Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself? [Threadbanned users in 1st post]

PmMeUrDogs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999504#Comment_121999504

Genuinely think that's a great idea.

There's definitely a place and a need for serious discussion, and I've often read CA threads in their entirety because some make for really good reading and knowledge. But AH seems to have been in decline since the separation a few years back or whenever it was.

I agree with the need for a "serious" space like CA, but plenty of people want to discuss current affairs in a way that isn't quite so severe in manner.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999709#Comment_121999709

It will just evolve as it did before.

There is already the politics forum yet most of the chat happens in CA. CA isnt even the 'serious' space.

Hide CA away and AH will just end up as CA. You will have the same posters and topics that are on CA today but on AH.

Thats why CA was split off from AH.

Look at the top threads in CA. How could they be discussed in a less 'serious' / severe manner? You either couldnt discuss it or they would just end up becoming exactly as they are now. Because inevitably serious / severe points would be made.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993722#Comment_121993722

What I like about Boards is that no matter what the subject. No matter how black and white one believes an issue to be there will always be someone with a different, often well considered opinion.

I think this is the value of the site for me. It should be allowed to be opposite of an echo chamber. Heavy handed modding makes this much more difficult.

Big Bag of Chips

Just a note regarding viewing "Thanks".

On the mobile site if you tap the 3 dots at the top of a post and select "Log" you should be able to see all the thanks.

On desktop it's a little more restricted. You can hover over the "Thanks" button and it shows you I think 6-8 of the thanks.

Can a poster other than a mod test this for me? I know it's visible to us.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999800#Comment_121999800

On desktop if you go to the profile of the user you want to check who thanked their post go to "reactions" and you can see more if not all those who thanked the post AFAIK.

Edit

I think it's restricted to 10 thanks.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999800#Comment_121999800

There is no 'log' option on mobile on chrome, just a 'flag' option

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999800#Comment_121999800

On iOS mobile, the three dots on a post when tapped gives only the option to flag a post.

Big Bag of Chips

Thanks both. @sydthebeat are you on Android or iPhone?

sydthebeat

Android.

Hannibal_Smith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999781#Comment_121999781

This is it for me too. I think it was the Irish Independent who had the tag line 'Before you make up your kind open it' and this is what boards does for me anyhow. Sometimes I read a news story and I think you have all the angles to allow me make a decision and then I come on boards and you'll have people explain their experiences, or knowledge that fill in the in between the lines bit. It makes it very interesting.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999478#Comment_121999478

AH/CA were excluded from POTD back in the day. But it was usually some meme in CVPL that won it.

Tork

I don't understand why there are separate Politics and Current Affairs forums. Sometimes there are threads on the same thing running in both.

Calahonda52

The key to this question is what SEO data is being used to attract advertisers and other revenue sources.

IMO, the platform is far too indulgent of open brackets ( racists….)

The other problem with modern discourse today is that if I take issue with whats happening in Gaza you are flagged as anti Jew

eg inside paywall but enough visible

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/educate-together-row-after-antisemitism-allegations-in-wake-of-ceos-protest-post-and-call-for-boycott-of-israel/a489962002.html

We had the same with the gay marriage/recent referendums etc

Its all reduced to a binary argument: for or against.

BB over on AM just deletes sh$t he does not want on his site, end of.

A lot to be said for it

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999891#Comment_121999891

Politics is the “high brow” forum, they won’t tolerate CA-style posts.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999747#Comment_121999747

I don't think CA is the serious place, it is the 'heated' place. But the heated discussions are the ones that I think need some sort of space, but try to limit their negative impact while allowing them to serve their need better than what is currently happening. The politics forum is indeed the place for serious discussions and works well in this way I feel.

CA being hidden from all except those who requested access may influence this.

And if contentious threads were polluting AH, move them to CA and inform the OP or users that they need to request access to the forum if they want to take part.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999969#Comment_121999969

So you could have threads on the same topic, say Russia-Ukraine war Or say Hate Crime Bill.

On Politics, CA, and AH.

And the same posters potentially posting on all three? With the same standard of posting in CA and AH.

I can't see it working. It will be very obvious from the outset of most threads that it will end up heated.

if contentious threads were polluting AH, move them to CA and inform the OP or users that they need to request access to the forum if they want to take part.

That's exactly what was happening and why CA was created. This will just restart and repeat the cycle.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999969#Comment_121999969

It would be great if a ban from CA could extend to AH or, even, “Social & Fun” in its entirety.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999985#Comment_121999985

With the same standard of posting in CA and AH

No. That is the point.

And it might seem so much like things becoming heated, that people just stay away. I'd imagine it would become an echo chamber of sorts for some discussions. But that might be a price you have to pay if it means allowing more of the platform to function as it is intended. Its a room with no windows and you have to ask to enter.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999891#Comment_121999891

Politics is Pat Kenny

CA is Niall Boylan

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000052#Comment_122000052

People can stay away from Current Affairs as things stand today.

If you pitch this new CA forum to have a lower\looser standard of posting than CA does now, it will presumably still need a lot of moderation for personal abuse, trolling, threadbans etc. And CA is one of the most actively moderated forums I imagine given volume of posts.

I don't think the platform intended to function as an echo chamber either nor as an unmoderated free for all for such discussions.

And then seemingly you have AH discussion of current affairs moderated to the same standard CA is now. Or else the topics not discussed at all. So even more heavily moderated actually.

Doesn't add up for me at all, but you have made your case so it is for the powers that be to assess.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000098#Comment_122000098

A much “lighter touch” form of moderation in CA would be great. Let posters know that reported posts, short of abuse, won’t be actioned.

This would keep the CA “types” away from the, more, normal parts of the site and you could have, somewhat, serious discussions in AH while, also, having a laugh.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000124#Comment_122000124

I don't see the benefits. Based on what you have outlined, you would just have the CA discussions that are happening now in CA in AH. And possibly some free for alls in CA with lighter touch moderation - maybe that would appeal to some.

But nothing to stop the CA "types" from "moonlighting" on the corresponding AH threads, posting to the same standard they are currently posting to in CA right now. So why wouldn't they?

pjohnson

CA was created to keep some of the more troll like dregs away from AH iirc.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000165#Comment_122000165

It seems like shuffling the problem posters around rather than tackling root cause.

awec

@Gusser09 this isn't a place to moan about specific mod actions against you. Take it to DRP.

Post deleted.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999969#Comment_121999969

It's however many years later and they still can't even stop PI/RI threads appearing on the front page. So I can 100% guarantee that all of the above is utterly beyond Vanilla.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999969#Comment_121999969

Then how is it decided who takes part in the discussion?

Another can of worms!

While I agree with you that the discussion needs to be allowed to flow, the problem with that is how far , as some will take that as am excuse to troll and be uncivil and it will still end up being moderated then in the end ?

I also agree with what you said about moving CA so it's less visible but not with making it a private group .

It'll end up as a group of the same posters with similar views and most likely just an echo chamber so that there won't be any inconvenient disagreements.

I think the contentious CA threads need more moderators than a lot of the hobby sites and the charter needs to be updated to limit repetitive arguments , spamming and low level trolling

Also @Big Bag of Chips are banned posters rereg-ing more common now since Vanilla or is it the same as it always was or more difficult to spot ?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000124#Comment_122000124

A sensible suggestion there now.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001030#Comment_122001030

"I think the contentious CA threads need more moderators than a lot of the hobby sites and the charter needs to be updated to limit repetitive arguments , spamming and low level trolling"

Be careful what you wish for!!! It'd certainly reduce the post count from a good few.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001221#Comment_122001221

I am fully aware and think that may be a positive in some threads .

If it makes for a more constructive and pleasant experience for all or certainly for those who just want to discuss freely without constant bickering or without being got at personally I am completely on board ,no pun intended .

Would be some of the other fora that need more post traffic .

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001030#Comment_122001030

Then how is it decided who takes part in the discussion?

Another can of worms!

Same as it is decided on the soccer forum. Those who want to be in that environment request access to it and then take part as they wish. Those that don't, don't.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001569#Comment_122001569

Have never wanted to be in the soccer forum so would not have known that!

So do people get refused access and on what basis , is my point or why is that access pemission necessary ? Or is it to just block browsing or reading/ lurking / repeat offenders ?

I can see how it would reduce footfall alright to those discussions or control them .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001826#Comment_122001826

soccer used to be open for all many many moons ago.
But soccer is a contentious topic at times and trolling etc was unmanageable so it became restricted access.
if it was opened up to everyone again t would be Armageddon for the mods.

I’m not a soccer mod but that is my understanding of the reasons.

Calahonda52

More of the binary type stuff that is a problem here and else where

German university rescinds US scholar’s job offer over pro-Palestinian letter

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/apr/10/nancy-fraser-cologne-university-germany-job-offer-palestine

the following is striking

"Cologne University said in a statement its decision to cancel the invitation had been made “with great regret”. It said the reason was that in the letter signed by Fraser, “Israel’s right to exist as an ‘ethno-supremacist state’ since its foundation in 1948 is called into question. The terror attacks by Hamas on Israel of 7 October 2023 is [sic] elevated to an act of legitimate resistance.”

ethno-supremacist state… wtf

A lot of BS could be removed if troublesome stuff was just deleted: what will they do?

go to ECHR ….

Tom Mann Centuria

Soccer opened up for big tournaments before and was tolerable, and since the considerable drop off in numbers I honestly don't see the harm in at least trying.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002258#Comment_122002258

Soccer had many trolls and reregs. Between being banned and the Vanilla move, Soccer is a lot better I think at the moment. The quantity of posts is down overall but the quality has improved.

Opening Soccer up could lead it back to the bad old days and really would be an absolute headache for Mods - far less Soccer Mods now than before also and getting New Soccer Mods is a lot harder than you think.

If we opened it up and it didn't work, I'm not sure how easy it would be to revert to a Group, would each poster need to be Re Admitted by a Mod like they currently are ( That would not happen) or can Vanilla do it with a flick of a switch, for all 6894 posters who currently have access? I wouldn't trust Vanilla to get it right if I'm honest - but maybe it is something Admins can do easily?

As it currently stands, if you want access to the Soccer Forum, a 1 line post in the Soccer Access Thread is all that is needed. Once you have 50 posts, or are a long term poster with less, you will be given access 99% of the time - if you have a Rake of Warnings, you might be asked to try again in a couple of months if free from any further warnings.

If a poster won't even post 1 line for access. I very much doubt they would add very many posts to the Forum anyway or have any interest at all.

con747

How about putting restrictions on certain posters who have a constant need to open new threads about complete sh1te? There is a few come to mind who are like a plague with the amount of new threads about nonsense and it is just mad to leave them at it. I think most here know who I mean.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002258#Comment_122002258

But a weird one recently was the Stephen Kenny thread in AH, that was allowed run. It ended up a thread with a few individuals constantly posting personal insults about SK, with a lite touch modding.

Never understood how it was deemed OK outside the soccer forum.

Hodors Appletart

I had a look into the Soccer Forum last week for the first time in years, I think I even posted in the LOI thread.

It's a shadow of it's former self, and I'd have been posting in it since the early 00s if not before. I was there the day it was closed and eventually re-opened under the access rules.

It's such a pity to see it's just megathreads, and not much else. Is there just not the user numbers to have discussions separated out into more niche, narrow topic threads? Do the users not make threads discussing things that are not megathread material, or are threads started and then shunted into the megathreads? Not being a regular there I just don't know. I'd never click into a megathread of a club I don't support, or a league I don't support a team in.

Christ, just looking again, only 9 threads have had posts today. Wow, I'm honestly shocked by that.

*****

Maybe related, maybe not - I think the main issue with the site, from my own personal perspective is that low level trollery is just not actioned as quickly as it should be. I'm also an ex-mod (not on this account) and I remember you'd almost need a book of evidence before taking any sort of "severe" action against someone, over and above a yellow or red card, certainly a forum ban or whatever.

A while ago, I had cause to report someone who had taken it upon themselves to start trolling me and follow me into a forum where I do regularly post, and start threads and make posts that were clearly and obviously designed to disrupt - it took weeks of back and forth with mods, Cmods and eventually Mike, to get anything done about it. There was historically in the distant past, more recently with the incident I'm talking about, and it seems even now, a sort of reluctance to do anything about these disruptors, for fear of offending an innocent or something. It's weird.

*****

Positives - honestly, I come here daily for the niche forums I have an interest in, where there is still a small community of like-minded people, and it's still the only place on the internet where you can get wholly Irish answers to what are often hobbies or interests that get overtaken by americans or brits on other forums, or sites like Reddit. I'm big into coffee, and love the coffee forum here. Irish Cricket, Darts, Beer Wine and Spirits, Food and the Politics forum are other ones I visit when the mind takes me. They are generally well modded, and have people just happy to have others to chat to about those things, in an Irish context.

But there is no real camaraderie like there was in the old days, and it's a pity. I'm in a WhatsApp group of ex-Boards members, most of us have been mods at some point afaik, and none of us are regulars here any more. We "met" on this website through a common interest, had good craic on the forum "chat" thread and became friends in real life.

That aspect of boards is gone, and I think it was by design at one stage.

Anyway, boards is still a good place to get niche Irish answers to what are either very local issues, or interests, or specific Irish input to what can be global imterests, it just might take a day or two where in the past it was an hour or two.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002690#Comment_122002690

not joking can you send me a link to that thread if possible? I’ll take a look.

Tom Mann Centuria

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002556#Comment_122002556

Due respect and all that, but people aren't going to apply to join a soccer forum when they probably have no idea one even exists on Boards, they are never going to see anything that's discussed on the front page.

They'll never think ooh, actually I think Chelsea WILL win the League next season, and Pochettino IS a great manager etc. I'd like to add my insightful response so I'll apply to join the soccer forum.

As I said previously, it opened up for Euro/World Cup before and wasn't bad, and that was when we had loads (and loads) more posters, including a few low-level trolls and I don't remember anyone thinking it was a disaster. If the argument is there aren't enough mods, they should make more of/some kind of effort to get more.

If they want to trial it, mothball Groups, I'm sure they could leave it untouched and revert back to it if Soccer in the big wide world of Boards turns in to a shítshow.

Just a suggestion anyway, I doubt it would be done, as I doubt anything meaningful will be done.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002906#Comment_122002906

This is it. Was closed by yourself in the end actually

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058248941/cult-of-stephen-kenny

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002907#Comment_122002907

I see your point, but, it is hardly fill out an application form is it, a one liner shouldn't put anyone out.

Every Sport - including Soccer - is listed under Sports on the homepage, so not exactly hard to find and it contains the Access thread.

There has been a lot of work trying to get new Mods down the years, believe me. There are only around 4 active Soccer Mods and you would be surprised how few posters actually want to step up.

Mothballing Groups - it would be interesting to see if that could be done - with the issues we still see with Vanilla, I'm not sure could that be a runner. If it is a possibility, I'm sure Admins will look into it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002920#Comment_122002920

Ohh yeah I remember that one now the major problem if I recall correctly was posters who were banned from soccer were using the thread to discuss soccer generally and act the maggot.

Suppose it’s an example of why it might not be a great idea to open up soccer to all.

Goldengirl

One could see Boards die another bit a day at a time if the CA forum changed to group access only .

If people can't see what's trending on CA it loses the Current in Current Affairs ..except for a few in the know .of course.

Not sure how that helps the site.

@ShamoBuc

@ShamoBuc id argue the more cumbersome thing re vanilla is how groups are a pain to find! Requesting access is not a big deal if you genuinely are interested imo.

Besides it used to be more difficult you had to read the Charter and find out the two phrases in italics to demonstrate you did, which had to be in your request! I think you mentioned above that’s no longer the case.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003153#Comment_122003153

Yep it became infested with people banned from the soccer forum.

Why was it allowed run so long?

Necro

As a current soccer mod I'm not opposed to having an open access forum. I'm sure Boards lost a bit of traffic with Soccer going private even if a lot could only view the threads. It's not really for me to decide though, I'm only one voice. There is a yearly feedback thread which runs at the close of the season and that's probably the best place to get a discussion going on public vs private. Most of the current posters there may very well be quite happy with the current set up.

If it was to go public access though, the forum would definitely need a good few more mods especially in the beginning and as ShamoBuc has highlighted getting people to help out is quite challenging.

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003170#Comment_122003170

Yep old forum had that issue surely. Now it's just a one liner post to request access. You're right about the groups though, sometimes we find people requesting access that had been grandfathered in with the Vanilla switch and they didn't even know. So we will always tell people to check under Groups for Soccer now to point them in the right direction.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003170#Comment_122003170

Looking for the 2 phrases was a bit of a chore - we also had to remember to change them all the time too !

I think that AH Soccer thread that was eventually closed, could be an example of what Could happen if we opened it up again - but if the powers that be wish to Trial it we could see if it is in some way feasable.