Ian Bailey RIP - threadbans in OP

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653450#Comment_121653450

So nothing then. It's a fact earlier on the thread you claimed Bailey got up "at midnight", and asked me to comment on this.

You have been utterly unable to backup that claim. Nowhere does Senan Maloney provide proof of your claim. Nowhere. Don't pretend otherwise and misrepresent what Maloney said.

You've provided zero facts in support of it. Proof positive it was a canard.

Your claims have no credibility.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653236#Comment_121653236

I remember once (while working in SuperQuinn, actualy also on December 23, which was a saturday that year. A car rocks up to the store, just after closing time, he was looking for a christmas tree and was annoy to find the store closed, and ask what time we would open the next day (Christmas EVE).

He was quite annoyed to find out we were closed, It was Sunday, and Department Stores and Supermarkets did not open on Sundays at that time.

So cutting trees that late was not too odd.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653415#Comment_121653415

the forensic examiner didn't botch anything

the garda 100%, but not necessarily the crimescene itself, just afterwards

a one off killing like that can be impossible to solve, it is unbelievably remote down there

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653458#Comment_121653458

Ok you asked me to prove where Senan Maloney said this

The proof is above in quotes

I'll let someone else confirm what Senan Maloney states is in fact the truth . I believe it's established but am not bothering to google again to satisfy you

Btw you've a very aggressive argumentative posting style full of rambling rhetoric

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653263#Comment_121653263

But you must remember it was a different ERA.

"Typing" an article might mean a noisy mechanical typewriter, rather than a modern laptop/smart phone. It is belivible that someone might go someone so as not to wake a partner.

AudreyHepburn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653428#Comment_121653428

We also know for an undisputed fact that he beat Jules Thomas to within an each of her life on many occasions prior to the murder of Sophie.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653405#Comment_121653405

I know it has likely spurred on conspiracy theories around hitmen and so forth but yes I did think it strange myself - I would have wanted to be there, looking at the police eye to eye and ensuring all was being done to catch my wife’s killer - him not coming over doesn’t “prove” anything I know, but it was still strange

AudreyHepburn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653247#Comment_121653247

No one is rejoicing at anything. We’re simply saying that all RIP and ‘poor Ian’ comments have no place here.

He’s no loss, I for one won’t be mourning him.

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653521#Comment_121653521

That part I agree with, that's plausible

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653494#Comment_121653494

Didn't the forensic examiner wait nearly 3 days before turning up to examine the crime scene, during which time the body was left outside in the middle of winter?

I'd call that botched.

nc6000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653531#Comment_121653531

Yep, I'm not suggesting it means he was involved but I don't understand it myself.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653569#Comment_121653569

Why not? I don’t care either way but I don’t understand why this sort of posting is deemed acceptable when threads about a recently deceased person usually come with reminders to be respectful and the usual emotive nonsense.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653675#Comment_121653675

Where’s the rejoicing? You were caught out there lad. Very very little point in having a moan about something that doesn’t exist.

RetroEncabulator

It's fairly clear the investigation was a total mess, which seems to largely come down to the fact that murders are an extremely rare occurrence in West Cork and the whole thing was handled without significant local experience, and then it got compounded later by a French court procedure claiming universal jurisdiction, and a judicial process that could only be described as bizarre.

From an Irish point of view, at least from what I understand, the case drove a reorganisation of how such cases would be handled in future i.e. expert and experienced detectives and professional pathologists stepping in much earlier and changes to procedures.

I wouldn't get too high and mighty about French investigation and prosecution processes either. There plenty of examples of miscarriages of justice, botched cases, gaslighting and trials based on circumstantial evidence that would be regarded as hearsay and totally inadmissable here.

Their whole criminal prosecution system is completely different and the role of the court is more to conduct a judge led inquest rather than to facilitate an adversarial trial, but in general the standards of evidence and burden of proof seem to be far lower. That last court case just wouldn't have been possible here at all as the standards of evidence required to even bring a case to court are much higher. The DPP couldn't bring a case like that based on what would be regarded here as very flimsy evidence. You'd almost certainly have lost and it would then be potentially impossible or at least extremely challenging to bring a subsequent prosecution under the double-jeopardy concept, which applies in Ireland and most Common Law jurisdictions.

You'd feel very sorry for the family, as they never really got a conclusion to this and it looks rather like it could end up never being solved.

Ultimately, the whole thing is a rather grim set of events that underscores the importance of tightly managed and standardised investigative procedures that are capable of dealing with a complex crime, regardless of where it occurs. Justice was never done and a clear, safe prosecution was never possible and it resulted in a lot of anguish for far too many years.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653675#Comment_121653675

Not many of the deceased people are known wife-beaters who are also suspected of murder though.

Now that there is no longer a risk of the site being found complicit of defamation, I think it's perfectly fair for there to be MORE discussion of that aspect of his life, rather than less.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653682#Comment_121653682

Several “Good riddance” comments and the likes

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653632#Comment_121653632

it was 26 hours before he arrived, given it would have taken about 5 hours to get there from dublin at least, so the next day. The issue was he was the only one in the country, what do you do when there are 2 cases.

Not much point doing it at night, in the middle of winter.

the 3 days you mentioned is exactly what is wrong with the whole thing, peoples not listening, bothering to actually find out and just exagerating

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653763#Comment_121653763

Not exactly rejoicing is it though. You seem a very precious sort.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653705#Comment_121653705

the mess thing is totally over played, it wasn't really a mess until Marie Farrell got involved

There was a load of work done on the case, lots of suspects, lots of interviews, its hard to know what else people expect to come from it

they certainly didn't hold onto evidence in the long term and sure maybe that would have helped, but after the 20 years that had passed by that stage, the chances were gone.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653632#Comment_121653632

The State Pathologist (then Professor John Harbison) arrived 28 hours later.

But at that time he was only "State Pathologist" and while he did over 100 post mortem, he was not oncall 24/7. The murder occured on his birthday, and we was uncontactable for a period that day.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653705#Comment_121653705

Best post in this thread, logical and factual. Both the Bailey bashers and Garda conspiracy theorists could do with absorbing this post.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653786#Comment_121653786

The murder occured on Professor Harbison birthday, which was part of the delay.

RetroEncabulator

That really just says a lot about the resourcing of the state pathology unit at the time. It seems to have basically been totally dependent on one individual being on call 24/7. It's not possible to provide 24/7/365 coverage on that basis. The fact it was someone wasn't available wasn't down to the reason why, but rather that there was no cover.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653495#Comment_121653495

You were caught out making an errant claim about what happened "at midnight". There's a world of difference between saying something happened "at midnight" and "after midnight", which could mean several hours later.

So your own sources are contradicting you. Nowhere does the Senan Maloney piece you quoted mention "at midnight." Nowhere. It's not there in his text. Don't pretend otherwise.

So spare us the BS about trying to play the victim.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bailey-denies-trying-to-strangle-ex-wife/25918450.html

This article references his ex wife Sara Limbrick. She’s a journalist specialising in reporting on court cases.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653841#Comment_121653841

Do many people get a day off work for their birthday?

Either he was supposed to be available or he wasn't. If he wasn't then why was there no procedure to ensure that evidence wasn't destroyed until he did become available?

It may not have been his personal fault, but it was certainly a failing of the service as a whole. and as head of the service, I presume he had some input into what should happen in the case that he wasn't available.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653927#Comment_121653927

That's an article of second hand rumours from 2003.

It contains zero actual evidence or testimony from the ex wife Sara Limbrick.

The judge said there was absolutely no evidence Mr Bailey was violent towards his ex-wife Sarah Limbrick and he was defamed. He awarded damages of €8,000 against The Irish Sun and Irish Daily Mirror.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-20436242.html

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653938#Comment_121653938

Actually, some companies give employes a day off in thier Birthday Month, mine does.

But apart from that, how many people are on call 24/7/365. He was entitled to take leave. It's not his fault the government did not see fit to recruit a deputy for him.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653854#Comment_121653854

I think that depends on how often he was expected to be available. 100 PMs a year is one every three or 4 days. Even assuming each PM lasts a day, plus a day for writing up a report, that's quite a way from a 5-day week, so it's not like he'd be working 24/7.

In those circumstances I'd expect him to be able to make himself available pretty much as and when he was needed, and to catch up on the time off afterwards. He'd also be getting overtime for working on weekends or over holidays.

It's not a 9 to 5 job, and is presumably remunerated accordingly.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653972#Comment_121653972

I've replied to this above. He wouldn't have been working 24/7, but it's not a 9 to 5 job. So having to cancel leave from time to time is hardly surprising. Lots of people have to do this from time to time, and murderers are hardly going to give advance warning.

(I've literally never heard of an employer giving people a day off for their birthday, but in any case you say it's their "birthday month", not the day itself. I suspect it's highly unusual, and never in jobs which are both time dependent but also can't be planned in advance.)