Boeing 737 Max

John.G

If its a Boeing, I ain't going.

https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/656760-alaska-airlines-737-900-max-loses-door-flight-out-pdx.html

Shank Williams

This is why I fly mostly Airbus Lingus now instead of the other lads who bought the rickety Boeings

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058329892/boeing-737-max

The 737 max always has problems of some sorts.

Allinall

I’ve never had a problem flying on the Max.

Once they have the exact same number of landings as take-offs, I’m happy.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058329892/boeing-737-max

It's built in America. What do you expect lol. Not exactly renowned for there build quality.

No joke do. That's not good. I would and will not fly on a Max do. No way. Not till they are at least a decade in the air with no incidents.

Bussywussy

An engineer told me from a max operator they're also having snags with the flight interlocks on their exits.

The 737 project seems to have continued beyond what makes good sense. As a man giving directions by the roadside might say “well I wouldn’t start from here”.

HTCOne

To be pedantic on whoever started that pprune thread, there is no such thing as a 737-900 MAX....there is the 737-900, which is a NG, and the 737-9, which is a MAX.

I'm sorry but my OCD is killing me here!

XsApollo

Plenty of things wrong with that plane, just google 737 max, Boeing have also asked for an exemption on some safety issue with using the anti-icing feature on the aircraft so they can get the 7 max out to customers.

if it’s used too long in certain conditions it can over heat and a piece of the cowl or engine can break away and damage the aircraft???

ForestFire

Should we really be leaving it up to the Airline companies to decide if they need the "Extra" safety exit or not?

Why is it there in the first place, and I presume by removing it adds extra seating capacity, or have they reduced capacity elsewhere, that then does not require it, e.g. extra legroom in First class?

And then when it is removed, Boeing still build the plane with the hole, and fills it in with some extra panels, and a few rivets or something.

Does this "Version" of the plane go through full testing? or its not needed?

HTCOne

Actually plugging the extra exit reduces the maximum capacity permissable of the airframe.

goingnowhere

The B737-9 MAX is designed for two uses

1. Business + economy configuration, medium haul - fewer seats - fewer exits
2. Economy only, maximum number of seats - more exits

The number, type and position of the emergency exits are a function of the number of seats. The manufacturer must demonstrate by practical test to show evacuation with 50% of available doors in under 90 seconds

All aircraft are the same structurally, the airline based on configuration enables this exit if needed

For case 1 you need fewer exits so this doorway is plugged, reduced weight and maintenance costs

For case 2 you need more exits so this doorway is active, no choice its required by FAA/EASA

The A321NEO LR has the same provisions, see the missing window 25A/F on Aer Lingus A321NEO. Thats actually the door. See Wizzair for a A321NEO with comes with the door built in.

phonypony

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578979#Comment_121578979

The airlines don't decide if the aircraft needs an emergency exit, the regulations dictate it. Removing that exit reduces the allowed number of occupants, it doesn't increase it.

That section of fuselage allows for flexibility to have the option of higher density seating (with an emergency exit door fitted) or a lower density layout (mixed class or more legroom) with the exit plugged.

helimachoptor

flying on a United 737 max from EWR to Vegas tomorrow..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578592#Comment_121578592

I will bow to your OCD, we need folk to have us on the same hymn sheet, as it were 😁

ForestFire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579175#Comment_121579175

I already hinted at that in my post, but the news articles just comment Alaska Airlines opted to not have this exit without really explaining it.

zell12

eek

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67903655

Scipri0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121580024#Comment_121580024

I was just going to post that picture myself! While the small window will still suck the person out, judging by the pictures it's a lot worse and much bigger, I thought it was just the small window, but it seems to be a decent chuck of the side as well!

zell12

a boy sitting in a row with his mother had his shirt sucked off him and out of the plane. “His mother was holding on to him,” he said. “You heard a big loud bang to the left rear. A whooshing sound and all the oxygen masks deployed instantly and everyone got those on.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/06/alaska-airlines-grounds-boeing-737-max-9-planes-after-mid-air-window-blowout

helimachoptor

will be spending a lot of time in Newark tomorrow 🤦‍♂️

phonypony

Chris Brady has uploaded a video on the mid-cabin exits, including some specifics relating to this incident

https://youtu.be/nw4eQGAmXQ0?si=K9Js2c6qqR_ieJ6B

XsApollo

How come nobody is wondering where the door / plug thing landed?

could of came crashing through some unlucky persons roof.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121580601#Comment_121580601

What makes you think that "nobody is wondering"?

appledrop

God almighty after reading that article who the hell would fly on a Boeing Max, after all the issues they have had!

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121580755#Comment_121580755

Me, it was an md80 that I feared seeing on a flight schedule.

kevinandrew

This could very easily be a Boeing quality issue on the final assembly line rather than a problem exclusive to the MAX, they have struggled in recent years on both the 737 and 787 lines.

Plugged exits is neither unique to the MAX or Boeing, other manufacturers feature similar configurations such as Airbus with the A321neo but Boeing’s recent record doesn’t help them here.

Unfortunately, because it’s such a young aircraft, it looks very likely to be an issue it was delivered with but we’ll have to wait for the preliminary investigation before knowing if the finger is really pointed at Boeing.

XsApollo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121580604#Comment_121580604

Well I haven’t seen anybody wondering, Have you?

well except myself of course.

wandererz

Made in 'Merica

banie01

I've a long history on here of banging a drum re: the collapse in Boeing's quality post McDonnell merger. My post history has plenty of my thoughts on Boeing's decline.

What was a company rooted in engineering principles, where the product mattered has over the last 25yrs suffered IMO a marked decline in quality management.

The KC-46, the AF1/747-800, the 787 and the absolutely disastrous continuing issues with the 737-Max are a millstone for the company and have cost Billions and will continue to accrue losses.

The backsliding of quality control even at suppliers is hurting Boeing, Spirit Aero systems issues from a couple of years ago as an example.

What were well controlled and impeccable supply from a quality standpoint are becoming a serious and ongoing safety issue. That Boeing's management are still grappling with these issues post MCAS and Mullenberg's 2019 resignation, points IMO to a failure of Boein's corporate culture and they still haven't managed to arrest it.

mickdw

Does the 737 max 8 have this blanked off door?

gossamerfabric

No. it is used for a 737-9 in a cabin configuration not used on the 737-8200 or 737-8.

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578118#Comment_121578118

It's almost like trying to shoehorn more seats and bigger engines into a 50 year old design isn't the best idea.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581285#Comment_121581285

But there have been many major upgrades of the 747 over the years switching to full glass cockpit and far more powerful engines etc without these kind of issues.

Boeing are just gone to ****. I've a feeling that door panel wasn't suitably secured at the factory. If that's the case, anything is possible within the manufacturing process and as such not up to a standard I'd feel safe flying on.

gossamerfabric

plug has been in use on 737-900 for a long time before 737-9 came in to existence. This is some Quality Control issue with either workmanship or parts used.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581299#Comment_121581299

Obviously it wasn't secured properly, obviously they will be checked to the extent that you can be sure it will never happen again, obviously it's a bad situation for the manufacturer but you would hope it means more quality/ safety checks all around

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121580851#Comment_121580851

I don't rely on what's posted on this forum. Unless there's evidence to the contrary, I would expect that the US NTSB is amongst the parties that are actually engaged in establishing where the missing section landed and searching for it. That's all that really matters.

Hotblack Desiato

They spent months searching in the ice in Greenland to recover parts from an A380 engine failure. Of course they're interested in recovering the ejected parts. If nobody reports it/them as falling on their property, then they'll use computer analysis to work out a search area.

XsApollo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581326#Comment_121581326

:Thumbs up

Wanderer78

surely the pressure of low cost is causing cracks here!

JohnC.

Boeing asked the FAA top exempt the Max 7 from safety rules, for a known defect, so it can start delivering planes to customers, with a known defect. The same defect is on the 8 and 9. Pilots have to remember to turn off the engine anti-ice system. There's no alert or reminder and they can forget. If they don't, the nacelle could break up and potentially penetrate the cabin or damage the tail and make the plane uncontrollable. Boeing say it's fine because it hasn't happened yet.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-wants-faa-to-exempt-max-7-from-safety-rules-to-get-it-in-the-air/

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581326#Comment_121581326

Somewhere in Alaska there was a teenaged boy waking up on a road and cycling home to find his room was hit by a falling piece of an aircraft

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581326#Comment_121581326

As far as I know they have ordered the 737 Max to stay on the ground.

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581813#Comment_121581813

Only 737-9 with plugs which by the way is not in service with European airlines and they can ferry the few planes affected home unpressurized.

EchoIndia

Icelandair and Turkish fly this variant also.

gossamerfabric

OK. I will take your word for it but Iceland is on the mid atlantic ridge and nearly all of Turkey is not in Europe so I'm reluctant to concede I am wrong.

steinbock123

I’ve three flights to book soon. Gran Canaria, France and Italy. Ryanair & Aer Lingus. I’m not a plane guy.

How am I supposed to know what plane I’ll be put on before I book , so I can avoid the Max ??

mickdw

You can guarantee not to be on one with aer lingus anyway.

Ryanair don't have max 9 but they have max 8 so according to this thread the max 8 doesn't have the door that failed on the max 9.

I wouldn't have faith in any of the 737 max at this point though cause if a door can fall off a brand new aircraft, there are significant issues within the factory.

gossamerfabric

Ryanair don't have any planes with plugged escape exits so just as safe as Aer Lingus.

geographica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581434#Comment_121581434

The NTSB have already issued details of a search area

StudentDad

I've been watching the few videos of this and what's intriguing me is that the blurb on the back of the seats, embedded into the seats is all, max 8 this and max 8 that. Yet, this plane keeps being referred to as max 9?

As regards flying, at this stage with so many faults on this thing I wouldn't trust Boeing to put enough air in the tyres.

If I have to fly in the future I'll be flying with a carrier that is Airbus. Not Boeing. Given the choice between flying Boeing or taking a boat, I'll take the boat.

geographica

So lucky this didn’t happen at cruising altitude