Clean Air/Congestion Charging set to be introduced by 2030

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959642#Comment_121959642

If someone suggested 5 years ago that our Government would declare an emergency and restrict all citizens to a 2km radius of their home, shut all businesses and close schools who would have believed them?

I'd advise you to take some time to listen to the many climate experts who don't believe we are in a climate emergency….because that is what any grown adult should do, consider more than one view!!

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959005#Comment_121959005

Basing your plans for cycling development on the numbers cycling is like basing your plans for building new bridges on the numbers swimming across the river.

It's not about the numbers cycling. It's about the numbers that will be cycling.

It's not an either/or choice on cycling developments vs WFH developments.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959670#Comment_121959670

On that logic, why didn't we build cycling infrastructure when it was at its heigh day back in the 60s?

Based on our demographics, I'd expect significantly more folk won't be cycling in the future. We're getting older and living further and further from the city and town centres. I don't see many 75+ year olds pottering about on 2 wheels. Bikes are fine for short distances but it won't be replacing the car in the longer term. That battle was already lost in the 70s where private vehicles displaced bikes.

Gusser09

Whats the point of a congestion charge when it doesnt matter what we do in ireland? We are a tiny player and with other bigger countries india, china, pakistan etc increasing their polution we arent making any difference.

Time to stop this green nonsense.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959787#Comment_121959787

Open to correction but Irelands average distance to work is 17km and it's 19km in Holland.

I assume keeping people fitter older is something we should be aiming towards.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959787#Comment_121959787

We had about 1/4 of the numbers of cars around in the 60s, so things were a bit different then.

Try hanging around Dun Laoghaire in the brighter evenings, and you'll see lots of folks in their 60s and 70s on bikes, often on eBikes. eBikes have revolutionised the market, giving a bit of extra oomph on tap for those who need it, particularly the older people that you mentioned or those travelling longer distances that you mentioned.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959669#Comment_121959669

Why are you bringing up the response to a global infectious pandemic in a discussion on climate change? You're not on the Gript facebook page now.

I definitely consider more than one view. Here's another view;

https://twitter.com/i/status/1684587047313440768

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959853#Comment_121959853

I bring it up because it is what our Government did once it declared an emergency. You believe we are in a Climate Emergency…but you know that, you are not that slow witted, so please stop the baiting, and at least argue in good faith.

You actually have never listened to a climate expert who doesn't believe we are in a Climate Emergency. have you?

The UN have about as much credibility as Fifa, or the Vatican, it's a rotten international NGO with no oversight who are pushing a lot of extremist views on ordinary people…global boiling!! That man is an idiot.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958732#Comment_121958732

based on what? Do you have anything to back that up?

How is making a city centre more pedestrian friendly going to harm business? Which business will be harmed?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959190#Comment_121959190

You are aware the car manufacturers lied and that is why we have the situation with diesel?

If they didn’t lie would we have the same issue? No

So I think your anger is misplaced in this situation

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959820#Comment_121959820

Congestion charges can also be a means to reduce traffic. Not just pollution.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959830#Comment_121959830

Open to correction but the Netherlands is a flat country with excellent public transport links, properly planned towns and cities post WW2 and relatively mild weather. Even they aren't planning on bringing in congestion charges for all and sundry but are instead only focusing on the most polluting (diesel) traffic.

Also, pensioners aren't cycling to work.

Scipri0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958792#Comment_121958792

That's the thing as well. I'm pro helping the environment and want to limit and put a stop to harmful ways, but these people(Green Party) are as you mentioned detached from reality. Less well off households don't have thousands to upgrade their housing with energy savings measures or afford to buy a new car that puts out less emissions. Cycles lanes that only go for a few meters and totally disappear, Still dangerous for cyclists.

They're against nuclear power, which i think is a joke. Ireland is a small country and nuclear power would sort our energy needs. All i see coming from the Greens are taxes after taxes hurting the less well off. It's stuff like that. Fine Gael on bikes sounds about right!

Scipri0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958793#Comment_121958793

You mean that Carbon Credit nonsense?


A type of carbon credit used by companies including Eon, Shell, easyJet and British Airways in the past year to justify continuing to pollute through their own operations is largely worthless, a new study finds. https://www.ft.com/content/6a9d7ef7-2e30-4082-8ae0-3a722008ddab

https://www.ft.com/content/6a9d7ef7-2e30-4082-8ae0-3a722008ddab

Scipri0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959895#Comment_121959895

Back, what up? That taxes introduced hurt the less well off more? I've said it many times, If a congestion charge is say €50, for a person on minimum wage that's a lot but say someone on €150k, It's nothing it clears the road for them. Public transport and infrastructure needs to be sorted first. Throwing tax after tax is not going to save the planet. It'll only turn people against climate policies, and it'll all because of people like Eamon Ryan.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960023#Comment_121960023

Where did you get the idea that the Green Party are against nuclear power?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960046#Comment_121960046

Nope, try again.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960077#Comment_121960077

So what you want is cheaper motoring and and increased car use for more people. How will that help?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959891#Comment_121959891

It's a very different kind of emergency though. Do you actually understand the difference between;

1. a global infectious pandemic, and
2. a climate emergency

There's really no connection between them, despite the best efforts of Gript and Fox News and GBNews to rile you up into believing some kind of connection.

No 'oversight' over the UN? Who do you want to provide the oversight - the League of Nations? 🤣🤣🤣

Let's keep the expert views coming so, how about Peter Kalmus?

https://twitter.com/ClimateHuman

who shares stuff like this:

https://twitter.com/BMcNoldy/status/1773694587657150968?s=20

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960206#Comment_121960206

All you've been demonstrating is that you are a climate alarmist….you and your kind are responsible for the surge in climate anxiety in kids.

Why did you not answer my question, have you ever listened to a climate expert who doesn't believe we are in a climate crisis?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960231#Comment_121960231

Yes, I've heard plenty of BS from that tiny group of supposed 'experts' who don't believe we're in a climate crisis.

Just to clarify, is your position that we're all climate alarmists - Attenborough, Gutterez, Kalmus, former defence forces Chief of Staff Mark Mellett;

https://twitter.com/mark_mellett/status/1773648194305491025?s=20

Anaki r2d2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960246#Comment_121960246

Good man, we will tax ourselves out of this climate crisis.

Green party chat, "we will, we will, tax you!"

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960246#Comment_121960246

I think by definition if you believe we are in an end of world as we know it climate crisis, you are an alarmist.

I will believe it when the entities that push this alarmism behave in a consistent manner that reflects their belief, I don't believe men with private jets can be taken seriously and neither can politicians or media personalities who don't condone the use of private jets in a climate crisis…I can't take a Government seriously, that would rather restrict the ability of farmers to provide food for citizens but allow massive energy-sapping data centers that ordinary people don't need, I can't take any government seriously who want us to reduce our carbon footprint and simultaneously demands we grow our population with loose migration policies…

Most of all, the "quality" of the political leaders the Climate Alarmist movements produce tend to be talentless airheads like Catherine Martin, a music teacher, Eamonn Ryan, a bike rental shop owner who believes gay people and women are more adversly affected by climate change, is more evidence of how paper thin all these beliefs are!!

I feel genuinely sorry for the children who have been pumped with anxiety by adults who should have known better!!

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960273#Comment_121960273

No, we won't tax ourselves out of this climate crisis, but it is one significant component, both in bringing in revenue for remedial actions and in driving behavioural change.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121957224#Comment_121957224

That raises more questions than answers IMHO. Regarding the two points, about parts and mechanics, that's really bizarre, because I don't know of any circumstance (save for perhaps comprehensive insurance) where the insurer takes any responsibility for repair to the insured car. If you're in a crash with an older car and it's the other drivers fault, setting it right is the responsibility of the other drivers' insurance - and they'll usually write off your car and offer you the Net Book Value.

And I don't know why Third Party Only insurance is no longer a thing, most insurers these days don't offer anything less than TPFT, or Third Party Fire and Theft. If your car is over 15 years old you are probably only worried about your public liability.

None of these things were problems around a decade ago and other countries don't seem to have such enormous problems with disadvantaged people keeping their "bangers" on the road. Maybe I'm missing something?

As to that clown from the UN claiming we're in a "global boiling" scenario, quick, run and tell the governments in Beijing and New Delhi. Because it's getting to the point where even countries like the US are becoming irrelevant given how much CO2 is produced by India and China.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960281#Comment_121960281

You seem to be backing away now from your enthusiastic denials. Are you not able to give a clear statement as to whether all the people you've heard from are climate alarmists?

How about Prof Barry McMullin of DCU, is he a climate alarmist too?

https://twitter.com/autofac/status/1773767226270552141?s=20

It IS possible to criticise government policy about data centres and private jets without actually falling down the Gript rabbit hole.

What's so difficult to understand about the idea that those who have least resources in developing countries, including women and LGBT people, are worst positioned to insulate themselves from the effects of climate change?

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960310#Comment_121960310

You are embarrassing yourself at this point. I'm not backing away from anything.

What are you on about "Gript Rabbit holes", cop yourself on…you believe we are in a crisis, have you asked yourself are data centres more important to ordinary people than affordable food? Why aren't Government building flood defense systems, or nuclear power plants? In fact, apart from raising taxes and controlling human behaviour, what exactly are the Irish Government doing to combat the dire effects they keep predicting?

Eamon Ryan was addressing Irish gay people and Irish women…he is an idiot. It is that simple. Denying affordable fuel to people in developing nations will affect every man, woman and child regardless of their sexuality, for some creepy reason, your type are obsessed over!

Let me spell it out, if you believe we are in a climate crisis, then you are a climate alarmist!! I know there are an army of climate alarmists out there, I know you probably follow them all on twitter, we all know about these people….

Anaki r2d2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960285#Comment_121960285

You Seem well able to relentlessly post to links for here there and everywhere.

But how about a really simple question, what is your solution for those of us that don't live in D4, that need to drive into the city because there is no viable public transport?

You ( and soon to be unemployed Eamon) seem to just want to penalise and tax. Should I cycle 60km each way every day on my ebike wearing the latest galibrier wet gear?

This your solution? Along with taxes obviously

https://www.galibier.cc/product/mistral-5-foul-weather-cycling-jacket/

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959903#Comment_121959903

The facts suggest otherwise. It's been nine years since diesel gate and yet the policies which favoure diesel remain to this day, so your claim that the manufacturers are to blame for the misguided policy are false.

Both the March and April raises will mean an extra 4 cents per litre on
petrol prices. Diesel will rise by 3 cents a litre, while marked gas oil
increases by 1.7 cents a litre.

https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/03/29/ireland-reveals-fuel-and-broadband-price-increases-from-april

If they had ever actually cared about pollution levels and the adverse health effects claimed for nox and particulates they would have reversed the skewed excise levies and other polices that favour diesel, years ago.

Anaki r2d2

Wasnt it the great green tax man Ryan, than imposed the rule that commercial vehicles could not be used for personal trips cira 2008/9.

His policy stopped you dropping your kids off to school on the way to work. Hence you needed to do two trips and buy a second vehicle. Carbon footprint reduction in action here folks.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960310#Comment_121960310

If it's all so urgent, explain how the earth was significantly hotter in the past, yet we still exist today? It also had significantly higher CO2 levels in the past but it didn't stop the earth from spinning either. We live in Ireland, there's little to no obvious evidence of the world burning if you weren't been told about it constantly by the media and "experts".

I'm all for doing our bit, but that's just it. It's a bit. It's not our job to overcompensate for China or India or wherever. Nor is it right that we'll import wood or beef or whatever from ex rainforest so smug Ministers can pat themselves on the back for creative carbon accounting. You seem to have some notion that traffic is the devil because it's powered by hydrocarbons and some weird preoccupation that it's somehow subsidised by the government. Yet you'd no problem with the likes of Grants for EVs or Bike to work schemes subsidising your lifestyle? If it all suddenly switched to electric vehicles and Eirgrid could somehow wave a magic wand and be able to accommodate 100% renewables, would you still be concerned about the air quality and beg for Congestion charges? Or would you see it for what it is - another tax with little tangible benefits?