Increase in road deaths - questions need to be asked

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121814051#Comment_121814051

I don't need them to do that, there are plenty of others doing the same thing, but the responsibility is theirs. Based off the manner in which data is drip-fed by the RSA to the general public, "inappropriate speed" is responsible for many more deaths than actual speeding, so why then then is nothing being done to tackle that?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121815420#Comment_121815420

Complete semantics. The RSA are responsible for both regulation of instructors as you say, and also driver testing and licensing - which in effect sets the curriculum of the EDT lessons. Why is there no focus on training drivers on roads where the most fatal collisions occur?

JVince

You think it's bad now - you should have been driving in the 80's.

The Donegal to Dublin road in particular was crazy.

But you also have to look at the number of suicide crashes. Up to 15% of fatal crashes are thought to be suicide related.

magicbastarder

you mean donegal town to dublin? my dad once made it from dublin to inishowen in three hours, up the N2; he got an urgent call that his mother was dying, and we arrived half an hour too late.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121818046#Comment_121818046

You need to backup your assertions with data that inappropriate speeding causes more deaths than speeding.

Also that more education will be more effective than enforcement.

FazyLucker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808908#Comment_121808908

Have you ever used Uber in your life? Seriously like......

So, lets protect an entire industry where they are not providing a service to people in 2/3 of the country to protect the vested interests in the 1/3 of the country they do service. Anybody who lives in many of the small towns in this country will tell you taxi services are absolutely appalling and just because they work in the major cities that doesn't mean the whole industry needs to be protected.

"Real world"? I think you need to try living in it instead of a cuckoo land. Anyway, I'll ignore any responses because I'm arguing with an idiot.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121817956#Comment_121817956

What a tremendously sexist post, Ken. Maybe Karen works an an airline captain or consultant neuro surgeon and bought her husband the big car and he’s driving like an idiot?

I’ve seen tons of appalling driving all around.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121819002#Comment_121819002

who cares what someone works as if they drive like **** they drive like ****?

not to detract from the overarching point though and I definitely share the experience that people in SUV’s and simailr larger vehicles tend to act as if they own the road.

A lot of them can’t drive one either.

Get Real

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121818061#Comment_121818061

Also- and this isn't to diminish the absolute tragedy a single death on our roads is- but out of 30 European countries, only 4 have a lower road death rate than us.

Obviously, the goal should always be towards 0 deaths on the roads. Even if that's not realistically possible, it's important to strive towards.

Road deaths get alot of coverage in the national media here (as they should) and people across the country see on the evening news the names,faces, family and sometimes clips of that persons funeral.

It makes it much closer to home for all of us. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But as a result, it makes it seem like it's much more common in this country specifically when in fact, it's not.

If I live in Dresden I'm not going to have a news report of a 20 year old tragically killed in Hamburg beamed into my sitting room in the national news.

In 2022 Irelands rate for fatal traffic incidents was 31/million. The EU average was 46/million. Some countries are as high as 86/million.

Out of 30 countries in this list, we are 5th lowest https://transport.ec.europa.eu/news-events/news/road-safety-20640-people-died-road-crash-last-year-progress-remains-too-slow-2023-10-19_en

Edit: I hope nobody confuses this post to mean I'm indifferent towards road deaths. They are one of the most heartbreaking incidents to happen to friends and family. So many questions. So many "what ifs" and a difficulty processing what has happened. My post was in relation to the facts and figures of where our country is at. We should of course, always strive to continuously improve these figures.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121819180#Comment_121819180

In fairness if someone’s too lazy to get dressed in the morning what hope is it they’ll walk?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121819142#Comment_121819142

As I usually ask, what would happen to road death rates in Ireland if the same proportion of people took to their bikes as do in NL?

NL has slightly higher total numbers than we do but the percentage of journeys made by bike their is many, many times what it is in Ireland.

Brussels Sprout

With today's technology how difficult would it be to put cameras in traffic lights that would capture the cars that blatantly drive through when it's red? I live in a city centre and there's an epidemic of that even around junctions with heavy pedestrian use. It's both selfish & dangerous and needs to be stamped out ruthlessly.

ARX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121819411#Comment_121819411

It's not that it would be difficult. It's that it would be unpopular.

chalkitdown1

The amount of people I see driving with phones in their laps is actually scary. Not on the dash, or in a cradle attached to the front windscreen etc, but literally sat in their lap that they have to look down at and take their eyes off the road. I see it almost daily. At every red light in the city, if you looked around you'd see someone doing this. How impatient are the general public now that they can't NOT be distracted for even a few minutes.

Same sh!t in cinemas but that's another rant for another time.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121819482#Comment_121819482

I doubt that's it. After all speed limits and toll booths are unpopular.

I suspect that it's possibly legal complications rather than technical ones but I don't know that for sure.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813812#Comment_121813812

I'm heartened to see somebody else point out the same flaws in that RSA Free Speed Survey as I've done so myself on other threads in the past.

It refers only to vehicles in very particular circumstances which are not at all typical - i.e. no sharp bends or intersections, at times of low traffic and relatively good weather, and with at least 200 metres of clear space in front of them. It also counts a vehicle as speeding if doing even just 1 km/h over the posted limit. Furthermore, it gives no indication of the margins by which "speeding" drivers were exceeding the posted speed limit.

So, while a certain poster regularly uses to it to assert "98% of drivers speeding on urban roads", what it actually says is:

"98% of drivers on the small subset of urban national roads with a posted limit of 30 km/h exceeded that limit, possibly by as little as 1 km/h, at times between 5.30 and 7.30 a.m., when they didn't have to watch for bad bends or junctions, when it wasn't raining, and when they had an open road ahead."

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121818332#Comment_121818332

I would suggest that it's up to the body responsible for developing and implementing road safety strategy to release clear data. Admittedly a little out of date now, but look at the below RSA commissioned report, subtitled "Excessive speed as a factor". They have pulled together 51 pages of data, and somehow managed exclude a table of estimated vehicle speed at the time of the fatal collision.

From a technical documentation point of view, that omission is simply not credible. Repeatedly mentioning the prevailing speed limit of the road, but not whether it is believed the driver was actually above the limit, is hiding something.

https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/road-safety/r2---statistics/provisional-reviews/fatal-collisions-2008-to-2012-excessive-speed.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=56ffb496_3

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820498#Comment_121820498

You've posted assertions with zero reference, that even has even less credibility.

As for the RSA, if you don't like their reports post some alternatives.

https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/road-safety/annual-conference-2022/rrd_res_20221021_vbconferencepresfinal.pdf?sfvrsn=fa7b9352_5

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820948#Comment_121820948

Given that a huge component of Ireland's road safety strategy surrounds the enforcement of speed limits, and not inappropriate speed, you don't find it in any way strange that drivers breaking the speed limit isn't even mentioned in a report about speeding? Your slide deck doesn't mention it either.

The RSA are proponents of enforcing existing limit, but are unwilling to publish how many fatalities are even linked to breaking the limit. They are the ones lacking credibility here, not me for proposing the most logical reason why that may be.

Edit: I've submitted an FOI request for this in the meantime. I'll report back when they respond.

AndrewJRenko

Interesting to see a fairly hard hitting front page from the UK

https://twitter.com/graeme_brown/status/1762021174488215876

Meanwhile on RTE News, schoolkids are singing a song with Drew Harris to focus on phone use.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821194#Comment_121821194

you’re comparing a local paper to a national broadcaster

but it shouldn’t be a surprise tbh.

Phone use is a huge problem here, slowness to pull off at lights is fairly a constant, as is reluctance to stop at red lights at times because no attention has been given to actually driving. I have seen plenty of people looking at phones whilst driving.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121819411#Comment_121819411

Regularly in Derry I would watch 3 or 4 cars go through red lights. So much so, that cars entering the junction(with a green light) have to wait to let them through otherwise they'd be a crash. Ignorant gulpins.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821071#Comment_121821071

Well it does. "...Overall, 77% of drivers were found to have driven in excess of the posted speed limit of 50km/h...."

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821397#Comment_121821397

Phone use for text, email etc while driving is out of control. I do a lot of mileage all over the country and I can just about put up with the phone to the ear use as they visibly slow down and become annoying but the texting causes them to swerve all over the road. I've had a few close encounters on N and R roads.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821467#Comment_121821467

Is that really applicable data when it comes to fatalities on the road?

Good weather, no other road users within 200m, no intersections, no traffic, no bends.... No proper report published for 2021 (that I can find).

But from 2018, half of those speeding in a 50km/h zone were doing under 60km/h (and may have been doing 56km/h), and 81% of those breaking the limit may have been doing below 61km/h. The location is unpublished and may have been 5m after a speed limit change.

Are you seeing how the RSA's data here is utterly amateur?

The is still no link back to how many people who caused a fatal collision were actually going over the limit, vs those who were going too fast for the conditions.

If it's so obvious, why can't they show that link and easily justify the speed camera programme?

Flinty997

Its appropriate when someone claims its never mentioned.

You think speed camera's need justifying....why are you against speed camera's.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821467#Comment_121821467

Yes, and that's also the result of a "Free Speed" survey, with free speed being defined as "the speed at which drivers choose to travel when unconstrained by road geometry (e.g. sharp bends, intersections or hills), weather conditions (e.g. rain) or traffic conditions (e.g. congestion)."

And a couple of lines later, it tells how 50% of those who exceeded the limit did so by no more than 10 km/h, which means that even in "free speed" conditions where you could put the boot down, the majority of drivers still did no more than 60 km/h. And bearing in mind that the RSA counts it as speeding if you drive at even 1 km/h over the limit, it's even possible that the majority did no more than 55 km/h. However, it's impossible to tell that, because of how the RSA is so selective with the data it publishes.

Flinty997

Maybe they should redefine speeding as 10% over the limit, or 25% or 50% At which point "shuure its graaaaand" would you like it defined as.

It could be a 80kph limit in thick fog, heavy rain and they would be under the limit. I suppose thats ok also.