Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself? [Threadbanned users in 1st post]

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007270#Comment_122007270

See my post just before yours in this respect.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007093#Comment_122007093

I'm genuinely baffled. Surely one the very first duties of a moderator on this site is to protect it against libel??

Your words above that this person 'Gemma IS a hateful lunatic' along with Capall's slurs are just very ill advised. Do you think before you hit Post?

I wouldn't be a great fan exactly of the proposed Hate Speech bill but if it addresses this sort of language directly used against an individual, well maybe it's needed.

If I used language like this against a named individual, I'd expect to be banned!

soap1978

Boards is done ,they ruined it a few years ago when they change the site,no app either ,the man utd chat use to be very busy has gone now because of the new way of doing things

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007160#Comment_122007160

ah Jesus man it’s like you’re taking the mick? Gemma o Doherty, the same one who’s been arrested and in court tomorrow for harassing a woman who’s son died, falsely claiming he died as a result of Covid vaccines and you’re worried one of her family members might see?

Look, I think it’s safe to say Gemma’s family is well aware of craic. Does it strike you at all as maybe a bit weird you never hear of her family being in support, to my knowledge they didn’t attend court yesterday for instance. I doubt they’ll be there tomorrow either.

Tell me this if I warned you for calling O’Doherty a lunatic would you accept that or take it to DRP? Seriously?

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006889#Comment_122006889

You were soapboxing that patent thread. You kept making the same point over and over and over again, and when it is explained to you over and over and over again you are ignoring the explanation.

It concerns me that you don't realise that you're soapboxing this thread, given your recent DRP.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007287#Comment_122007287

There is no liable, only defamation. Insults are not defamation. Hate speech does not include insults🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007287#Comment_122007287

furze, genuine question for you.

What do you call someone who harasses the mother of a young man who died, posting lies in their newspaper about his cause of death and trying to link it to covid vaccines in order to suggest they are dangerous?

Or about someone who thinks Hitler was a right lad and the Jews invented the holocaust?

Or about someone who harasses members of the public and Gardai both on and off camera?

Do you think that’s a well put together individual?

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007299#Comment_122007299

I don’t think it’s fair to blame boards for united fans going quiet. It’s fairly well known that a, rather, large chunk of Irish united fans no longer “support” the club.

They have moved on and now have, either, stopped following soccer, altogether, or they’ve started following League of Ireland, specifically Bohs and Shamrock Rovers.

While this is great for LoI, you would have to fear for their attendance should United start winning leagues again. The fickle, fair weather, ex-United fans would leave them just as quick.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007303#Comment_122007303

It wouldn’t get to that point. I wouldn’t be calling someone a known person outside of boards as a ‘lunatic’ on a public forum

Big Bag of Chips

Lads can we get back to the feedback please. It has been said on multiple occasions specific comments or threads will not be discussed in this thread.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007330#Comment_122007330

You don’t call her anything. You don’t refer to her as a personal insult.

This is it

You can call GO'D what you like, you can't call Bidan "sleepy Joe", and in Soccer you can't use nicknames for managers/players. Wouldn't it be better to just have a "no abuse" rule rather than picking and choosing from thread to thread?

FWIW, I do think she's a lunatic.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007379#Comment_122007379

It appears that the thread has just become another mod bashing thread, as well as a place for posters to post whatever they feel like about other posters, with no repercussions.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007268#Comment_122007268

You get it exactly.

Well said.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007287#Comment_122007287

That has nothing to do with hate speech. That is libal.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007352#Comment_122007352

Interested now to see if the mods can see what the rest of us can see.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007428#Comment_122007428

How do you mean?

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007411#Comment_122007411

As expected, it's gone into a loop with certain posters just repeating themselves.

Goldengirl

Took two posts to make some sort of apology for the offhand comment which I politely called out in the first instance . Thanks for that but its not to me but all

of us here who are making an effort to contribute to this thread .

You could have just said you didn't rate every post but have been reading them . You said " every post wasn't worth reading " 😕

I am glad you and the other Mods are taking on some of the feedback (that's what I am sure most of us posting here would hope ) and whether you adjust your style or not, it is good that consideration is being given to it , at least.

Edit to add ..just read all of the posts about stuff on another thread and totally get what you mean now about "quality " !

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007330#Comment_122007330

But when you rightly call out some footballers on the soccer forum, for assults on women, the Mods card you.

WHere is the consistency?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007268#Comment_122007268

Thanks for your good posts , tmh .

I do get what you are saying but am not sure how it would help .

There will be discussions you say of a different level in a sectioned off group and the same discussions on CA ... Am I right ?

Is that not more work for the already stretched CA mods ?

What I have suggested is more mods on CA which might solve the issues you and I are talking about .

If a mod can have more time to stay with a contentious thread and read the posts and flow of discussion properly, before actioning , they will then not only stay on top of trolling (low level) , and a poster would probably not receive a warning like you describe just on the basis of another posters report ( if that is what you suspect happened?)

ie they would have more time and information to judge the situation for themselves .

This is why some of the threads with less traffic are not generating as much complaint imo . The mods have more time to read and form an opinion as to who is being genuine and who is causing trouble . And they have time to give feedback as well .

Maybe then when those threads are going well a group like you mention could be set up also , as the other part of the forum.

You are saying that this private group does not need moderation but surely that is looking for trouble in so far as anything could be happening in there that could potentially cause legal or other problems for the site ?

There would have to be a mod keeping an eye .

Or is it just when somebody reports that a mod intervenes ?

Sorry for the questions, just haven't been on the private groups so just trying to understand what it entails .

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007287#Comment_122007287

Thing about libel, furze, it has to be untrue , afaik .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007608#Comment_122007608

That is about what I was saying yes. A whinge about a mod saying mean things about GoD of all people is hardly valuable feedback that benefits the site as a whole.

I really can’t see how those particular posts need to be dragged into this thread for any other reason than to have a go at mods, again.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007767#Comment_122007767

There will be discussions you say of a different level in a sectioned off group and the same discussions on CA ... Am I right ?

Is that not more work for the already stretched CA mods ?

No. Because the mods are no longer wasting time on conflicts that are now allowable within the access only area.

There would be moderation there, but for cut and dried infractions, not the type of excessive moderation (in a lot of cases) that they end up being involved with.

There will be low level trolls etc, but now, they could be called a troll within that space or ignored or whatever and I feel that this would overall lead to a more favorable outcome than what has existed. I feel a lot of mod time at the moment is dealing with mundane type stuff that if posters could call out the behaviour themselves, it would be less of an issue than what the moderation is.

I haven't seen mods acting on CA AH threads in years (literal years) from a position where I feel they are engaged in the discussion and know the context of how it has gone. I feel probably 95% plus of moderation in those spaces is now as a consequence of flagged posts and that in those instances, it's often done without appropriate context.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007649#Comment_122007649

that’s mad it’s almost as if different forums have different rules and standards of posting?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007956#Comment_122007956

I get you now.

Should have context if reading the threads though.

Sounds good . I agree about calling it out or ignoring .

Feels really good to call it out though :) …until you get that incoming message ." You've been warned ..." !

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008007#Comment_122008007

We're all adults here, I want it to be a pleasant site. But I recognize there are evocative topics and its impossible to remain calm in relation to all of them. But whether by accident or design, the style of moderation that has existed in places like CA and AH since the changeover, where you couldn't react on thread in any way whatsoever, has made it less so.

I've been warned for 'attacking the poster' and when I responded giving a post number on a thread where I was referenced by name in a derogatory manner I was told by the mod that that thread had nothing to do with them. (They are the most senior mod on the site) The forum of the thread I was referring to had no CMod at the time and no effective moderation and so the post remained.

That's beyond frustrating.

Leg End Reject

I can see the merit in having a more free for all forum tucked away, but all you need is one poster with a grudge to report the posts of posters they've had a run in with and it will quickly become a time sink for mods.

It would need to start with a ban for spurious reporters, but that will again set off a Feedback thread complaining about mods.

It's a vicious circle.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008082#Comment_122008082

to be fair I’m not sure how much of that type of thing would actually happen. The controversial opinion thread in AH doesn’t have endless reports from posters trying to get at posters they don’t like.

callaway92

FWIW in my complaining about mods, I was asked to be a moderator here on one of the sports forums but just seeing the tone of some mods even in this thread I wouldn’t want to be associated with it.

People are saying to not make this a mod bashing thread, but I (and others) clearly need to at least give feedback into what we believe is ruining the site.

We are trying to help the site, but just look at the tone of comments from some mods and you’ll see why some people just don’t bother anymore. Unwarranted arrogance at times.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008082#Comment_122008082

Would it not become clear that that is what they are doing though?

The mod would review and say, 'not actionable, not actionable, not actionable' and so on and could comment on thread saying flagged posts don't break charter of this space so maybe this isn't the space for you.

I don't know how exactly it would play out. I do expect it might not be pleasant for lots of the site users, hence keeping it locked unless you ask to have access.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008150#Comment_122008150

Yes, if the thread is read to get the full context.

We have been told before that mods don't read all threads (understandably), but they do respond to reported posts.

You and I have disagreed on threads before but I've never reported your posts, I've never actually seen you being uncivil. But what if I decided to report a post if we got into a heated discussion? One post in isolation could look actionable unless the context is understood and other posts looked at.

I do see the merit in your proposal and it would be good if it was workable.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008159#Comment_122008159

No, in this instance, the decision can be made that posts are inactionable precisely because context can be excluded. Each post can be read on its merits but because the benchmark of what is inappropriate is higher now, context is less relevant.

Say the situation exists as you describe and you flag a post I made, the only thing I would consider suitable for action is if I called you a swear word or swore at you or was derogatory along the lines of discrimination etc.

What I feel has been happening is that people have been using the technicality of what is actionable to try to remove their opponents from the debate. Oh this poster went off topic, flag it. This poster mentioned another poster, that's attacking the poster, flag it, this poster responded to me only with smiley emoji, flag it and so on.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008183#Comment_122008183

So off topic posts are allowed? Thats not debating the topic. Threads will become a total mess.

Baiting another poster by mentioning another poster negatively or misrepresenting them is allowed? Thats not debating.

Badgering them? Trolling them with smiley emojis or memes etc? Thats not debating the topic either.

Which leads to posters responding with the next level of insults and swearing and after all that ... you want the mods to action the person who responds to the baiting. And leave the troll free to continue with negative behaviour. Thats another way to kill a debate.

What you have outlined is a charter for trolls, blatant and for low level trolling and baiting etc

Threads will quickly become toxic. Or killed by dragging them off topic.

Its also a charter for soapboxing. Dumping stuff into a thread, hit and running and ignoring the responses. Thats not debating either. You can put the direct posts by troll or soapboxer on ignore but enough other posters will take the bait and you will still see their crap indirectly.

So those are not technicalities. There's good reasons why they are actionable. And context is needed to spot such conduct.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008209#Comment_122008209

This sounds like you feel these practices don't exist in other mediums or indeed in real world conversations/debates/interactions. And in the real world, when someone smiles dismissively or references another topic we don't pick up our toys and go home. Or go calling for someone to come in and discipline the offender. Which is what happens here all too often.

And as I said, the picture perfect versions of threads can still exist outside the access only area. It's just having this area allows those comfortable in that environment to find it on the platform.

So they feel they can argue as they feel the need justifies, mods don't feel the need to get involved as frequently. And users no longer have to deal with petty infractions influencing threads as has been happening.

And have your soapboxing, if people can react without fear of infraction, it may be the case that less people are inclined to act like that. This type of area could be self-policing in a way a lot of the site is not.

And aside from this area being access request only, have it so users have to be a member of the site for 3 months and have say 100 or 200 posts on CA topics for example before being granted access. Something like that could minimize those signing up to just act inappropriately.

Cormacca87

If I could offer my opinion (I was once here under a different username) - This whole site is like the bridge of the Enterprise.

It started off with everyone arguing, from the time of the changes being made to the site. The ship was sailing into the sun and no-one could agree on how to save it.

Now, it's even closer still. Starting to break up & no-one is really in control.

What a great place it was, however its days sadly look numbered.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007967#Comment_122007967

I expected something less flippant

Maybe a basic standard of common sense in modding across all forums is too much to ask for.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008183#Comment_122008183

Its generally my experience that action is only taken when a person verbally attacks another boards member with the intent to make them less likely to want to contribute to that thread because of that hostility.

Calahonda52

re

Charleigh Tinkling SquadronApr 11, 2024

that’s mad it’s almost as if different forums have different rules and standards of posting? 

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007649#Comment_122007649

Charleigh Tinkling Squadron, it not almost, it is: I have been on here nearly since day 1, am on 5th username, have seen it all and some

Mods are human

I keep asking the question, what are the rules that say you can't delete threads, rather than indulging the crackheads, with bans etc

Tom Mann Centuria

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007115#Comment_122007115

Maybe this year will be different.

Stand by for change aplenty, the rejuvenation of Boards and the reintroduction of :pac:

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008499#Comment_122008499

Like I said previously, if the admins were to sign off on making soccer public, I'm quite happy to mod it. Won't get any argument from me.

Big Bag of Chips

I miss :pac:

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008597#Comment_122008597

Better than Biggie imo.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008597#Comment_122008597

same can we have it back? I think that will fix everything tbh

redunited

The site has to comply with the law, with the new Hate Speech Laws literally around the corner everything we say has to be moderated.

It's not boards.ie that is a graveyard but the ability to openly and freely discuss online that is dying, the site either applies a hard stance on freedom of expression or it closes up shop.

The mods and Admins are not Barristers, they are not going to test the government to see how far they can push freedom of speech/expression, so they will make a judgment call and be cautious in everything they do. This in the eyes of the poster comes across as harsh moderation but what else can they do? Make a stand and get the site closed down?

If anyone is to blame, then it's the state of our government that wants to shut us all up.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008220#Comment_122008220

Oh, and do they call a moderator in for the stuff that you still want infracted?

Nope. They just get up and walk away or stop debating that topic.

So your "real life" and "other mediums" comparison falls at the first fence.

This is not a charter to encourage debate, it is a charter for trolling, baiting and soap boxing. Killing threads by dragging them off topic. Flooding threads with **** as Steve Bannon would call it. Impossible for any sort of real debate to occur. It would be a toxic cesspit.

So instead of "petty infractions" influencing threads, threads would be influenced by soap boxing, propaganda dumps, conspiracy theories baiting, niggling, threads being dragged way off topic and posters talking past each other as half them will have the other half on ignore.

Self policing isn't going to stop any of that.

And then what sort of debate can occur under those conditions?

It would be a far worse situation than now. It'd be like getting rid of all rules in soccer except yellow and red card offences. You wouldnt get free flowing game of football. Just dragging, holding, tripping shutting down a game from occurring.

You'd have to have mods moderating that forum, for offensive content which breaks the rules, and for when posters respond to the inevitable baiting.

And seemingly moderating the "picture perfect" version of the threads. So you're significantly increasing the workload for CA type mods.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008763#Comment_122008763

I disagree. Strongly.

When you're ready, let us know your suggestions to improve the traffic, retention and experience of users on the site.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008803#Comment_122008803

I don't have to have made suggestions in order to point out what I see as flaws in what is suggested.

But as it happens, I've already made several over the course of the thread.

As well as listing the positives about the site that bring me here.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008301#Comment_122008301

I understand where you are coming from, but different forums do have different standards. There is a site wide bare minimum expected in terms of posting standards but each individual forum will have their own specifics on top of that. That's just natural in a site that has a very diverse set of forums.

For example, you cannot expect to hold the same standard of post in Current Affairs vs Politics, the two forums are too different.

The Soccer forum has strict rules about abusing players because the childish name calling was a big problem there. It wasn't that we woke up one day and decided we better introduce a new rule on that in Soccer out of the blue, it was Soccer posters who got fed up with the nonsense.

Individual forums will naturally adopt their own rules over time based on what gets reported a lot by the posters who post there etc.

If you are expecting total consistency across the entire site you're going to be disappointed, it's just not possible. What we do expect is consistency in applying the charter in each individual forum.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008809#Comment_122008809

You didn't point out flaws, you just gave your unproven opinion. Which is fine, it's a discussion innit.

Link to those suggestions please. I want to consider what we can do, not what we can't do. (Or supposedly so)