Increase in road deaths - questions need to be asked

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807238#Comment_121807238

This type of systems might be patentable, but are for too cumbersome and prone to failure in the real world, and still won't prevent you from doing your makeup.

Driver monitoring systems (DDAW) have been in use for years in various guises for over 15 years, and have been mandatory on type approvals since July 22, and for all new vehicles from July this year. This can use steering torque sensors, timer and monitor pedal movement for example to recognize signs of drowsiness or distraction.

ADDW, tracking eye movement, is required for new type approvals from this year, and mandatory for all from 2026.

Europe is among the regions with clearly defined regulations mandating the installation of vision-based Driver Monitoring Systems (DMS). Established in 2019 by the EU General Safety Regulation (GSR), all motor vehicles falling under categories M and N are required to be equipped with Driver Drowsiness and Attention Warning (DDAW) systems. This regulation applies to new types of vehicles from July 6, 2022, and to all new vehicles from July 7, 2024. Specifically, DDAW must identify driving and/or steering patterns indicative of a driver experiencing reduced alertness due to fatigue. It is designed to interact with and alert the driver through the vehicle's human-machine interface, primarily utilizing passive sensing technologies like steering patterns.

As regulations become more stringent, the EU introduced additional requirements. According to the second set of documents, all new types of vehicles must incorporate an Advanced Driver Distraction Warning (ADDW) system. This requirement is effective from mid-2024 for motor vehicles falling under categories M and N for new types and from July 7, 2026, for all new vehicles.

In contrast to DDAW, which primarily monitors steering patterns, the ADDW system focuses on observing driver eye movements and issues warnings when distractions are detected.

https://www.idtechex.com/en/research-article/regulations-drivers-for-mandating-driver-monitoring-systems/30322#:~:text=Established%20in%202019%20by%20the,vehicles%20from%20July%207%2C%202024.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121803778#Comment_121803778

It's a race to the bottom that at best will provide a short term gain, but will make taxi driving a less feasible option for many people, whether full time or part time, by driving down income levels for drivers.

If Uber was approved, do you think the drivers will be hanging round small villages waiting for their fares? Not a chance, they'll be heading off to the nearest towns and cities to get regular fares there.

You're dreaming if you think Uber is the solution.

I'm not telling anyone where to live. I'm telling you that if people choose to live up the back of a bohreen, they're going to find it more difficult to get access to transport there.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808145#Comment_121808145

Apologies, typo corrected now. Should have read;

Or possibly, and bear with me for this wild and crazy suggestion, Garda drivers shouldn't be using their phones while driving?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807519#Comment_121807519

I just pulled a results at random that were specific to Ireland. Because Ireland is very poor at recording and analysing meaningful statistics on anything.

From the RSA themselves. ....

"...

Driving at excessive speed increases the likelihood of a collision occurring, and the severity

of injury sustained should a collision occur3. It has been estimated that 10–15% of all

collisions and 30% of fatal collisions are the result of speeding or inappropriate speed4.

The current penalties for speeding in Ireland are as follows:

Offence Penalty

Speeding €80 fine (if paid within 28 days) plus 3 penalty points. Fine increases to €120

if not paid within the 28 days. On conviction in court, there is a maximum

fine of €1,000 and 5 penalty points.

RSA analysis of coronial data for driver fatalities5 (2014-2018) has demonstrated that 24%

of driver fatalities with a record of their actions available were exceeding a safe speed. This

refers to driving above the speed limit and/or driving at an unsafe speed for the

road/conditions.

Data from the RSA’s observational study of free speed in 2018 found that 52% of car

drivers on urban roads (≤60km/h speed limits) and 27% of car drivers on rural roads

(≥80km/h speed limits) were driving above the speed limit.

In 2021, the RSA commissioned a pilot observational study of free speed on a selection of

urban roads with a 50km/h speed limit. Initial findings indicate that:

◼ 78% of drivers were driving in excess of the posted speed limit of 50km/h.

◼ During the week, 75% of observed drivers were driving in excess of 50km/h.

◼ At the weekend, 93% of observed drivers broke the 50km/h speed limit.

The RSA’s 2021 Driver Attitudes and Behaviour survey found that only 43% of motorists

think exceeding 50km/h limits by more than 10km/h is ‘totally unacceptable’. Only 46% of

motorists think exceeding 100km/h limits by more than 10km/h is ‘totally unacceptable’..."

I'm not saying all speeding is dangerous (2kph over limit) etc. But trying to dismiss it as an issue due the wording of statistics is up there with flat earth theories.

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807959#Comment_121807959

So if it did work, it would impact all passenger phones too?

It says on the links that passenger phones are unaffected due to the lower power of the system.

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808368#Comment_121808368

The driver warning systems are to prevent you falling asleep at the wheel - they arent for mobile phone usage.

Theyre usually a vibration in the steering wheel if you veer too far over the lines or it detects you arent paying attention through your movements while driving etc.

Id ask why phone usage couldnt be implemented into the ADDW system - ie you avert your eyes to send a text and the car notifies you??

Maybe thats the way to go.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808646#Comment_121808646

What does that mean?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808663#Comment_121808663

Avert your eyes to adust the heating or find the fog lights switch?

FazyLucker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808414#Comment_121808414

Where did he say they'd be hanging around small villages waiting for a fare? You can easily plan a fare for tomorrow evening to pick them up at whatever time wherever and agree a fare. Have you ever even used any of these services? You clearly don't understand it.

I can tell you one thing - in the REAL world - where most of us live - the solution is not having drunk people coming out of a pub and having no alternative to get home and getting in to a car and driving drunk. Where it is financially unviable for a full time taxi service, the solution is having an alternative for them where they can plan how they get where they want - which Uber etc can provide through casual employment.

If you think it is not the solution, and that the current situation is fine, then you are living in cuckoo land and don't understand what is happening in the real world.

27k posts, mother of god......

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808898#Comment_121808898

Oh yeah, the scenario outlined of the four lads pre-drinking, they'll be great lads for planning their travel requirements 24 hours in advance AND being ready at the booked time for pickup! Real world lads, real world.

If people are going to pubs drinking, they need to look after their own arrangements - get lifts, get mates, get family, whatever. That's what the rest of us do, whether in cities or towns or not. Take some responsibility for themselves, rather than expecting to destroy an entire industry just to look after a few pissheads.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808556#Comment_121808556

It has been estimated that 10–15% of all collisions and 30% of fatal collisions are the result of speeding or inappropriate speed.

They never differentiate between "speeding" and "inappropriate speed" when they give this statistics and I suspect it's because a large chunk of the events fall under the "inappropriate" category and not simply breaking the speed limit.

It's not "speeding" to be doing 70-75kph on an 80kph back road in the dark in the pissing rain but it is probably "inappropriate speed".

No amount of fixed cameras solves that - I know they are supposed to be revising all the speed limits to address the stupid limits on some roads , but actual enforcement of road traffic laws beyond speeding is what is needed here.

A lot more tickets/convictions for "driving without due care and attention" or whatever the relevant offence is required to adjust behaviour.

Viscount Aggro

How about roundabouts.

I know the rule is, to give way to traffic from the right. I keep getting stuck entering roundabouts, heavy traffic volumes, cars barreling into it, at 60kph or more. Only way I can move forward is by risking a pile up.

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808813#Comment_121808813

The links I posted - It says passengers phones are unaffected by the systems - only the drivers phone.

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808815#Comment_121808815

If you want to be pedantic - you arent supposed to take your eyes off the road to do either of those things either.

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808414#Comment_121808414

From what I have seen in places that have Uber it's not really any cheaper than a taxi (but much handier generally) and in many places such as the UK you need a licence to drive an Uber same as a taxi. Though what is an actual uber and what is just a taxi getting fares from the Uber app is hard to know in some places - the Uber app works in Ireland now but its just the same pool of cars as the other apps such as freenow.

I think having something like Uber might help in having a few more local taxis - in my area there is one or two illegal "taxis" i.e. local lads who will give lifts home to people in their spare time in the evenings in exchange for a cash fare of course. The likes of these would be able to legitimately do it in an Uber like system.

My own thoughts though is that a local link type subsidised taxi service is needed in rural areas. One or two drivers in an area who are available 7 days a week from say 6pm to closing and just hang around (or sit at home waiting for a call) to run people home from local pubs for a reasonable fee. They likely wont get enough fares to make it worth while but they could be subsidised. If people are serious about stopping drink driving this is whats needed - cheap and convenient ways to get home.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807043#Comment_121807043

I'm certainly not blaming foreigners solely for escalating RT statistics. Resident LH drive cars are but one factor that could & should be addressed - pick the low hanging fruit first. Solve the easy problems.

Enjoy the trip to Spain and doubtless you'll adapt, I've always found car parks and the like trickier than ordinary roads.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808663#Comment_121808663

There is a difference between what currently is mandated, and what will be mandatory from this July.

You mentioned Lane Departure Warning in there, which is different again.

Drowsiness and Attention Warning (DDAW)

Currently mandated DDAW is not legally required to use eye tracking, but if your attention is degraded sufficiently by phone usage, it will give a warning. If you can use your phone, while still maintaining the same driving profile as before, then it wont issue a warning.

Advanced Driver Distraction Warning (ADDW) 

This is intended to track phone usage, and many other distractions, via eye tracking. This is essential to ensure that a driver is paying attention and is ready to take over in the case of semi-autonomous driving.

Rechuchote

When self-driving cars become the norm, a side effect is expected to be that because of the reduction in crashes there will be a steep drop in the number of organs available for transplant. Think about what that says about our driving standards.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809218#Comment_121809218

borrowing my ma's tiny little citroen C1 or C2 or whatever it is, so at least it's not big and clunky for parking!

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809771#Comment_121809771

It's more that things are clearer on an ordinary road in terms of driving side and junctions.

In a car park, like at a supermarket etc., it's not always so obvious. We get used to interpreting what other drivers will do here in these vaguer spaces and thus it's easier to get confused in these places on the continent.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809806#Comment_121809806

i've driven plenty on that side but in the correct type of car so this will be weird

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808646#Comment_121808646

My phone (iPhone 14) has a setting in Focus for driving where when the phone connects to Bluetooth in the car it goes into driving mode.

Phone only works with Hey Siri and if someone tries to call or text me they get an automatic text that says I’m driving and will get back to them as soon as I’ve stopped.

This could easily be made mandatory somehow by software in cars or phones I imagine. The moment your phone knows you’re in the car driving mode kicks in and won’t operate again until the cars stopped and switched off.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121810762#Comment_121810762

The phone may know that you are in a car, but it cannot know if you are the driver.

Windowsnut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808556#Comment_121808556

Very few people comply with the posted speed limits in this country, so saying speeding is an issue is a bit of a cop out on part of the RSA.

very very poor road design is also a major issue.

I drove into Bellingham from the M7 last week - the road has a body count, in a reasonably straight road (with treacherous ditches either side and poor levels) there are headstones dotted all along it!

In Knocklyon a new bus stop has been built on a notorious blind spot at a busy junction.

None of the M50 interchanges are standard, you have to go east to go west at Blanchardstown junction.

the design of speed bumps is pretty much whatever you are having yourself…

There is no enforcement of the road design standard with councils the length and breath of the country.

there is no set standard for driving and we fail to teach the consequences and responsibilities of proper driving with our young people.

but we accept it as the norm, same for our standards in public office, we have none!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121811271#Comment_121811271

I'm sure the RSA have other publications and speeding on speeding. Just the first thing that came up.

Someone suggested there was no data, then ok data but nothing from the RSA, now not enough form the RSA.

Can't win.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809139#Comment_121809139

How does it tell the difference between;

• driver's phone
• driver's spare phone
• passenger phone(s)

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121810762#Comment_121810762

So they bring a spare phone. These are the drivers who bring dummy seat belt clips to suppress the warning bell, because wearing seat belts isn't cool.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121810795#Comment_121810795

Do you often connect a passenger phone to the car Bluetooth? I can’t say I share that problem.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121811864#Comment_121811864

I think you can find a hole in any plan unfortunately it’s a case of managing to the best of ability (or available technology).

Like sure the driver could have tow phones, but how many people actually have two phones really and moreso how many people will buy a second phone just to circumvent the law?

In my opinion & I might be way off I don’t think most people use the phone to one up the law or just be a gobshite (which you are regardless), I think we’ve just become too used to tapping on the bloody things every time we are idle.

you see it the whole time in logjam traffic and at lights. Also I find a lot of folk just instinctively grab the phone when it beeps or buzzes.

tl;dr

there’s no perfect solution honestly.

creedp

Was in a friends car today, a 201 eclass. Phone rings and he answers it. Put on the phone speaker and holds the phone in his hand while driving. When I asked him why he hadn't tethered the phone to car he said he changed his phone 6 months ago and just hadn't got around to doing it🤔

When he finished I took the phone off him and tethered it. Unreal.