Boeing 737 Max

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624933#Comment_121624933

Realistically though there are hundreds (?) of these in the air all day every day, and has been for years now.

Your chances of being on one that crashes are pretty poor.

Back Home

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121623157#Comment_121623157

Wrong, the plane was perfectly stable, MCAS was badly implemented anti stall software. The Queen of England flew on the Comet after it had several fatal crashes, I think you'll be fine on the max. Flight crews will not and are not allowed to knowingly fly unsafe aircraft. Your fears are not unfounded but statically you have the same risk in any aircraft.

StudentDad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625011#Comment_121625011

Again, this isn't about statistics. This is about trust. I do not trust Boeing. They implemented a system on one of their jets that they knew was faulty. The sensor broke, the software overrode the efforts of the pilots and two planes crashed. Their response to those crashes has been appalling and now, there are more faults coming to light. It was only due to what? The luck of the gods that the latest craft wasn't at 30,000ft when the door blew off?

StudentDad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624919#Comment_121624919

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624931#Comment_121624931

Yes, it is an unfortunate limitation in the regulations. Again though, rather than increase the time limit, the FAA and others complain that the cost to upgrade to 25/26 hours would be prohibitive.

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625138#Comment_121625138

So you concede that it isnt a Boeing fault?

StudentDad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625781#Comment_121625781

I never said it was a fault of Boeings. I said it was unfortunate that after the most recent incident, the voice recorder is unavailable because it erased itself after two hours.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624963#Comment_121624963

I'm referring to the actual bolts and whether bolts of same specification are used in other areas of the aircraft. Could they be a new spec and perhaps prone to loosening?

If it was known that those type of bolts were only used on the door of the max 9, it might offer some hope but it's more likely that those bolts are all over multiple aircraft types.

On the other hand, the bolts might be 100 perfect suitable but the issue is down to factory QA standards among staff. That again means that its unlikely that an issue would be confined to a specific part of the max 9 and would likely be present across multiple types again.

tomhammer..

I'd be keeping my seatbelt on if I was getting into one of the maxis which I won't be

MarkN

Keep it on regardless of aircraft, CAT isn’t a made up phenomenon.

tomhammer..

Cat ?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628351#Comment_121628351

Clear Air Turbulence

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628351#Comment_121628351

Clear Air Turbulence.

One of the reasons that the flight/cabin crew advise you to "keep your seatbealt loosely fastened at all times while seated"

Baba Yaga

all i can say as a complete aviation-illiterate it really doesnt inspire a whole lot of confidence that these particular planes(and maybe others) dont seem to be bolted/riveted/welded together too well...and no,im not wild enthusiastic about flying in the first place!

Tippman24

Last weeks Sunday Times had a good article about Boeing and where it finds itself at the moment. It is 45 Billion Dollars in debt and has failed to turn a profit since 2018. It cannot afford to develop a new plane from scratch given the costs associated with such an outcome. Reading the bottom line in the article I dont think Boeing will be allowed to fail,as per paper it keeps Airbus on their toes

HTCOne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625930#Comment_121625930

It isn't the bolts' fault they weren't tightened/secured correctly on the final assembly line.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630803#Comment_121630803

Do we know that they were loose leaving factory?

Do we know whether they are bolts with split pin securing or wire fixing system or were they just normal bolts relying on an agreed torque to ensure they remain secure?

As I said, there are 2 possibilities. Either they were never tightened or they worked loose.

Never tightened means a major issue within the factory suggesting no proper checks being carried out. That could mean a similar problem can happen in any component of the aircraft..... result unsafe.

If its a case of the bolts working loose in use, well that's equally worrying and the first question would have to be if these are a specific bolt only used for that assembly or whether the same bolt design is in other parts of the aircraft. There is such a thing as an improperly designed bolt be it material or physical design that could result in loosening in operation..... if loosened in use and bolt is used repeated within the airframe...... result unsafe.

You might say im taking a very simplistic view and aviaton engineering is way beyond what im talking about given the research and design and high grade materials that are exclusively used but the fact remains that loose bolts are present on the aircraft. So the 2 possibilities are valid.

Answers needed for me anyway before I'd consider any new design Boeing safe.

FunkyDa2

737 Technical Aspects of AS1282 Updated (youtube.com)

banie01

In all likelihood a run of the mill maintenance issue that requires a part be replaced, the type of failure that happens as part of the due course of routine flight ops.

That said, another one of those moments at the worst possible time for Boeing and especially given the amount of media at Davos.

The kicks keep coming in this week for Boeing.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67947341

StudentDad

In relation to Boeing, this bloke says it all really:

https://youtu.be/lgCb9Ux3bAE?si=_uINrPJW_HM2KxW5

L1011

News media making a bit of a thing out if being a 737 involved in the KLM runway excursion also. This is, again, not related to the airframe in any way but if a 737 gets mentioned in anything it is going to be connected to the other issues.

Happened to the DC10 after its McDD caused problems, things like the engine that was never properly installed by a maintenance team got blamed on McDD

Hotblack Desiato

In fairness that DC-10 should never have crashed even after the engine ripped itself out, the slats retracted on one side because they did not latch in position (by design) and the crew were unaware of this, the slat disagree system was powered by the engine which had just departed, as was the stick shaker (only fitted on the captain's side).

Captain_Crash

Yeah that DC10 crash at O’Hare is a classic case of Swiss cheese…. everything lined up and it ended in disaster, if just one thing had have been different it likely would have been able to comfortably return and land safely, if not a bit over speed!

Hotblack Desiato

Even with all those failures, just an extra few knots might have saved them.

Captain_Crash

Obviously not related to the 737 at all, and not even a Boeing issue really, but the headlines won’t care once they hear it’s a Boeing that the below engine is bolted to! They just can’t catch a break.

Atlas Air 748 departing Miami last night suffering an engine failure. It returned safely to Miami.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628379#Comment_121628379

My ideal short haul flight results in me sitting in an aisle seat and never unloosening the seatbelt until we touch down, ie no unavoidable trips to loo for anyone!

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121631707#Comment_121631707

Great info.

So 4 bolts with split pin should have been present and yet door escapes. This is horrific.

I'm actually hoping that the company installing the WiFi on board had that door off for some reason and that they f**ked up but with loose bolts being located in more than a few aircraft, it doesn't look good for Boeing.

Hotblack Desiato

I'm more worried now than before tbh, the wifi company aren't opening "maintenance" doors but are cutting into the fuselage crown (Aloha!)

Dazler97

I wouldn't fly on them their bogey even the max 9s or the neo 321 don't like them

John.G

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636406#Comment_121636406

Company (probably on manufacturers advise) SOPs dictated that the remaining engines power was reduced in the event of engine failure, this was changed after this accident as well as slat locking on loss of hydraulic pressure.

Storm 10

Another one not looking good for Boeing

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68052160