Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself? [Threadbanned users in 1st post]

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003325#Comment_122003325

I used to just access it to hear about the team I followed but tried lately and I can't access it anymore. Is there a time frame that you need to be active or you get removed? I never posted so was never banned!

pjohnson

Tbf the reason its only megathreads is because thanks to vanilla you cant just follow the entire "soccer" board anymore. Thus any new op's posted in the private group dont appear in the homepage and obviously aren't followed by any regulars (as it was just created) so it goes unseen.

Before if you followed the soccer board any new thread would appear in your following section.

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003344#Comment_122003344

Just checked for you there you seem to still be a member. If you select the Groups option on the side menu it should show up for you

Feisar

I like boards, always have since I stumbled across it back in the day. On my second username as I forgot the password for my previous one after a hiatus. The Irish-centric(ness) across a broad range of topics is great. Sure there is r/ireland on reddit but that's just After Hours/Current Affairs not much specialist stuff there. Also the upvote/downvote thing, I like reading forums in a cohesive manner. One could hear about something and come on here and get a flavour of both sides of a debate/topic. Unfortunately the format doesn't suit younger people these days. I'd say that's the way with forums generally and not just a boards.ie specific issue.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003191#Comment_122003191

We don’t really close threads just because they surround a topic where a forum exists already. some seem to think AH is only here so you can have a place to shitpost or take the piss but its really more of a general discussion forum.

There’s few threads in AH closed or moved to be honest and usually I’d only do it myself in cases where it’s an obvious troll, the OP is lost and is looking for a serious answer to a question/some advice or it’s AMKC.

bucketybuck

In the last two soccer feedback threads I very strongly got the sense that mods were happy with how the forum was running, how there was very little disruption, few flashpoints, little trolling, it was ticking away nicely.

Yet few seemed to point out the obvious, there is no trouble because there is no anything, it is a ghost town. Of course there are no bar fights, nobody goes to your bar.

If the priority is a tidy bar and less work for the mods then grand, carry on then. It will be nice and tidy when it finally closes.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003530#Comment_122003530

Not sure how you got this impression.

Firstly, in the feedback threads it is users who post their views on how things are going (particularly how the moderation is going), not the mods. The feedback from soccer users the past number of years has been overwhelmingly positive.

As for it being a ghost town, Soccer is very active, probably the most active of all sports forums and one of the most active forums on the site outside of AH and CA.

Making it public again has been discussed numerous times by the mods and admins. Soccer used to be a mess with trolls and re-regs, and the question is whether the potential increase in post quantity is worth the drop in post quality. So far the answer has been no.

Hodors Appletart

One more thing, and it's more of a meta comment than anything really.

When this type of thread comes up every once in a while, there is invariably a flurry of engagement from Mods, Cmods, Admins and whoever else, and they always say there are good points being made, they are being discussed on the mod forums, between cmods and admins etc, and sometimes there's even a promise that at some undefined future point they'll come back and give updates. That last part never happens.

What I think would be good to see would be a sort of list of things from this thread that are being discussed, and then come back in, say, 4 weeks and outline the outcome.

We heard you saying x, y, z and here are the changes we are implementing in relation to those points.

We heard you saying a, b, c but there aren't really any changes we can make there due to restraints of Vanilla

We heard you saying m, n, o and we don't think the points were constructive, and we think we are doing ok on those things and nothing will be changing

Then leave the thread open for a further week for any feedback in relation to decisions made, then close it.

I don't want to go digging for previous threads, but it's almost guaranteed to be the case that the eventually get locked, piddle out and there is never any feedback about the feedback - it'd be amazing, if this time that was different.

Big Bag of Chips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004259#Comment_122004259

Absolutely!

I know posters don't know what's going on in the background and often it can seem like absolutely nothing is being done. But there is always discussion ongoing in the background. Always.

Lots of the issues posters have raised here are issues the moderators are aware of. Bearing in mind all the moderators are posters themselves. So the things that frustrate posters also frustrate moderators. But sometimes it's not a simple solution.

There are complaints of heavy handed moderation, deleting or closing threads etc. Yet there's also calls for certain posters to be actioned and their right to post be removed etc because they are rubbing people up the wrong way. This sort of thing is very difficult to call. And whatever decision is made will inevitably annoy someone!

We will bring feedback to the thread. That's something that should be done. Posters really have invested a lot of time and consideration into providing feedback. I know we have acknowledged it all and we do appreciate the time people have taken. We've ruled out some suggestions on the thread already, but have absolutely taken other suggestions back to the moderators. All moderators have been asked to read this thread and we even have a feedback-on-the-feedback thread running ourselves at the moment!

I've said it already on thread, there's not going to be one quick fix to the issues people are having. It will be an ongoing process to make Boards.ie the type of place the huge majority of posters who are already here want to remain in and continue contributing to. But - it's the internet. There will always be the cranks and the loons! But I think what this thread has shown is the majority of posters here are looking for the same thing. A community where we can discuss, debate, argue, advise, have a laugh at the trivial stuff and support posters with difficult stuff. I honestly do believe the majority of posters want that, and indeed already do that! So we just need to deal with the minority.

Changes will be made. The posters are the community (moderators included). We're the ones who set the tone of the community. I think overall it's a great site, with a few problem areas. The problem areas will be looked at to see how they can be managed better.

Feedback will be provided 👍🏻😊

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002658#Comment_122002658

If they're entertaining or at least every second one, what's the problem??

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004587#Comment_122004587

I suppose they could vaguely be called entertaining if that is the type of threads some want. If so have a dedicated section for them instead of being on every forum and being closed because they aren't relevant to that forum.

Big Bag of Chips

If a thread isn't relevant in a particular forum it should, where possible, be moved to a more appropriate forum. Personally I don't like to see loads of locked threads in a forum. It makes the forum look very uninviting. Some threads will need to be locked of course. But (personally) I think it's something that should be used sparingly.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004817#Comment_122004817

Any chance of a Pondering forum for a certain type of poster to post away!

Calahonda52

Human nature being what it is, I think a month of rigorous deletion of stuff would show the carckheads who post such stuff that it it won't stay up, leaving to in place is indulging them.

As a matter of interest, what are the criteria that prevent mass deletion?

folk have no right to be indulged, any sense of entitlement must be killed off at source, since it is just an imagined reality.

over on AAM, BB replaces the delete button on his computer every few months!

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004667#Comment_122004667

Isn't that exactly what After Hours is for?

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004919#Comment_122004919

If only they would post there though.

Leg End Reject

I've seen the weather forum mentioned a few times and it's a great forum.

I have no technical knowledge, but always read it ahead of big weather events, the knowledgeable posters are very welcoming to the clueless posters like me. The snow threads are epic and always nudge me to stock up just in case, it was a godsend during the last big one.

Irish Aris

I still enjoy the site. I mostly avoid subjects that can get heated (namely politics and religion) so I don't frequent to CA, AH or politics - the few times I decided to take part it was short lived as it is very difficult to distinguish who posts in good faith and who's trolling.

I really like that there are many users that genuinely try to help if you have a question.

The gigs & events threads are very useful for me to keep up with what's going on and I have tried to contribute a bit more recently.

The weather Forum was mentioned a few times - kudos to the posters there that provide good insights, especially during weather events.

The current situation in the soccer forum also suits me. Easier to have a discussion especially in the megathreads. Still a bit of tribalism but nothing major.

I was also a big fan and frequent contributor in the forum games. Really got me through the pandemic. Between things back to normal and the vanilla interruption we lost momentum , it's a shame that we haven't been able to bring "traffic" back up.

Don't have anything negative to observe - I don't post as much anymore, but still check daily on what's going on.

Thank you for all the effort in running the site @Big Bag of Chips and everyone else!! 🙂

batistuta9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004059#Comment_122004059

The last feedback thread in soccer had 14 replies, 5 of them from mods. The overwhelming feedback is that it's dead. Pretty much like the rest of boards a small hardcore of regular posters keeping it going

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006021#Comment_122006021

Are they good quality posts or poor quality though?
this thread for example has 38 pages for example but every post is not worth reading.

batistuta9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006039#Comment_122006039

Both. In forums like that people would argue over which side of bread to butter so there's still a bit of that & there's a lot of nothing posts too like commenting during a game. Neither good or bad just a comment. I don't really post there anymore just have an odd read at times

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006039#Comment_122006039

Am surprised at that comment because I think the feedback has been very good generally and appropriate bar one or two .

If it's feedback all posts deserve to be read surely ?

Not calling you Shirley !

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006416#Comment_122006416

Look, I think you’re misreading my post. I am simply saying that quantity doesn’t = quality.

1000’s of posts a day means F all if there’s a ton of rubbish posted. That is specifically referring to opening up soccer only because there’s fewer posters than if it were public access.

Arghus

The super threads are going fine in soccer, which is good, but it is a pity that the more random football related threads seem to have largely died off. Figure a lot of it has to do with the slightly trickier means to access the forum and the fact that you usually have to click on "all discussions" to show beyond the first few threads, so they just kind of stay there and the rest quickly disappear.

Can someone remind me again why forum games couldn't be ran on the new platform. That was a great forum: the walruses were fantastic and the once off competitions to decide the best of something were fantastic - I remember the epic competition to decide the best Beatles tune three (I think) years ago - really showed what made boards great: a thread with a diversity of opinions about a particular subject, progressing in a linear fashion etc, etc. It was a shame that all died on its arse with the changeover.

Irish Aris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006528#Comment_122006528

I think forum games can still be run but we can't organise enough numbers to make the games meaningful. We did an x factor a few weeks ago. I'm I'm between jobs now so I will try to organise a walrus. 🙂

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006528#Comment_122006528

Games hosts use excel to tot up scores and they don't format correctly in Vanilla. For werewolf games you need to be able to isolate one player's posts and read them, that's tricky with Vanilla whereas in Vbulletin you could just click on the number of posts from the home page and select a player there, you could also select a specific forum from their profile page.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006528#Comment_122006528

Yeah, I can't remember why it stopped, was definitely the best thing on boards

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006434#Comment_122006434

Well I think you are being a bit offhand there about the posts on this thread which is what you said . I didn't misread you saying " this thread " .

People are taking time to say how they feel about the site . And the vast majority are putting themselves out there to do it .

We will have to try harder it seems ! ;)

I get your point about loads of rubbish being posted as opposed to quality but if that is the yardstick you, for example, are using , I would be very concerned as to what and who would be accepted to post in a closed group.

There is not a whole load of rubbish being posted here , at least I don't think so .

But I guess I am not talking about soccer :)

Furze99

Here are two examples that I've noticed today that really reflect some of the ills of Boards.

First up we have a thread in the Politics forum on the upcoming Unified Patent Court referendum. As a citizen that will be voting on this, I've raised a few pertinent questions - perfectly reasonable and sane questions such as why we are having this referendum from a political pov in that they are inherently risky for the gov of the day and in association with this, has there been lobbying for this vote to take place and who might benefit the most. In other words the sort of questions and thoughts that are perfectly suited to a Boards Politics forum. I look up the Dáil debate and advice from likes of Chartered Accountants etc. No one can answer these and the general thinking is just vote yes as it's good - mom & apple pie etc.

Then we get this below: WTF?? You'd swear I was a member of some fifth column, not just a voter/ poster with an interest!! What else is supposed to be discussed on this thread? Baffling.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006078#Comment_122006078

Secondly, apparently the activist Gemma O'Doherty is arrested this morning. In among the largely derogatory comments, we get these two choice observations from a CMod:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004449#Comment_122004449

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004757#Comment_122004757

Dark Horse who is a CMod tells us "She's a hateful menace and she deserves everything she gets." & "She's a vile human being. It really is that simple."

If this is the sort of written abuse that moderators can dish out on a thread, why shouldn't ordinary regular posters be as forthright? And what would any new user make of this, what sort of an example is this?

These two examples just plucked from today make a nonsense of the new vision of thoughtful moderation and the calls for all users to be moderate in their choice of words.

I won't be making any friends for sure posting these examples but there's a fierce amount of hypocrisy at times here.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006039#Comment_122006039

this thread for example has 38 pages for example but every post is not worth reading.

This is what you said, you have dismissed some posts here, nothing to do with soccer.

It doesn't surprise me that you're the mod/cmod/admin to do that though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006934#Comment_122006934

Yeah so every single post here is feedback is it?
all 38 pages are absolutely crucial and important feedback correct?
there’s absolutely no griping, arguing or anything else that wouldn’t be considered feedback whether site wide or forum specific?

My recollection is there’s plenty of complaining about specific mods and forums of which the admin needed to step in and put a stop to it.

So yeah all 38 pages are not feedback and not all the feedback is even possible to implement anyway so I’m sorry but can you please not misrepresent my post and accuse me of disregarding feedback thanks.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006889#Comment_122006889

No hypocrisy at all similar to you Burke thread carry on, if you go looking to be offended on the behalf a laughing stocks thats on you, not the moderation team.

You seem to be desperatly dancing on the borderline of suicude by mod for yonks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006680#Comment_122006680

I’ve been following this thread since it opened and I can tell you now there’s plenty of posts that are just griping rather than providing actual feedback.

Honestly why I’m even entertaining this is beyond me it’s absolutely crazy. I’m trying to illustrate a point that quantity doesn’t equal quality. Every thread with 1000’s of posts doesn’t mean top quality content. A post count is not a metric of success of a forum either or indeed a thread.

Take it another way if you want I can’t help you there, but if you think I’m disregarding the feedback provided I am certainly not. I have in fact adjusted my own approach based on the feedback here.

Including recently applying a time limited threadban as opposed to “open ended” and being mindful in my attempts to discuss warnings etc with posters who wish to dispute them.

Overall I am keeping in mind the concerns and criticisms raised here and I take great exception to any notion I am waving off the feedback as anything but important.

But you are surely not telling me that every single one of the posts here is feedback. Even now our back and forth is not feedback actually. It’s disproportionately outraged response to my attempt to draw parallels between quality over quantity and how a forum being closed to the public and having a lower post count as a result doesn’t mean it’s “dying” or indeed that a splurge of extra posters having immediate and unrestricted access would improve the forum. As is the core point being argued re soccer that leaving it closed means it’s going to die.

If I came across as if I am hand waving the absolutely vital feedback provided by our mods and users then I sincerely apologise. It was not my intention at all.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006889#Comment_122006889

can you provide an example of any regular poster being infracted for critiquing Gemma as per the example above?

Otherwise it doesn’t really make any sense what your complaint is? They were not speaking to or about a poster on boards calling them these names.

Gemma IS a hateful lunatic! She thinks Hitler is great and the Jews made up the holocaust I mean cmon man.

callaway92

Are you allowed say things like that about someone on here? (ie saying Gemma O’ Doherty is a ‘hateful lunatic’)

Just curious is all

I just feel like if something like that was said about a sportsperson or soemtbing the treatment would be different (negative treatment)

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004059#Comment_122004059

Yeah, if you want to tell yourself the soccer forum is busy then more power to you, but those of us around for a few years know that it is a ghost town compared to how it used to be. Most active sports forum on boards is like me saying I'm the fastest in my family and thinking that that proves I'm fast.

Like has already been pointed out, that feedback thread got only 14 replies. You have a Manchester United thread that gets single digit daily posts at times. Do you know how many posts were in that thread on 24th March? The answer is 4. On the 25th March? None. Zero posts in a Manchester United thread, you want to call that active? That club used to get people posting in the dead of summer, now its dead in the middle of season, who are we kidding here?

So be it. Personally I think the mods would be perfectly happy for it to remain quiet and easy to manage.

Last thing I'll say because why bother, but look at that feedback thread again. Here is a quote from it.

Making Soccer more visible in particular when using the search function is something we will discuss with Admins.

Thats nine months ago, I wonder how that discussion went.

There are 30 posts in the 2022 soccer feedback thread and they are almost a carbon copy of the discussion here now. People like that the trolls are gone but the forum is too hard to find and there are concerns about the traffic. Mods have concerns about opening it up but will take feedback on board and update on any changes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058253225/soccer-forum-feedback-2022

Its basically been a few years now, seems clear there is no intention of changing the status quo.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007109#Comment_122007109

It really depends on if that person is a lunatic?

Like it'd be hard to say it about someone here as anyone praising Hitler or denying the holocaust likely aint gunna be around long enough to get called out.

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007036#Comment_122007036

Some of the comments by the mods are unbelievable - after that level of hatred how can they have any credibility with the average boardsie?

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007141#Comment_122007141

I get you. Just feels wrong that mods seem to be happy out making those kinds comments. In the end of the day it’s a family member of someone potentially on here etc.

Vote4Squirrels

Back to negativity sorry - and we all know who we’re taking about here - posters who openly troll by taking the absolute p*** out of genuinely held beliefs and carefully crafted opinions.

Why are they allowed to operate with impunity???

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007154#Comment_122007154

Haha, good one. Wait, you’re not serious, are you?

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007154#Comment_122007154

There’s a “motoring and transport” moderator posting in the “attack oh motorists” thread and is clearly anti-car.

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007187#Comment_122007187

Crazy shhhhheeeitttt if true

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007154#Comment_122007154

What hatred? Those banging the edgy perma-victim drum have zero credibility.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007160#Comment_122007160

I cant imagine any family member of Gemma's disagreeing with the sentiment tbh.

Sometimes people are actually just a big auld bag of cùnt. Granted its harsh but in some cases its just an actual fact and said bag has brought it completely upon themselves so sympathy will be in incredibly minute supply.

callaway92

Fair

Have just seen warnings that myself and others have gotten and neither of us would’ve thought the other warranted a warning (saying stuff like ‘you’ve lost the plot’), but it’s ok to call other people lunatics etc then!

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007187#Comment_122007187

If it's the mod I think you mean they don't moderate on motoring, they moderate on aviation and similar. A list of who mods what here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674422#Comment_118674422

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007242#Comment_122007242

There is a different standard if you are addressing another poster versus commenting on a public figure.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003156#Comment_122003156

I'm not suggesting that everything CA would become unavailable unless you requested access.

Rather, I am suggesting there is a space created to allow a particular type of conversation to happen without it impacting the rest of the site.

Take for example the topic of the conflict in Gaza. That is a discussion that evokes very strong feelings, and I feel that sometimes with threads like that on here, those feelings are unnecessarily curtailed because of the moderation that exists. And the moderators would say that the moderation that exists is absolutely necessary (which I dispute) to keep the site pleasant for most users.

A consequence of this is a lot of displeasure about the moderation around these threads (this thread = exhibit A). So its to help deal with that I am proposing a members only type corner of Boards. I'm not suggesting personal abuse that crosses a line or genuinely inappropriate stuff, but that line is not as restricting as it currently is.

Take for the example that was given on here yesterday of someone who feels that Moderation on a CA thread was excessive. They say they were accused of being racist, but that they weren't. I disagree with their view, strongly, but I'd be ok with letting them say what they said and being called out on it on thread.

I was warned and then banned for saying something was an idiotic statement with the mod justifying this saying 'It was the same as calling the poster an idiot'. I'm in my mid 40's discussing a highly contentious public current affairs topic and being treated like a kid. That interaction was one of the straws that broke the camels back for me in walking away from the site.

So this is a proposal to create an environment where mods don't feel the need to moderate as they are doing so because of the fear of the impact that that is having on areas of the site with heavy traffic.

Say this area of CA was set up, threads could exist within it that exist in the open area of CA (or AH or wherever) as well as the members only area. In the same way as threads that exist in CA and Politics. But the level of contribution is expected to be different in the two areas, and the moderation is also.

I feel this could allow more 'real world' (non problematic) debates on these topics, and would result in less acrimony towards the Mods who attract such acrimony at the moment with their particular style/influence in these spaces.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007242#Comment_122007242

Its not acceptable to call another forum member having lost the plot. It falls under the basic civility rules.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007258#Comment_122007258

Doesn’t seem right. Was healthy discussion with me and another poster and warnings just completely sucked the life out of things then. I think he even got a thread ban for harmless stuff.