The media unquestioningly accepting the whingeing of teachers.

Fr Tod Umptious

Im sure it's been said already if teaching is such a soft job why are there shortages, all over the country?

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969412#Comment_121969412

You think there would be a glut of teachers, with it being common knowledge of starting at 9, finishing at 3, summer holidays, Christmas, Easter, mid-terms, guaranteed contracts, PS pension. Sure it's a handy number.

Funny how that's not the case at all.

Sleepy

It's the same problem that 90% of other public sector roles have: salaries that are set at a national level make little sense for roles in areas which have vastly different costs of living.

A teacher living and working in Roscommon will be very comfortable. Her counterpart in Dublin will not.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969326#Comment_121969326

Thats the problem though, there arent plenty of talented people coming through. Highly competent people who do decide to train as teachers are leaving the job because they are also competent at recognising their worth. Teaching is a completely different job from what it was in the 1990s; a lot of reforms that have been introduced were necessary but a lot werent (see Croke Park hours etc). Smartphones and parents who cannot say no to their kids have also had serious effects on attention spans and discipline respectively. It has been said before but the current generation of teachers will be the 1st in our history not to recommend the job to their children. And it is the future generations of children that will suffer because the profession no longer attracts its fair share of the country's best and brightest.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969412#Comment_121969412

Who said it's a 'soft job'? I never for once said it was. It definitely has it's difficult parts.

But you know what? so do most jobs.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969428#Comment_121969428

It's a salary thing IMO and not the actual job itself. Lots of people would get on well at it, it's just not a 'sexy' high earning career like working for a Multi National, STEMs etc etc.

SuperBowserWorld

Here's an idea...

The people who became incredibly rich by virtue of owning a house in the right area, and who do nothing for society ...

... pay more tax to pay for essential services like teachers.

If they can't afford it, they can "downsize", and the Irish Times can write a wonderful article about it.

😆😆😆

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969315#Comment_121969315

Had they never been in a classroom before or something?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969412#Comment_121969412

Because its more financially worthwhile to head off to UAE than Leitrim?

griffin100

Teachers, a great bunch of lads. Remember when they tried to jump the queue over vulnerable people to get Covid vaccinations?

Teachers have been whining about pay and conditions for years now. The irony that they do this at conferences when they have two weeks off whilst everyone else is at work is always lost on them. They can't seem to accept the fact that their profession does not carry the kudos and instill awe in people like it once did, which is a good thing as it means they can't beat kids with impunity any more.

Teachers know exactly what they are getting into when they start out on that career path. The wages are ok but not great (unless you're a principal of a large secondary school when >€100k is possible), salaries are better when you factor in that it's a part time job (max of 166 days in a teaching year for a secondary school teacher). Yes you will have to deal with pain in the ass kids (some of whom have learning difficulties or other issues), and it's not an easy job at secondary level. If that's not for you then do somethin else. It's not like these are secrets.

Teaching is a good career choice for some, not for others. If you are happy not to live in a city then teaching is a great option as you will well be able to afford to buy a house and have a reasonable lifestyle. In fact I've tried to get my oldest kid who is at university to consider teaching, but she recognises it's not for her. Others can make that same choice.

If you want to work and live in Dublin then like a lot of people on mid level salaries you will struggle. I am in favour of a Dublin weighting for essential workers like teachers, they've been doing it in London for over a century, but Unions in Ireland will never support such a pragmatic approach.

There are still huge amounts of students doing teacher training degrees and it's now become so much easier to become a teacher, but as someone who has / had 4 kids go through primary and second level education the standard of some teachers is certainly questionable, not that they will have to answer for poor performance. And that's another advantage of being a teacher, little to no accountability. As a parent I could give lots of examples of the unaccountability and protected status of teachers some of which wouldn't be believed, I think most parents could.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969191#Comment_121969191

I think she has made a terrible decision.

She commutes every single day, presumably she isn't going down to Limerick every day. She has prioritised the occasional trip to Limerick and as a consequence made her daily commute much worse than it could have been.

Even if she goes to Limerick every weekend, surely an extra 30 mins once a week is better than a crap commute every day?

SimpleDimple

there was an article on the journal today as well about a teacher moaning that his service abroad doesn’t count towards his years service here. The level of disbelief some people have is absolutely crazy.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969218#Comment_121969218

Society will be sorry later if there's no interest in teaching

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969326#Comment_121969326

Thats the thing there's not. Huge shortage of Home EC, Science, Language and Math teachers, because of unruly classes and conditions. Many are doing what you say and taking up jobs in the private sector for far better pay, health insurance, and work from home in some cases.

So, rather than help the situation we are now left with teacher shortages, restricted choice for students and Irish teachers choosing to work abroad.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969675#Comment_121969675

It really should though. Where else would you find it that experience doing a similar job for another employer doesn't count?

The teacher in question graduated in 2012, the worst year of the recession, and couldn't get a job. He left for 4 years like thousands of others and returned to find his 4 years of experience was worthless here.

2000 vacancies in Ireland, over 4,800 Irish teachers working abroad, and half the comments here calling teachers whingers. Yah, it's the teacher's fault 🙄

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969412#Comment_121969412

Yep, there's a systemic issue when less are willing to enter nursing, teaching and the Gardai. Fundamental building blocks for a functional societ.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969695#Comment_121969695

I totally agree.

I think the penny doesn't drop with people until they have kids and are finding it difficult to find creches, schools ... or their adult kids can't afford anywhere to rent. They hope they can keep earning more to live in better places or afford private education. But that doesn't scale for a society. You have parents competing against their children. It's ridiculous. It's completely blind selfish thinking. And you see it everywhere.

SimpleDimple

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969746#Comment_121969746

I disagree here. It’s difficult to compare the teaching standards across different countries. Who to then say if you taught 3 years in a private school in the UAE its the same as teaching to the state curriculum here, with the same level of testing, scrutiny, inspections, etc. They simply don’t sync up.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969191#Comment_121969191

So she knowingly chose a longer commute, so it would make her trips home to Limerick a bit easier, but is now being granted column inches in a national newspaper to whinge about her own choice.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969795#Comment_121969795

It shouldn't count for nothing though, and the system doesn't allow for any leeway.

There are very few instances where experience in one job directly equates to another.

A nurse in Australia works under very different conditions and practices than Ireland, and their experience counts.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969800#Comment_121969800

Like a normal person she chose something that suited her specific needs. Go figure.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969746#Comment_121969746

Was the position being held for that teacher or did they completely leave the profession in Ireland?

Would teachers generally be happy for other experience to count when hiring and determining seniority levels?

This seems within the remit of reform the teachers could enact themselves if done in a reasonable way that was cost neutral.

castletownman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969800#Comment_121969800

She's probably still getting mammied sure- probably went to the college nearest to her (and thus didn't have to move away to study) and her next life goal is to settle down with a good, wholesome farmer.

RINO87

Chiming in to say THANK YOU to the teachers, especially those at second level. I cannot even begin to imagine how difficult it is to engage a group of teenagers these days, never mind actually getting something worthwhile to sink in during that short 35-40 minute window.

These people are educating our children, the good ones are worth their weight in gold. As others have said if it was so easy then why doesn't everyone do it??

I work in the private sector, and cannot imagine teaching at secondary. Primary might be fun, for a bit, but that would probably drive you bonkers after a while too…

And that's before you start dealing with parents who all know better, and having to watch yourself on nights out, at summer festivals etc...nightmare.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969877#Comment_121969877

That's pretty much it .

We have to value the people we depend upon

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969877#Comment_121969877

I agree with your sentiment, but again, who's saying it's easy? I'm not, don't think anyone else above is? There seems to be a bit of a misconception that if folks comment on teachers they think the job is easy. It's clearly not an easy job. Just a job that happens to have some of the best non pay related perks in town.

I think folks just get a bit annoyed when they see teachers whinging about things in their job that anyone going into the profession should probably know about already. Ie, being in a room full of kids/teenagers for the day. Or god forbid, having to commute.

hoodie6029

’Give us a 25% pay increase or we’ll withdraw yard supervision’

‘We should be covid vaccinated first!’

‘Quick! Pull up the ladder or we’ll lose our cushy terms and pensions. To hell with the new lot!’

‘You didn’t do your teacher training in Ireland and now you want a job here?? You must be having a laugh?’

“‘But the children! THE CHILDREN!!’

‘Doesn’t the Union represent the pay and conditions of the union members first and foremost?’

‘Shhh…shut up!’”

Union: Norma! SORT OUT GAZA!!

Norma: I’m the Minister for Education

Union: SORT OUT GAZA! SORT OUT GAZA!

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969595#Comment_121969595

It might also been influenced by the choice available. People in this thread have said "sure she could have picked X place" but a quick search on daft shows that everywhere has a shortage of places. Maybe she chose to live along that route and that was the only place she could find to rent.

Viscount Aggro

They should head across to the Isle of Man.

A secondary school teacher I know, an he is middle-aged…. earns about 28K.

Sunny Disposition

It's not that teaching is an easy job, but it is very well rewarded and for some reason the delusions of teachers are indulged greatly.

People in all sorts of jobs have 80 minute commutes, but it's doubtful that many people in other jobs would have their whinge about it published in the Irish Times. Members of all sorts of professions, many of them less well paid and all of them with less annual leave, are disadvantaged by high property prices, but again when it comes to teachers doors the media decide to write about it.

Maybe I'm being naive and it's not a failing of the media, but an exercise in clickbait by the Irish Times as they know irritated private sector workers will engage with it.