Now it's official: "Ireland needs a new right wing party".

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000308#Comment_122000308

Justin Barrett, former leader of the National Party before he was ousted, presumably in an effort to make them look a bit more respectable.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000305#Comment_122000305

Personally I would class Fine Gael as broadly neo-liberal - a right wing flavour of political thinking. They favour privatisation over state run institutions for example. But they aren't wound up about things like gay rights, which the more stupider elements of the right wing gets their knickers in a twist about.

Also, just because FG were in power when something like gay marriage came into effect or that Varadkar, himself, is gay, doesn't make them any less of a right wing entity. The may hover around the centre/centre right on a lot of issues, but they're certainly not left wing, that's for damn sure. It just means that they have slightly softened their previously rigid approach to things like the same-sex marriage issue, because they saw which way the wind was blowing and were wise enough to blow with it. The vast majority of people in Ireland today either don't care about same-sex marriage or are pro it, and to be against it means going against something that the electorate might not look to favourably on you for. Not a smart move for a political party looking to be, or remain, in power.

Also, something like immigration isn't a left wing issue, no matter how much those on the right wish it to be. Remember, the right wing love their cheap labour, because it's instrumental in driving down wages and employment conditions. Neo-liberal right wingers are especially wedded to the free flow of labour and such a position doesn't make one "left wing". And while those on the left would be broadly in favour of immigration/emigration, that's because they would see it as more of a human right than anything else. However, there are plenty of those who would consider themselves to be of the left that would also be concerned about how immigration is handled in practical terms.

The simple fact of the matter, however, is that in Ireland we have a very spread out centrist political reality. All of our main political parties, FF, FG, Lab and SF hover around it. In fact, much of European politics hovers around the centre ground. Political parties these days (in the main) can be, and usually are, quite fluid in their policies and will often test the waters before stating where they stand on a given issue. And they can change that stance if it becomes clear that it ceases to be a vote winner. Frankly, that's just realpolitik.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001227#Comment_122001227

with insightful contributions from, checks notes, a restauranteur. Seriously.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001386#Comment_122001386

I'm asking where you think the popularity for an Irish right-wing party will come from in a thread about right-wing parties in Ireland - something you haven't responded to.

You seem to have interpreted this as "lead[ing] with condescending remarks and ridicule" for reasons I neither know nor care about at this point.

Now are you going to answer that, or complain about me, the left and the far right?

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001521#Comment_122001521

That's one person out of a 50 second ad. I suspect the HOUR LONG documentary may have more contributors.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001239#Comment_122001239

No link to where I said the Irish are racists?

I offered the proof in this part of my post:

'You may want to ignore the racism some Irish people have and pretend it's not there but in the real world, foreign nationals are getting abused, buildings for asylum seekers are being burnt down, some are stating they don't want any immigrants of a certain colour to be allowed into Ireland and some are calling Irish people of a different colour as not being from here.'

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999712#Comment_121999712

Yes. Or righties .

Edit to add. The problem is not posters 'piling on ' to question or reply to you surely, that's what is the point of debate , but where you perceive unfairness and incorrect labelling ? Or being wound up ?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000017#Comment_122000017

Perfect description .

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001545#Comment_122001545

I don't think there's a want or a need for a right wing party.

The existing parties just need have less fear about things like being tough on crime for example, right wing and left wing extremists both ran societies in the last century that were tough on crime so that's not something that is peculiar to one or the other and demonstrates that simply having a new right wing party isn't the answer to solving the issues that people are concerned about.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000246#Comment_122000246

That's not fair to people on the spectrum . Many have to learn how to be empathetic and it is no fault of theirs if they can't .

If what you mean is, that some libertarians may be on the spectrum , I still don't think it's right to link disabilities with negative traits.

They are just outward manifestations of the disability which should not be used to label people on either side.

And I perceive Libertarianism to be "selfish, I'm all right jack , spoilt , so and so s " , who were either brought up or educated to believe they owed nothing to society but just to themselves .

Of course that is one opinion and am sure there are people who justify that type of mentality and live it quite happily .

More basic but better that than associating them with people who have no choice but to be that way and will never be able to change because of their innate neuro divergence .

True Libertarians could change and would have the ability to learn / become more empathetic and caring but it doesn't suit them or their lifestyle to do that so they don't

Not getting at you btw your posts are excellent ,and interesting to read .

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001890#Comment_122001890

If you're answering the same question four times discussion becomes impossible.

Sometimes it feels like answering work emails on this site.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002050#Comment_122002050

I'd pretty much agree with you on that, but it would have helped us both if you'd just posted it earlier!

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002050#Comment_122002050

The problem is that the existing parties will do nothing unless they're forced into it. They ignored the crime problem until a string of horrific incidents - like an American tourist being mutilated- forced them to acknowledge and react. Likewise they ignored the concerns about immigration until people started demonstrating. Now we have the rural Independents threatening to form a block that threatens the main parties votes. Notice how Simon Harris's first action after his elevation to FG leader was to rush to meet the Independents. The threat of losing votes is ultimately the only thing that'll force parties to take notice of public concern about an issue. If a moderate respectable centre right party emerged I think they'd attract a significant vote. Time will tell. If FG follow through on their promises to take crime and immigration more seriously then this debate will be moot. One thing is certain - the issues themselves are not going to go away and are likely to get worse before they get better.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002255#Comment_122002255

I did. You latched onto another point I made and started taking the p1ss out of me.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001593#Comment_122001593

Coming up after the break - views on the health service crisis from a mouthy plumber.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002350#Comment_122002350

Possibly, but if so it was before I joined the discussion.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002125#Comment_122002125

Maybe answer once and refer to that post with the other replies ☺️

I know what you are saying but as long as people are legitimately asking and not just on the wind up it's just what posting here is about .

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003177#Comment_122003177

People were on the wind up, that's why I raised the issue.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003210#Comment_122003210

Did you not talk about "insane leftiies " ? Think that is a bit of a trigger too.

Batsxxt crazy at either end !

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003240#Comment_122003240

I was referring to politicians not posters.

I was accused of being an extremist, which seemingly is acceptable behaviour on boards.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003285#Comment_122003285

I read the thread so know what was said ..

Yes. Indeed. Terrible to be called extremist when you are just in the middle somewhere ;)

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003309#Comment_122003309

OK Goldengirl. Have a nice evening.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003353#Comment_122003353

And you too :) nullzero

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002110#Comment_122002110

I could possibly have put a bit more thought into my post, I concede.

To be clear, I don't like to think of being on the spectrum as "a disability". I think it's part of the normal distribution of human personality traits. Thus I don't see myself here as "linking disabilities with negative traits".

When I suggest libertarian politics is for people who are on the autistic spectrum but don't know it, I mean not only that they are deficient in empathy, but that they haven't noticed that they are deficient in empathy (and, therefore, they have never made the efforts to learn empathy, or even to understand it, that you mention). Since they do not understand that others do experience empathy, they are baffled and/or repelled by political positions rooted in empathy.

And this probably ties in with your sense that they are entitled; if somebody else has a political position that they cannot understand or whose attraction they cannot see, they assume that the fault must lie in that person or in their position; they do not consider that the fact they cannot see it may disclose something about them.

I am very far from saying that everyone who professes libertarian politics must be on the spectrum, or that everyone on the spectrum must profess libertarian politics; not at all. Just that liberarian politics may tend to attract people on the spectrum (but unaware/in denial) because the values that libertarianism discounts line up will with the deficits typically experienced by those on the spectrum. Libertarian politics will make a kind of sense to a person in this situation.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003986#Comment_122003986

Libertarians want the government out of the way, how are they entitled?

As for your allegation that libertarians lack empathy, anyone can stick a Ukranian flag on their FB bio , it costs nothing

Performative wokery is cheap , extremely cheap

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004006#Comment_122004006

What does wokery mean?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004006#Comment_122004006

If you think libertarianism confines itself to opposing cost-free, performative policies, you don't know much about libertarianism.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004035#Comment_122004035

Coyness is cute

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004215#Comment_122004215

Define it please.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004006#Comment_122004006

They want big government out of the way only in ways that suit them. Church types love it when big government tells women what they can and can't do with their bodies, racists love it when big government oppresses migrants, the rich love it when they get tax breaks and so on…