Need a budget EV fast!

unkel

@zg3409 - "With a 24kWh battery you may have to slow on motorway to 100km/h or even
80km/h in winter especially if very cold weather and a head wind."

Agreed with that. Personally if I bought an early Leaf for that 64km trip, on my first commute I would drive as gently as possible, then see how much range was left upon arriving home. And then base my driving style off that. Personally I drove it in cold stormy rainy winter's weather on a 110km motorway trip with one stop and I had loads of range left coming to the stop, didn't charge to full and then had loads left when I got home. But I took it handy.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139224#Comment_122139224

Getting a charger installed isn't an option for them as they are renting.

-Getting a fast charger installed isn't an option where they live, but trickle charging is, even if it'll be a little more expensive. I understand it can take about 18 hours to charge though, so this could be a problem if they use up all their range each shift and needs it charged before the next shift.
-The new job is getting an EV charger installed in the car park, but no sure what type yet.

Hold up…. they want a cheap, low range EV but they dont plan to have a proper home charge point?

I dont think that will work in the real world, particularly with a commute of 70km's with 60km of it being motorway as you will have the car fully drained everyday (particularly winter). Unless you are going to crawl up the motorway…. dont do that… life's too short!

Granny charging will take ~8-10hrs and that means not having use of the car when you come home as you will have to plug it in straight away if you want to be sure its ready for their next shift…. 12hrs later?

If the work charger was up and running and they had guaranteed access that would change things a bit but its a big risk, imo, to be buying on the promise of access to a work charge point.

I think you need to revisit the decision to go EV or revise the criteria laid out. Its do-able as is but I think the margins are too tight and it would just be a constant compromise (drive slow, park the car up when you get home, long term granny charging etc) and worry.

Either negotiate with the landlord to get a proper charge point or go with petrol or get a longer range EV (up the budget).

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141778#Comment_122141778

Granny charging won't take that long. It's a small battery. Mine takes around 6 hours usually if its empty. I only charge it on the granny charger. Even if it's flat, pushed to the charger, the granny cable will give 2kW to the battery after losses so 7*2 is 14kWh and I would bet the current capacity of the leaf he bought is less than 14kWh. (given that mine with a bar more is 14.3)

I did the charge for 12 hours every night on granny cable years ago and while its a pain, often its a necessary evil when renting. I was in the same boat.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141822#Comment_122141822

But your car isnt suitable. This is 70km's (60km on the motorway) and they cant arrive home at 0% everyday, so they have to compromise on speed and heating etc and get a car with more than 14kWh usable…. so 7 hours on granny charge point wont do.

Like I said, what has been described is do-able but its a step too far in my view and unless they love suffering to save a few euro it wont be a pleasant long term experience. I'd get a longer range car or stick with petrol until they can afford the right EV…. a <90km Leaf isnt the right purchase here, imo.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141984#Comment_122141984

My whole point, all along, is that its not suitable. I think I said exactly "you bought the wrong car"

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141992#Comment_122141992

Oh… I missed that he had already bought it. I agree, its a bad choice. If money hasnt actually changed hands I would suggest they reconsider.

...Ghost...

At the OP. It seems that there is very little option right now. I personally wouldn't buy a car with limited range at the extreme end of my commute. My commute is 70km return and also about 50km of that is motorway. I managed it in a 24kWh Leaf with 10 bars remaining, I would have about 20% battery left when I got home and this was March - September. I picked up a car with much more range in September 2022 because I wasn't willing to deal with the idea of running out of battery, or having to charge on the way home during the cold months. That was a car with 10 of 12 bars, heated seats and steering wheel.

This is my suggestion. Use the car for the summer. Do not go over 80km/h. Save every penny and buy a newer Leaf before the weather changes for the worse. Unkel will probably buy the car back off you for a few hundred less than you are paying now. Worth asking when it comes time to sell. Keep the second Leaf for a year, or two, depending on your needs and keep your eye out for an Ioniq which will be the car that's most suitable.

cormie

Thanks everyone for the continued input!

Nothing has been bought yet!

The price agreed with @unkel was €2,800 with a granny and standard charger.

If they knew they could sell it on easy again for close enough to that, I think it would be worth the punt until winter comes. The problem is, there doesn't seem to be much interest at all on any of the leaf ads I've seen so I don't know if the comment above saying it's worth €1,500 is a bit tongue in cheek, or if there is genuinely such little demand, that getting €1,500 would be at least something. The idea of buying now to sell again before winter may be the best option with the budget, but the problem is how difficult it will be to sell on once it comes time to sell. The point is to save money over a petrol, but if the resale value or demand is going to be so much worse, than I'm not sure 🤔

At what price would you all agree that it's worth the inconvenience of the low battery annoyances?

How much more would you all be willing to pay for something that would guarantee say 80km (commute plus a bit extra) in winter driving at motorway limits? Do any of the deals listed seem good, or they are all just average?

JVince

A few in Merlin auctions https://www.merlin.ie/stock/?culture=en-GB&locationid=36&excludeClosed=true&fueltypeid=4&page=1&pagesize=25&sortby=reference_asc

User1998

Surely a Toyota Yaris for as little as €1,500 is a better option. A degraded leaf clearly doesn’t suit your needs

Buying a car and having to sell it before Winter is nuts😂

ElitesTeam

You will have far too my range anxiety with a 24kw leaf espically since your just getting into EVs. Get a 30kw leaf tekna that has all extras such as heated seats to reduce use of heating or as suggested a cheap petrol. in a years time the market could be different and it easy to sell nobody knows.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142409#Comment_122142409

In your OP you said the budget was 3-4k that could possibly stretch to 7k. Taking the lower figure (4k) there are plenty of Leafs on sale that tick the boxes and would come in (with some bargaining) close enough to that figure that should, assuming their battery SoH is high enough and the car is new enough to make the range comfortably.

I definitely think it's possible, but you'd need to take on board what @ELM327 said and also I really think that since it's going to be a Leaf, get Leafspy and a dongle so that you can get an exact battery SoH for each car you look at. There are plenty of cars to choose from (around 70+ 2013 onwards) and a lot have been on sale for a while, so a good deal is eminently achievable.

Just to reiterate what @ELM327 said:

132 cars upwards had the new battery chemistry

Cold pack is essential for winter driving.

Don't get anything with less than ten bars. And bars are a rough guide, Leafspy will give exact percentage. Many out there are in low 70% whereas others are up in the high eighties.

Edit: OBD dongles are cheap. This one has good reviews on SpeakEV.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B011NSX27A/ref%3Dppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Woodie40

As someone already mentioned, better to get a loan if you can and look at the budget/yellow pack brands like MG, BYD, etc.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142409#Comment_122142409

Just a wee update to this, I didn't agree to that price yet. But I would have been inclined to accept an offer a bit higher, being told the deal was to be completed today. As many sellers, I was tempted by the smell of cash. And also wanted to help a long time boardsie out who seemed in urgent need of a car for a commute to a new job

Turns out the driver has an international license, but can't get insurance with that. They haven't even passed the Irish theory test yet, and as such don't even have a provisional license. So I don't think there was ever any urgency in this

Also I hope it is totally clear to everyone that I am not trying to sell the buyer an unsuitable car. I was told the budget was €3k including a years tax. So the choices are very limited.

I posted here:

"Personally I would get a loan and buy a €10k Ioniq. But if that is
difficult and your budget is under €3k and that needs to include tax for
the year, your options are fairly limited."

and in private messages:

"Well, you've seen the opinions on boards. An Ioniq would be a better car for the job, but would cost at least €10k. Personally, if that was not a viable option, I would go for the cheap Leaf and try it out, re-assess in autumn. Either used to the range by then and happy to do it in winter with or without work charging, or time to organise a loan and get that Ioniq. Having saved the guts of a grand in fuel by then compared with a petrol / diesel"

"Few people on boards saying not a good choice of car, although everyone does state the car can do the commute (in winter) but it could be tight, not much left coming home. And not wise to drive at the speed limit on the motorway, particularly not in bad weather"

unkel

@User1998 - "Surely a Toyota Yaris for as little as €1,500 is a better option."

Buying a Yaris and paying for fuel and tax for the year for not much more than €3k all in total budget means you will have to get the car for free, no?

prawnsambo

Is the international licence not from a recognised state? Because those can be converted without a test.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142567#Comment_122142567

Not sure about that. My brother in law (Irish but living in the USA for over 30 years with dual Irish and USA passports) couldn't even get on his mother's insurance as a named driver with his international license, until he renewed his expired Irish driving license (that he has kept on for all those years)

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142372#Comment_122142372

"Unkel will probably buy the car back off you for a few hundred less than you are paying now."

Interesting "out of the box" suggestion. I would sure consider that for anyone interested in buying my Leaf who isn't 100% confident the car can do what they want it to do 😀

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142704#Comment_122142704

My thinking is the car would at worst sell for 2-2.5k in a few months time for a super fast sale. Would take longer to sell at 3k for anyone able to hold it for a while. So, logically, the buyer would save about €25 per week, €100 per month. If they kept the car for 4 months, they save around €400 on fuel costs. Small tax saving too i'm sure. So IF they bought it for €3k taxed, then they won't lose a cent if they sell it for €2.5k at the end of the summer.

I'd do it if I had no other choice 😂

Iguarantee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135387#Comment_122135387

FYI I own a 2015 Nissan Leaf with a 24kW battery capacity. This is the only battery capacity available in 2015, or before it.

That 2013 leaf cites a 200km range. My car, which has ~60,000km mileage and has 11/12 battery markers active (i.e. the battery can store 92% of what it did when it was new) cited 127km range today when I had it charged to 100%.

Maybe that person has some battery expansion installed, I don't know. If now, I know that you wouldn't get 100km from a 24kW, 2013 Leaf with 120,000km on the clock, never mind the cited 200km range.

FYI the base specification of Leaf is very basic. I have the mid range spec, which has bluetooth etc. The top spec has leather seats, different alloys, heated seats etc.

cormie

Wow thanks again everyone, great to get so much input even if a little hard to keep up with :)

I'd be a bit slow to try get something from an auction, I'd rather post something here and get some thumbs up on it than going blindly into an auction.

The ICE option, they'd be on 12hr shifts 14 days a month = approx 4000km over June-September (before the cold comes in). Let's say a cheap petrol uses 8L/100km, that's 320L of fuel. So about €600 spent on fuel over the 4 months.

They want an automatic so this reduces the pool by quite a bit.

If the work charger is free and they can use it every shift without issue, then this will have a big impact on the practicality of getting even a cheap lower range EV, which is the idea behind getting Unkel's.

There's 3 main things that would make buying the 2011 more sensible:
1) They could resell it for close to what was paid easily (If 2.5k for a quick sale was possible it would give a lot more confidence, but the fact that so many low price leaf's have no comments or offers on the ads at all just leaves me thinking their is virtually no demand for them)
2) They could do the round trip without a charge at least until the end of September
3) They could charge at work for free and be guaranteed a charge each shift.

They will have their provisional very soon. The state is not recognised. The commute is 4 hours return minimum without a car so it is urgent and they would have bought today were it not for the cautionary comments this morning. Just to have it here ready for when they are clear to drive it.

Thanks for the suggestion of the OBD, I actually have one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00UR5BRZU/ref%3Dppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

But I'm not sure it will work with a leaf?

I guess the next step up budget wise would get these options:

€5,500 - 2015 Nissan Leaf - Suggested by @prawnsambo. Suggests 130km range. Cold pack.
€5,500 - 2014 Nissan Leaf - Suggested by @prawnsambo. Suggests 136km range. Tekna

Would the 2014 Tekna also come with the cold pack even though it doesn't mention it I wonder?

Iguarantee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142813#Comment_122142813

That 130km range Leaf might get 130km of range but only if you drive it at 60/70km consistently (on level ground, or downhill).

The series of hollow circles at the top of the display correspond, loosely, to how much power the car is using e.g. going up a hill at 100km/hr will have all of the right hand side dots full. When using regenerative breaking e.g. going downhill without accelerating, the left hand side dots will fill up.

The faster you go and the more power the car needs to use, the more dots you have on the screen and the less of that fantastical 130km you'll actually get.

I've driven 4km from my house and seen a 10km reduction in range according to the car display.

I'm only saying all this so that you (and your friend) are aware of the limitations of the car, rather than talking you out of buying it. I like my EV.

Out of interest, seeing as they're looking to do motorway driving: why do they want an automatic? automatics are handy but hardly helpful on a motorway in comparison to typical stop-start-stop-start city traffic driving…

cormie

I guess if that's the case with a car with 130km of range, it'll be even worse with the older one with less than 100km of range and all the same caveats will apply, just with less of a reserve. It's just whether an extra 2k or there about's will give a far more practical experience and mean not having to sell before winter comes out of necessity due to the unsuitability of the lower range, cheaper option.

They are used to driving an automatic and don't like manuals so want to stick with that 😐️

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142813#Comment_122142813

Checked the reviews on Amazon and it doesn't work on the Nissan Leaf.

Iguarantee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142914#Comment_122142914

Concerning the gearbox type, that's understandable.

I bought my Leaf for €9,500 in 2022 and the "130km" range is quite limiting. I only use it for driving between my commuter town and the city. I have free charging at work and pay for ESB type charging the other times. I don't have a charger at home (terraced house, limited install options without draping a cable across the public footpath).

Public chargers have become quite expensive compared to a year ago. Charging my car from 5% to 100% on an ESB fast charger is circa. €15 now. I do appreciate it's quick but that's some price for <100km of actual range.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142813#Comment_122142813

Selling for 2.5k really should be an issue. Demand is low in general, but priced keenly, any car will go. I sold my 2014 Leaf about a month ago for 5.5k, which I considered a bargain price for a clean example. Others on here baulked at the price and some suggested it was only worth about half that. Easy to be an arm-chair expert, but the car sold in less than a week. It actually sold 2 days after I uploaded some proper photos.

You should note that you can't drive a car on a learner permit without a fully licensed driver also in the car. Provisional licenses are no more. Replaced with learner permits years ago.

cormie

€15 for 100km of range, that's similar, if not worse than what you'd pay on unleaded for the same distance!?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143283#Comment_122143283

Thanks again. Do you mean selling for 2.5k shouldn't be an issue? As in, they could probably get back 2.5K for it easy enough?



How does 2017 Leaf for €5,950 look?
New NCT to July 2025
still YEAR WARRANTY ON BATTERY
with Nissan left
Great condition inside
30kw battery
SOH 87%(rare)
Tekna cold pack model

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143395#Comment_122143395

High enough mileage, but it's very keenly priced. You probably won't get much if anything off that price, but worth a try anyway.

Otherwise ticks all the boxes and then some with the 30kWh battery.

natexornate

Also no motorways on a learner's permit, even while accompanied.

cormie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143478#Comment_122143478

They are saying it's range is about 110km, so that's pretty low considering it's a 30kwh battery and meant to be at 87%, or is it?