Clean Air/Congestion Charging set to be introduced by 2030

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956080#Comment_121956080

don't pay enough in my opinion

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956084#Comment_121956084

I don't know the current figure, but it has amounted to 10% of total government revenues in the not so distant past. Yeah, I'm aware of your and the boards cyclist caliphate's attitude to motoring and extra urban living. It's hard to miss.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956158#Comment_121956158

these wont affect you anyway don't you live in the middle of nowhere?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956071#Comment_121956071

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956080#Comment_121956080

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956158#Comment_121956158

When are drivers going to pay for all that free storage space they get in the suburbs?

When are drivers going to pay for the large percentage of the Garda and Courts services that are taken up with deterring them from killing themselves and others?

When are drivers going to pay for the consequential healthcare costs of the pollution coming out of their vehicles, toxic fumes, brake particles, tyre particles, noise?

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956078#Comment_121956078

I don't "need" to do anything.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956186#Comment_121956186

What "free storage space" are you waffling on about?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956408#Comment_121956408

not yet, but when the congestion charges kick in, if they ever do, you'll need to pay them in order to visit our fair city's centre in a car

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956418#Comment_121956418

Yeah we'll see about that in time. Even if that comes in (it won't) there will be ways around it.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956429#Comment_121956429

not really, if you go into the wrong area by accident in london you'll get charged, cameras pick everything up so there's no way around it

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956435#Comment_121956435

If you say so. I'll do my own thing thanks

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956438#Comment_121956438

...but you see it is that attitude that has led to too many cars being in the city centres which is leading our councils to adopt a different approach to traffic.

Historically, the private car was given dominance. But as it is the least efficient mode of transport in a city centre, it is being placed at the bottom shelf on the "who do we allocate road space to" discussion.

Modern cities are now prioritising public transport along with active travel. You'll still be able to tell people that you're going to do your own thing when it comes tondriving into a city centre but don't expect it to be a quick journey and don't expect it to be free. Similarly, you will find each time you come into the city that there's less and less on-street parking so you can presume that those remaining spaces will cost more to occupy. But at least you'll be doing your own thing so enjoy your stubbornness!

Yakov P. Golyadkin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956438#Comment_121956438

Wow, we got a real renegade on our hands. So free.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956412#Comment_121956412

This is it

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956429#Comment_121956429

Yes, there will be ways around it, such as;

1. Take the bus
2. Take the train
3. Take the Luas
4. Take your bike.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956491#Comment_121956491

Or maybe, "im sorry i can't cycle iv'e two kids to drop to creche and then a 50 min drive to work because the public service transport infrastructure is absolutely s hit and it would take me 3 hrs or more to get to the office"

Hint, not everyone lives inside the M50.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956500#Comment_121956500

The Census data shows clearly that a large percentage of car journeys are short, distances of less than 4km, which can be easily walked or cycled.

There's lots of ways to take two kids to the crèche.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2023/jun/19/ditching-the-car-for-a-cargo-bike-on-the-school-run

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956505#Comment_121956505

What if it's raining heavily? And don't bother replying, thanks.

I think the best thing is if people decide for themselves what works for them. My daughter has problems with flat feet and her school backpack weighs 14 Kg and the school is 3 km away and there is a steep gradient. It's probably best that I decide what's best for my circumstances than someone else stick their know-it-all beak in and dictate based on their limited grasp of their own reality, let alone mine.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956557#Comment_121956557

Wait till you hear about raincoats.

Wait till you hear about ebikes.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956039#Comment_121956039

Your post sprang to mind when I saw this tweet.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956581#Comment_121956581

I cycled to and from school almost every single day for 11 years, apart from the 2 months I spent catching buses and trains. I'm fairly well versed in getting soaked on a bicycle and the realities of wet weather gear. The term 'drowned rat' fit me like a glove many a time. If you do manage to keep some of the rain on the outside, you will generate just as much via perspiration on the inside as you avoided.

In summer, riding home from school when it was 37-44°C was fun. I didn't sweat one little bit after I hit puberty, no siree, not me. I nearly forgot, there was also that time I worked for the post office riding a bicycle and delivering telegrams. Ignorant of bicycles and weather, that's me all right.

Oh, yes, and there's a dirty great e-bike parked 4m away from my right shoulder, but you knew that, right, because you know everything.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121954626#Comment_121954626

It's perfectly valid for posters here to recall what actually happened previously. And to not permit the slippery rewriting of history. That's not nonsense - it's a reminder that the public or at least some us have longer memories than a goldfish. And that we take this into account when next casting our votes.

Which is as it should be, I'm sure you agree??

FYI I'm happy to give credit where credit is due and FYI I have never 'run to a mod' unlike some others on this thread. I won't even report this one on the basis that you're attacking the poster rather than the post, nope not my style baby.

That doesn't mean we have to swallow everything blindly and be good unquestioning little citizens..

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956641#Comment_121956641

Raingear has come on a bit since your day.

And if you're such an expert on ebikes, why did you present the idea of an uphill commute as a huge challenge?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956557#Comment_121956557

didn't you decide to live in the middle of nowhere countryside? people like you will always be reliant on cars, and these measures would not affect people like you unless you decided to drive into a city centre, but you could always get there by other means.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956675#Comment_121956675

I'm not dead yet so it's still as much my day as anyone eleses.

Sorry, never heard of goretex, though that's what's on the label of several gaments I own and my cheap eVent jacket with it's 10 times the water vapour permeability of goretex is a figment of my imagination. They do not stop you sweating and it doesn't all just magically vanish through the fabric, leaving you dry and smelling of roses.

Your capity for generating BS is seriously impressive.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956726#Comment_121956726

Like I said, things have improved since your day. Try something like this

https://www.galibier.cc/product/grandtour-jacket/

Similar price to Goretex jacket

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956616#Comment_121956616

Sandy is yet another stupid greenie who doesn't understand capacity factor. I hope there are teenagers with more nouse than her or we are screwed.

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/chinas-coal-country-full-steam-ahead-with-new-power-plants-despite-climate-2023-11-30/

China understands capacity factor, that's why they are going all in on coal and nuclear.

_Kaiser_

The reality is that cycling/public transport will suit some people for any number of reasons - location, length of commute, cost, and indeed the fact that it's become a fashionable crusade to advocate for some - and we DO love a crusade in this country, especially if it allows us to look down our nose at others!

However, the reality also is that for many, cycling or public transport isn't a suitable or attractive option and for many of the same reasons. For those people a car is essential.

The difference is that driving is no longer trendy (especially if you drive a big dirty polluting diesel!) and as with so many of these trendy crusades, emotion and grandstanding is seen as just as important as the practicalities (or lack thereof) involved.

But in the real world of course, a balance needs to be found between both "sides". At the moment the problems are being exacerbated by the crusaders in Government through the removal of driving space without providing for suitable alternatives. The complaints of congestion, noise and emissions are partly self-inflicted as a result of this.

Dublin Bus and Go Ahead are struggling to find drivers, rail services only serve certain areas, aren't particularly cheap, and are frequently unreliable as well, and the truth is that many people simply don't WANT to peddle around everywhere or deal with the hassle of needing to change clothes when they get to work, or deal with the wind and weather - especially if they still need to have a car for their other trips.

Personal choice and options are things that are very important in a modern, developed country. It's also a bit much to be demonising motorists when still fleecing them in tax, insurance, VRT and all the other costs that come with running a car, and then using that tax take to beat them into submission on top of it.

What this "strategy", once again, is a brain fart from a bunch of zealots and ideologues who are trying to force as much of their agenda through while they still have a chance to be in Government. I also don't CARE what they do in Europe - we are more different than alike with our European "friends" on most issues, and our needs are similarly different. We live in a country that has encouraged home ownership and houses in particular as a measure of success and ambition for decades. At the same time we don't want to build up in the form of modern apartments or high rise, we don't value apartments at all really and we certainly don't value renting!

The inevitable result then is that people relocate further and further out, but in many cases have to still get back to their job, college or family. The only way to do this in any practical sense in most cases is by car but now we expect motorists to just accept and be punished for taking the only reasonable option open to them.

Until our entire attitude to housing, ownership, construction, employment and infrastructure changes then there will be no real alternative to the car. There's a lot more involved in doing this than throwing up some cycle lanes and charging people even more for driving!

But as with most things in this country however, it's easier to be seen to be doing something than actually doing something (properly) and so these half-assed, half-considered "plans" will continue to come out and ultimately make things worse.. It's the Irish way!

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956815#Comment_121956815

So,to summarise: things are crap and let's keep it that way until they're not crap!

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956834#Comment_121956834

Ah I do love trite and wannabe "funny" responses like this.

If you can't respond properly then it's generally better to say nothing at all.

Try reading it again maybe. I actually have covered what needs to be done before measures like this are either appropriate or practical.

Instead of complaining about motorists, maybe start lobbying your TDs to address those other issues first.

Otherwise this is just another "cart before the horse" half-assed plan that'll fail before it starts - why? Because it doesn't address the problems, merely tinkers with the symptoms.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956815#Comment_121956815

Excellent points.

I'd like to add that we also have suffered from endemic planning corruption in Dublin and other cities that add to the list of reasons our cities are so hard to service from a public transport point of view. But we don't like talking about that.

We are also a very subservient people, I would say AndreJRenko would a typical example of that, whatever the ideologues are blasting from the altar is good for him and others like him. These people would have no problem controlling an individuals access to hot showers, or toilet roll if some billionaire in a private jet and a tailored suit tells them to "follow the science". These people have convinced themselves they are saving the planet….and can't seem to understand why there have never been so many billionaires with private jets and tailored suits.

I'm on bike lanes every day, they are empty, and I mean empty…there are no more people cycling now than there were before they were installed…no one is listening to that headbanger O'Riordan (Labour) and Eamonn Ryan, the man who thinks gay people and women are more adversely affected by Climate Change, no matter how hysterically they scream from their pulpits!!