From:
Petrol stations with three or more fuel pumps have been told they must start displaying a sign showing the difference in their prices compared with the electric alternative within weeks.
*Blended rate of charging - 90% at home (night rate) and 10% public (fast charge)
Needless to say petrol stations without EV chargers are not happy.
Sorry it was the Independent, "Green Party’s wrecking ball hellbent on destroying economic prosperity" https://archive.ph/rPQne#selection-4199.14-4199.84
They aren't being forced to advertise goods they don't supply.
They are being forced to comply with a regulation on display of indicative fuel prices in accordance with a policy decision to increase consumer knowledge on the cost of running of alternative fuels.
How many people do you think are able to easily compare charging an EV at 68c/kWh vs a hydrogen car at €9/kg or a diesel at €1.60/l?
I think the implementation here has holes (the home vs public DC mix) but the goal of providing information to consumers in an easily ignorable format isn't bad.
There is absolutely nothing to stop them offering it to their customers (except their own limitations).
Anyhow, the article linked in the OP mentions that it is based on an EU directive and provides the details of including IIRC a link to it.
That's a completely separate argument again.
The filling station operates under multiple regulations, both domestic and EU, which this one is.
If you want to argue that businesses should be able to do whatever they like and not be subject to any rules or regulations, in some sort of ultra-neo liberal capitalist utopia, then feel free to start a thread somewhere else on that.
Literally the post above yours states that it's an EU directive.
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913378/#Comment_121913378
I doubt any filling station owner is going to exit the business because of this but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.
I didn't know it was due to an EU Directives but the same applies there. EU Directives are not immune from criticism.
Businesses should not be forced to advertise the benefits of goods or services they don't supply.
Where is HVO in this cklusterfuck re implementation , bully boy treatment by SEAI
The alternative poster should show how much tax in the the stuff; below is ex vat
Filling stations operate under regulations, if a business doesn't want to comply with the regulations regarding the operation of that business they should exit operations.
This is not an SEAI idea, this an EU directive that filling station operators across the EU need to comply with.
Do you have a link to that IT article that has nothing to do with what I said?
You are continuing to ignore the thrust of my argument.
They should not be forced on the filling stations.
If the SEAI want to extol the virtues of EVs that's their business.
The filling station's business is fuel be it petrol, diesel or electric charging.
All of the price values are supplied by the SEAI - the poster does not consider the prices on the forecourt
The obligation to display fuel price comparisons comes from a 2014 Directive and is seen as a consumer information for all alternative fuels as it can be difficult for a person to tell the difference between 60c/kWh vs €1.70/l vs €10/kg and how that translates to actual running costs. We were meant to be doing this December 7th 2020.
I think the use of a weighted average for the domestic/public DC is naive at best. It would be better for consumers to see an average home price, average dc price and a blended price, but that may be too much information to put on a simple poster.
some posters are saying its advertising which its not, its more of an informational campaign and i hope its one that gets promoted more widely e.g. large billboards etc.
The poster begins with comparison of prices between petrol and diesel on the forecourt in question. At this point the assumed premise is that it is a price comparison of fuel types available. But then it uses an EV fuelling price based on 90:10 home charging:public charging, but only mentions this in fine print at the bottom.
It is very misleading and anti-consumer, and if it fell under the remit of ASAI they would have found it the same.
How many people as they fuel up at the pumps are going to take the time to read the fine print? The majority only read the headlines, not the fine print. That holds true for most things.
The petrol and diesel figures also aren't for the station displaying the poster! They are all figures provided by the SEAI.
Nope, not missing any zeros. Picked up a perfectly good taxed and tested EV there myself a few weeks ago for €1,400. And here is a nicer car than my own, with long NCT. I doubt the seller would refuse €2k cash
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/renault-fluence-new-nct-electric-very-low-milage/36468642
Most of 2021 was still in the middle of record low fuel prices along with there being such little overall demand.
Prices only began to rise early 2022 and then skyrocketed to record highs once the war in Ukraine broke out.
While it may be comparatively small in the overall grand scheme of things in terms of tax take, it would still more than instantly double the cost of EV motoring per 100KM if you were to apply fuel-excise-equivalent charges to an EV.
And since there isn't a hope in hell that the government are going to forego that revenue earned from fuel excise, EVs will without a doubt be brought into a fuel-excise-equivalent regime at some point in the near future.
My guess would be on it being per-KM - not only would that be the easiest way to capture EVs under the tax net but it would also negate fuel laundering, using marked diesel for road use or home produced biodiesel overnight for existing ICE vehicles.
They also have a bad taste in their mouth when it comes to Electricity pices and don't trust the goverment. Was it yesteredays times had an article saying the green party are wrecking the place, they need high electricity prices to make the likes of solar look anyway feasable. The gig is up and the general public see what's going on. Eamon Ryan has even stated there won't be a return to cheap electricity, there definatley won't be if any of his hair brained schemes come to fruition. Let's store gas in a boat on the shannon, they're completley insane.
Most people who don't own EVs know you can charge them at home. They'd be considerably more ignorant of the public charging network and how it works and is priced.
It is irrelevant, as the poster doesn't state that it's achievable at that filling station. It literally states that it's a price based on 90% home charging, 10% public charging. If people are too stupid to properly read a clear poster, and jump to incorrect conclusions, then that's their problem.
What can be achieved t that specific filling station complete separate argument, that the poster doesn't make. Which of course it couldn't as it's a general advertising campaign, not one specifically tailored to each filling station.
So there is no lie. And the EV figure is entirely achievable.
If people want to concoct other scenarios where the figure isn't true, or the figure isn't achievable, then knock themselves out, but the conditions and methodology used to calculate that figure are perfectly sound.
There's nobody that doesn't already understand EV's who is going to know what that means in the small print. It's misleading to the average consumer.
What's even worse is the people who do know won't be topping up their car at the garage, they'll be reliant on the staff or the people who love the smell of burning Dinosaur bones in the morning, who'll inform them it's another waste of their tax and did you hear the about the girl on newstalk saying she won't even trade in an EV.
It's comparable to putting a Bill Gates bug burger advertisment up in the butchers shop.
It's a bad sign with a bad message. I can read it fine. But it's not what should be put in filling stations. The numbers work in favor of EVs, the tech is better than ICE, we don't need to fluff the numbers.
It can't be achieved at any filling station.
That's not irrelevant it's a fact.
The filling station ⛽ is being forced to advertise the benefits of a product (IE. home charging) which it doesn't sell.
That's turning normal business practice on its head.
That’s 13 l / 100 km consumption! Is this an old petrol engine Ford or an old Hyundai 7 seater ?
3km/kWh. 33kWh, or €22 to get you 100km. You are correct that is a big difference alright
Isn't there a method to create your own diesel from used frying oil and it works out about 30c/L? About a fifth of todays €1.70 prices....
you can buy a decent EV with tax and NCT for not much more than €1k now
Your point is correct but I think you're missing a zero in there, should it be €10k?
Not sure how many more times this has to be pointed out:
The figure is, as literally there in black and white on the poster, based on a blended mix of public and home charging. Saying that the figure can't be achieved at the station where the poster is is entirely irrelevant.
The poster doesn't say that figure is if you charge your car at that station. The figure on the poster is entirely achievable under the conditions played out on the poster and methodology on the advertised link.
You might as well be crying about the fact that someone at a service station in Cavan can get cheaper diesel 5km up the road, so the figure for diesel isn't correct.
A lot of people in here incapable of basic reading comprehension.
... not at the filling station where it is advertised though. Take the applegreen example. How do I achieve the 3.81 per 100km, at 68-75c/kWh?
I had an electric ID4 and changed to a Toyota hybrid at the start of the year. Looked at trading the ID4 in with Volkswagen who didn't want it, Toyota also didn't want it, they said they were troublesome and didn't have the necessary equipment to fix them if something goes wrong.
Had so many issues with the car, the software is half baked and the dealership struggled to fix mechanical issues.
Anybody looking at buying an EV based on fuel savings need to factor in the initial extra cost and the increased depreciation. While routine maintenance is cheaper than an ICE or Hybrid if anything goes wrong with them the cost of repairs is eyewatering. All the issues convinced me to sell up before the warrantee expired.
If the SEAI want detailed fuel pricing listed the garages should also clearly detail how much of the price per liter is heading to the state, what is it currently ~56% rising to about 65% in April? If there is a large shift towards EVs what are the odds that the government will add extra duties and levies to electricity charges to make up the shortfall?
Its entirely possible to achieve that EV price.
Yes but it is possible to achieve the petrol/diesel price. It is impossible to achieve the EV price
