SEAI Fuel Cost Comparison posters at petrol stations

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912243#Comment_121912243

I don't see a link to their calculations on this particular issue, maybe I'm missing something

liamog

Following the link on the poster and the methodology link gives this

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912315#Comment_121912315

my ateca is currently doing 6.5L/100km 😣

my night rate tariff is 18 cents....looking at the table above my next car should be an EV if i don't want to pee money away.

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911969#Comment_121911969

What's the lie?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912230#Comment_121912230

People are definitely going to mention depreciation too

At the moment people are buying new EVs, not second hand ones due to FUD about batteries having to be replaced. 2 years ago I bought a 2018 Leaf 40 for €21k. Similar cars on donedeal range from 10k-20k but most are around 15k so 3k/year depreciation. My last ICE was 12k to buy and traded it for 1k 6 years later, so 2k/year. Yes, without doubt, EVs depreciate faster but not by as much as people think

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912034#Comment_121912034

Clearly you didn't bother reading the methodology in the T&Cs.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912334#Comment_121912334

If you charged at the fuel station where the sticker is, the price is not achievable. Therefore displaying cent per km figures for EV as a comparison dont work. It could be free, it could be 5c or 50c per km. If you charged an etron 55 at Applegreen (where these stickers must be displayed) and paid 70c per kwh and get 3km per kWh it's going to cost a heck of a lot more than the sticker says.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912290#Comment_121912290

Pdf on this link

https://www.seai.ie/publications/Fuel-Cost-Comparison-Methodology.pdf

Link below. The pdf also has links on it.

https://www.seai.ie/publications/Fuel-Cost-Comparison-Methodology.pdf

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912461#Comment_121912461

The poster doesn't say that price is achievable at that filling station. So there is no lie. Your assumptions and the rest of your post is irrelevant.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912461#Comment_121912461

If you filled up at the fuel station the price for diesel and petrol will almost certainly be different too.

The point here is to demonstrate the stark difference in fuelling cost between vehicle types at the point of pain for motorists.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912506#Comment_121912506

The fact that it's not achievable is my issue.

What other business is forced to advertise the benefits of something they don't sell ?

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912506#Comment_121912506

It suggests the price is cheaper when in-fact it's multiple times more expensive where the poster is displayed. That's misleading to consumers.

kirving

Put this advert on TV, Radio, Posters, etc. and I'd support it all day long.

It is utterly misleading to place this price comparison at the location where electricity costs more than petrol for a 100km journey. Most customers lets be honest, have little to no idea about their fuel consumption, let alone l/100km to kWh/100km conversions when all they do it look at the €/week figure.

It's akin to forcing restaurants to advertise that Fanta costs €2, and Water costs €1*, but they only serve Evian which costs €3. Utter nonsense tbh.

*If you drink tap water at home 90% of the time.

Further, it gives no incentive for providers of fast chargers to educe their rates, as they're actively being masked by the smallprint.

unkel

€3.18 per 100km? With Pinergy on a smart plan, you would pay about €0.75 per 100km. Petrol and diesel are about 1000% more expensive. And you can buy a decent EV with tax and NCT for not much more than €1k now, so none of that silly "EVs are only for rich people" nonsense, thanks.

Stupid idea the above anyway. It is proving to be very hard to convince luddites that EVs are cheaper and cleaner, but this is not the way. A total waste of time and money for petrol station owners.

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912546#Comment_121912546

Nope, it doesn't.

And in fact, it specifically says on the poster that it's based on blended 90:10 charging.

It quite clearly does not state that the cost to charge at that station (if it even had an EV charger) would be that price.

Just as the price of petrol/diesel is not specifically at that station.

If you or anyone else reading the poster only half reads it and makes incorrect assumptions, then that's on you.

pah

Cloud cuckoo land sh1t - at those prices you're getting 5.3 ish l/100km diesel and 6l/100km for petrol. even in a brand new car you'd be dong well to achieve those figures. 100 km costs me about €24 in petrol at current prices 🤣

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912511#Comment_121912511

Yes but it is possible to achieve the petrol/diesel price. It is impossible to achieve the EV price

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912650#Comment_121912650

Its entirely possible to achieve that EV price.

shimadzu

I had an electric ID4 and changed to a Toyota hybrid at the start of the year. Looked at trading the ID4 in with Volkswagen who didn't want it, Toyota also didn't want it, they said they were troublesome and didn't have the necessary equipment to fix them if something goes wrong.

Had so many issues with the car, the software is half baked and the dealership struggled to fix mechanical issues.

Anybody looking at buying an EV based on fuel savings need to factor in the initial extra cost and the increased depreciation. While routine maintenance is cheaper than an ICE or Hybrid if anything goes wrong with them the cost of repairs is eyewatering. All the issues convinced me to sell up before the warrantee expired.

If the SEAI want detailed fuel pricing listed the garages should also clearly detail how much of the price per liter is heading to the state, what is it currently ~56% rising to about 65% in April? If there is a large shift towards EVs what are the odds that the government will add extra duties and levies to electricity charges to make up the shortfall?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912673#Comment_121912673

... not at the filling station where it is advertised though. Take the applegreen example. How do I achieve the 3.81 per 100km, at 68-75c/kWh?

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912707#Comment_121912707

Not sure how many more times this has to be pointed out:

The figure is, as literally there in black and white on the poster, based on a blended mix of public and home charging. Saying that the figure can't be achieved at the station where the poster is is entirely irrelevant.

The poster doesn't say that figure is if you charge your car at that station. The figure on the poster is entirely achievable under the conditions played out on the poster and methodology on the advertised link.

You might as well be crying about the fact that someone at a service station in Cavan can get cheaper diesel 5km up the road, so the figure for diesel isn't correct.

A lot of people in here incapable of basic reading comprehension.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912461#Comment_121912461

3km/kWh. 33kWh, or €22 to get you 100km. You are correct that is a big difference alright

Isn't there a method to create your own diesel from used frying oil and it works out about 30c/L? About a fifth of todays €1.70 prices....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912599#Comment_121912599

you can buy a decent EV with tax and NCT for not much more than €1k now

Your point is correct but I think you're missing a zero in there, should it be €10k?

GPoint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912637#Comment_121912637

That’s 13 l / 100 km consumption! Is this an old petrol engine Ford or an old Hyundai 7 seater ?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912745#Comment_121912745

It can't be achieved at any filling station.

That's not irrelevant it's a fact.

The filling station ⛽ is being forced to advertise the benefits of a product (IE. home charging) which it doesn't sell.

That's turning normal business practice on its head.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912745#Comment_121912745

It's a bad sign with a bad message. I can read it fine. But it's not what should be put in filling stations. The numbers work in favor of EVs, the tech is better than ICE, we don't need to fluff the numbers.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912745#Comment_121912745

There's nobody that doesn't already understand EV's who is going to know what that means in the small print. It's misleading to the average consumer.

What's even worse is the people who do know won't be topping up their car at the garage, they'll be reliant on the staff or the people who love the smell of burning Dinosaur bones in the morning, who'll inform them it's another waste of their tax and did you hear the about the girl on newstalk saying she won't even trade in an EV.

It's comparable to putting a Bill Gates bug burger advertisment up in the butchers shop.

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913023#Comment_121913023

It is irrelevant, as the poster doesn't state that it's achievable at that filling station. It literally states that it's a price based on 90% home charging, 10% public charging. If people are too stupid to properly read a clear poster, and jump to incorrect conclusions, then that's their problem.

What can be achieved t that specific filling station complete separate argument, that the poster doesn't make. Which of course it couldn't as it's a general advertising campaign, not one specifically tailored to each filling station.

So there is no lie. And the EV figure is entirely achievable.

If people want to concoct other scenarios where the figure isn't true, or the figure isn't achievable, then knock themselves out, but the conditions and methodology used to calculate that figure are perfectly sound.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913071#Comment_121913071

Most people who don't own EVs know you can charge them at home. They'd be considerably more ignorant of the public charging network and how it works and is priced.

pah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913022#Comment_121913022

a 2012 535i 😶 an EV is next on my list for sure

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913138#Comment_121913138

They also have a bad taste in their mouth when it comes to Electricity pices and don't trust the goverment. Was it yesteredays times had an article saying the green party are wrecking the place, they need high electricity prices to make the likes of solar look anyway feasable. The gig is up and the general public see what's going on. Eamon Ryan has even stated there won't be a return to cheap electricity, there definatley won't be if any of his hair brained schemes come to fruition. Let's store gas in a boat on the shannon, they're completley insane.