comment_122158962

Nice one, you got a great bargain cormie! That car will do that commute with easy on the worst day in winter for years to come, no doubt about it.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122158962#Comment_122158962

Great outcome, and looks like a decent car for very little money comparatively. Well may it wear.