Increase in road deaths - questions need to be asked

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121801193#Comment_121801193

Which of your family members are you offering up to make up this year's quota?

https://youtu.be/k2tOye9DKdQ?si=7zzhMSyC6RfAu363

NIMAN

None. Just pointing out that there is always going to be road deaths, we can't remove them all, no matter what measures are put in. Yes, we could reduce them if everyone slowed down and drove properly for the road conditions but humans will always make mistakes.

And that overall, the figures aren't increasing in line with increased cars on roads.

sbs2010

They should publicise the cause or most likely cause of each crash/death.

Awful for the people involved but if they made a big deal of it - eg say on the news exactly what happened, eg what speed, what drugs, phone use were involved. Who had seatbelt or not, etc, it would help people make the connection between all the safety advice and the gory details of dying.

Seth Brundle

It does seem like a lot of posters here are blaming younger drivers - it's not just them - it's all age groups in all vehicle types.

IMO it seems like there is a sense of absolute entitlement in some drivers and feck everyone else.

It is obviously the individual who makes the decision to break whatever road traffic law but this is enabled completely by an absence of enforcement. On top of that you have various loopholes along the judicial process making it appear almost pointless

well24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800542#Comment_121800542

Agree, also ppl who join motorways at 80km or less, dont get it? Your joining a motorway where cars are going 100 - 120 (or more) and you decide to pull in at 80... why? So dangerous..

The slow down rule doesnt apply everywhere :)

NIMAN

Blaming the Guards for road deaths is stretching things A LOT.

I live rurally. I know there is little chance of me being caught if I speed, drink drive or drive like a maniac. Do I do it? No, cause there's a thing called personal responsibility and not being an idiot. I enjoy life, and would prefer to live it for another while yet.

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800353#Comment_121800353

The lessons tell you how to pass a test that is driven at 50km/h, with maybe a little at 60kp/h. There's nothing about driving outside urban speed limits

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058337314/increase-in-road-deaths-questions-need-to-be-asked

Speed may be part of the issue but with several of the recent fatalities some people had no injuries while others died, seat belts seem to be used a lot less.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800892#Comment_121800892

Young people don't watch TV or listen to the radio so your ads won't be seen by those it's aimed at, online most use ad-blocking.

We need better driver training not restrictions. You can get a 1l car that can go 140km/h+ , even restricting cars to 80km/h wouldn't matter as we've plenty of roads where that's reckless. 12 lessons is not enough to teach people how to drive safely and it only teaches 52% of people how to pass the test. More lessons on different roads before you can do the test and harder tests are what's needed to improve drivers, then we need to enforce our laws.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800771#Comment_121800771

I got my licence I think 26 years ago and have never been breathalysed.

[Steve]

The lack of Garda presence is the real issue above all else.

In the last 2 years of driving..

• Checkpoints: 3 (2 nct/tax, 1 MIT)
• Massive increase on red light runners. If you were quick off a green light it may end up as an incident with one of them.
• VAG cars that have all sorts of shite slapped on them breaking speed limits everywhere; modified plates, windscreen stickers blocking most of their view, sitting so low they look like a 4 year old is driving.

At least GoSafe are out perfecting the art of hiding a van though, that's about it.

kaahooters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058337314/increase-in-road-deaths-questions-need-to-be-asked

wheres the evidance it was speed related?

in teh published report on 2023 incidents, it only mentions speed once,

https://www.rsa.ie/road-safety/statistics/road-traffic-collision-data

https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/road-safety/r2---statistics/provisional-reviews/infographic-of-fatalities-1-january-to-31-december-2023.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=b04931b6_5

the majority of incidents are in the west of the country, yes dublin has 15, and on weekends between midnight and 4am.

theres an incres in the amount of passnager deaths and 7 of 10 are on rural roads 80km or higher.

it dosent read like speed is a massive factor, it reads more like people are driving more carlessly in rural areas, late at nnight, on weekends, fatigue drink and drug use seem to be a much more likley indication of causes.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121801265#Comment_121801265

Just on changing attitudes; I don't recall ever having been brake tested in those 26 years till about three years ago and it's happened me I think three times now in those three years. In one of those cases the driver started swerving across lanes to prevent me from passing also.

Anecdotes are not data, I know - and it's easy to link that with covid, but there does seem to have been a shift in attitudes.

whisky_galore

Breathalysed once ever.

Stopped for tax, insurance maybe once or twice a year, some years never.

Never ever been dipped.

Driving since 1990s.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121801283#Comment_121801283

This year alone we have had a number of single vehicle collisions where one or more occupants died. What other factor could there be if not speed?

magicbastarder

many people conflate 'inappropriate speed' with 'exceeding the speed limit', and they're not the same.

it's pretty basic physics anyway that lowering your speed will not only reduce injuries and damage in a crash, it means it'll be easier to avoid the crash in the first place. speed is a sliding scale, not a binary yes/no when it comes to how much of a factor it is.

alias no.9

Every morning and evening that I'm on the M50, there are a ridiculous number of people on their phones. Some of the can be picked out from quite a distance away...

- not keeping up with the traffic in their lane

- drifting side to side in their lane

- randomly tapping the brakes for no apparent reason

If you happen to move up beside them in the next lane and glance across, sure as anything, there they are looking down at their phone.

Traffic lights as already mentioned, it's no longer a case of a fella taking a chance on a 'ripe orange', it's 3, 4 or even 5 cars ploughing through after the lights have changed to green for another direction, and it's drivers of all ages and genders.

I couldn't honestly tell you the last time I've encountered a non covid related checkpoint, Traffic Policing appears to have been reduced to GoSafe Vans and an occasional Garda speed trap.

kaahooters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121801319#Comment_121801319

drink, drugs, being on there phone, mechanical falure on the car, bad breaks/ tyres, not wearting seatbelt, older cars that arent as safe, incorrect limits on roads, but that leads into more inexperiance then anything.

now, as half of all accidents take place between 8pm and 8am on weekends and in the country, straight out the most likley factors drink/ drug driving, distraction, fatigue, and inexperiance.

Iodine1

Another factor is the practice of lowering the suspension on cars. It is common to see cars with the wheels leaning slightly after being lowered thus the geometry is wrong. Grand when crawling around a car park, what happens when you bottom out at speed? Unlike F1 there is no gravel to catch the car before crashing.

BrianD3

Although it doesn't seem to be the done thing anymore to show pics of cars involved in fatal crashes, I saw some footage of the the damage to the car in the recent N69 crash where two passengers died and the driver survived. Damage didn't look that bad, also the wall that they hit broke up so it's not like they hit a big tree or other "immovable" object. I'd say quite likely that some of them weren't wearing seatbelts. Will we hear anything about that or will it be buried in a coroner's report in a year's time

Will the driver who survived be prosecuted for causing death by dangerous driving. How about a mandatory 10 year sentence if convicted.

When these collisions happen, the reaction if predicable. It's a terrible tragedy, they were young, lovely people, they played GAA and attended college. Local councillors talking about how awful it is (it used to be the local priest rolled out but that seems to have fallen out of favour) Counselling arranged for their classmates. Are such reactions counterproductive?

magicbastarder

one of the issues here has been that irish road deaths hit a historical low a few years ago and the 'establishment' decided it was a solved problem, and that's one reason the number of gardai assigned to RPU has plummeted (among other reasons related to overall garda numbers too!).

but also the response from mcentee six months ago to the surge was to give more money to go-safe; it's certainly not a money making racket as far as the government are concerned, as that costs the state money - but it's great for go-safe, with an unproven effect on impact on speeding. as i've opined here plenty of times, i'm totally convinced the use of go-safe vans in the manner they're used results in more speeding, not less.

Furze99

You see, this is where the RSA/ state are pretty useless. They see a rise in fatalities and their kneejerk response is to lower all speed limits as this seems easy. Whereas there's little wrong with present limits as experienced drivers use and interpret them. All that will happen is that law abiding drivers will be inconvenienced whilst the reckless will ignore and continue as they are.

Far more effective to target safety policies at the age cohort and profile involved in most serious accidents. They are the ones that need to be reined in. Then take all unlicenced and uninsured drivers off the road. Then pay attention to black spots and fix them. These measure should all be taken first.

artanevilla

Been driving nearly 20 years. I've been breathalysed twice in that time and probably less than 10 checkpoints. I've done serious mileage in that time as well.

The standard of driving has (anecdotally) taken a HUGE dip in the past three or four years, some really aggressive driving, even at rush hour, red lights are just a suggestion, yellow boxes ignored, people on the M50 doing 100kmph+ when the lane beside them is at a standstill etc.

Was recently driving my partners car which has L-plates, driving on a residential road, narrow with cars parked either side leaving only space for one car to pass, ramps etc. that kind of road. I was driving at a normal speed, max 40 between the ramps even though 30 was probably more appropriate and slowing down for the ramps so I'm not getting air or scrapping the bumpers off the road (which seems to be the dejour thing to do at the moment also). Some lad driving right up my hole and then overtakes me beeping his horn. No way in hell any of that happens if I was in my own car without L plates. Just an example of the kind of attitude that is on the increase.

It's scary out there.

Curley75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800720#Comment_121800720

I've also had a similar conversation with two firemen, mobile phone usage is a serious factor in RTAs. I commute on a bike weekly from Waterford to Dublin, the amount of people with a head buried into a phone is unbelievable.

Back in the late 90s, you'd be stopped every 6 to 8 weeks, for the windscreen (tax, insurance), on occasion they also did a round of the car checking tyres, have a chat with you and make an informed decision if you were impaired or not. That doesn't happen now.

The existing limits are generally fine, think a 30km in town / village centre is a good thing, design that 30km zone tight, with design measures to slow vehicles down. Rural France is a great example of this.

Overall Garda enforcement is the key here.

I can see average speed cameras getting rolled out, I wouldn't mind seeing unmarked Garda bikes coming on stream, make it public that this is the case.

1. Start nailing mobile phone usage
2. The public will start actually looking out for bikes, for a while anyway.

magicbastarder

maybe we should ban all those car ads showing car ownership as some sort of rugged individualist choice.

NIMAN

Imagine dying because you needed to read Facebook or X. How sad a way to lose your life.

Imagine a family receiving that news. Your son died, crashed into a wall, but he was posting on X at the time.

SharkMX

Just last night saw a guy coming out of a supervalu car park as we were waiting crossing the road. His light had just gone green and he proceeds to spin the wheels full throttle, smoke everywhere and inches the car onto the main road. They tyre then bit and he ended up losing control and went onto the footpath missing a woman walking her dog by about 6 inches before the car turned back on to the road.

I got a good look at him as he was burning the rubber. Only about 20 years old on his own in the car. Probably thinks everyone looking at him when hes doing that thinks he is cool. The woman he nearly hit phoned the gardai but of course nothing will happen.

Its not speed that the problem its downright disregard of the law and safety of anyone. no matter how low the speed limits are the accidents will be caused by idiots going too fast or losing control of the car, overtaking dangerously or just plain showing off.

Comhrá

Re the phones, wasn't there some legislation introduced a few years back with a fine of something like a €1,000 fine for texting while in charge of a car? Was that particular law ever implemented? I've never heard of anyone charged with 'texting' as opposed to holding a phone.

Probably another example of bullsh1t legislation that's so poorly written that's it's unfit for purpose.

Have other countries got more effective phone use laws, I wonder?

ARX

As I've mentioned before, it's common to see cars parked illegally on footpaths within a stone's throw of Garda stations. And not all of these are the personal cars of Gardai. They simply can't be bothered to walk across the road from the station and move the driver on, much less ticket them for illegal parking.

While I doubt a car parked illegally outside a Garda station ever killed anyone, in failing to act the Gardai are making it clear that they just can't be arsed enforcing the law. So nobody - from the scrote on a scrambler to the well-watered businessman in a Merc - has any respect for (or fear of) - the Gardai.

Mikros

The number of Guards assigned to roads policing is at it's lowest in years, only 641 assigned at the end of 2023. The old road safety strategy for 2007 to 2012 (when Ireland was in the midst of a economic crisis) had a goal of 1,200 for roads policing which was nearly achieved but was quietly dropped in subsequent plans. You can have all the education, increased penalties, and ad campaigns in the world, but unless people believe there is a reasonable chance of getting caught, driver behavior does not change.

Coupled with that you have a booming economy and population which means more people than ever on the road. I don't think roads investment has kept pace, and a lot of new developments are going in without the infrastructure required (including public transport). There seems to be no appetite to roll out the likes of bus lane cameras, red light cameras, ANPR or other automatic systems to improve driver behavior. Car is still very much king in this country and politically anything than appears to interfere with that is very unpopular.

Finally I personally believe the return to the grind after covid made drivers more aggressive, less patient, and more willing to take risks. There was some deep fraying of society that is still unwinding today. Hard to describe but there definitely is a marked difference before covid and after covid.

Rechuchote

Road deaths will not start falling until we institute a series of cures:

First, we need to have immediate, stringently scientific analysis of every fatal crash, with photos of the scene (bodies blurred out), time and date and which direction the vehicle/s were going, who was involved, road condition, direction of the sun, speed of the vehicle/s, whether phones, tablets, etc were in use, and whether intoxicants were involved. And these need to be publish for the whole public to read, so that there will be no more need of anecdotal accounts.

People convicted of dangerous driving need a permanent and enforced driving ban. "I need my car for my work?" Too bad, shouldn't have driven dangerously, get a different job.

We need gardaí on ebikes. I see gardaí all the time, driving around with their eyes fixed straight ahead. There have to be some gardaí in cars, but we definitely need many gardaí patrolling on ebikes - eyes on the street, and people who will certainly enforce safety laws.

We need a system that shuts off phones and tablets when a car is moving. Need to talk to Dadda? Pull in and park, shut off the engine and have your chat, then when you're finished you can drive again. You shouldn't need to check Facebook or TikTok while driving; if you're driving you're a grown-up, behave like an adult.

We need all vehicles mechanically limited to the legal speed limit. Germany has no speed limit on motorways? Fine, gwan off and live in Germany, pet.