EV Depreciation 2023

mailforkev

Complaining about not getting the WLTP range is another nonsense. Everyone knows you don’t get what the manufacturer claims, and if you don’t know by now then it’s because of your own ignorance. It does highlight the stupid WLTP test cycle at least

I never saw the same articles about all the cars doing 40 mpg rather than the 50 the manufacturer quoted.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121507682#Comment_121507682

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt". That's such a poor article with all the usual tropes. Given what Tesla did with their prices in the first week of January and the arrival of properly priced decent quality Chinese cars, anyone who bought an EV from another manufacturer in 2023 was always at risk of paying over the odds. Because that's what's happened here. The car hasn't suffered "massive depreciation". For a short period of time, new ones were massively overpriced. And Weckler is a mug if he believes all the other shoite in that article. But I suspect he doesn't; the article is intended for the mugs, not written by one.

maddness

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509278#Comment_121509278

DoneDeal is full of overpriced cars that are not selling and your example of a Model Y is 100% right. I’ve my eye on a few M3’s and they have all dropped close to €5000 in the past week. If you want to sell your car quickly it has to be priced right.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509369#Comment_121509369

In fairness it has been well flagged for decades that ICE dont get claimed MPG in the real world and they should be taken with a pinch of salt. And that emissions figures are not as low as claimed either.

RoboRat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509278#Comment_121509278

You're basing your logic on Tesla prices which have dropped a lot, and this has caused a lot of uncertainty in the used Tesla market. The cheapest 2022 Tesla I can find on DD is €34,000 and it has 54,717km on the clock - that's a lot of mileage.

For comparison, a new MG4 64kw in grey is €34,045 from Connolly's: https://www.connollys.ie/mg/used-cars/16922434-mg-mg4-excite%20-%20long%20range%2064%20kwh/

Even if I dropped the price to €5k lower than the cost of a new one and sold it for €29k, that would be a €3,500 depreciation on what I paid - which is about 11%. A new 51kwh grey costs €30,545 (as per Connolly's website) and I think there would be a fair few who would opt for a low mileage mint condition 1-year-old with a bigger battery than spending over €1,500 more for a new 51kwh version - perhaps I'm wrong, but my logic would veer that way.

To each their own, and I'm not planning on selling mine any time soon.

Larbre34

Weckler is right.

The market is now so precarious that the solvency of a few quite large makers is in doubt in 2024.

Don't say you weren't warned.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509327#Comment_121509327

Along similar lines I was having problems with our ICE cars due to all the short journeys we do. Actually had my first breakdowns on a motorway recently, but was able to limp off the motorway. So an EV just made more sense. But paying over the odds for a large battery range in SUV sized vehicle just felt wrong, if 99% of the time I don't need it.

Red Silurian

My own experience

Bought a 3.5 year old EV for 20k, 2 years later sold it for 12k, so 4k/year depreciation

I also spent about €10 a week standard on fuel, and maybe €100 over that time on day tripping fuel so lets round to about €1100 on total fuel for that period so let's say €550 per year on fuel

Each tyre was changed twice at a cost of €75 per tyre so €600 so lets say €300 per year on tyres

That was kinda it

By comparison I bought my old car for 12k and sold it for 1k after 7 years of ownership so annually €1,500 on depreciation

I was spending €55 on diesel a week on my old car. standard so €2640 plus maybe €400 on holidaying non-standard stuff per year so €3,040 on fuel

It needed 4 new tyres a year, so again €300 on tyres

Over those 7 years there was

Timing belts - €900 - €120/year

Clutch + Flywheel - €900 - €120/year

7 injectors - €100 each - €100/year

The Exhaust Gas Recirc valve had to be remapped - €900 - €120/year

Went through 3 exhausts - €70 each - €30/year

Servicing twice a year at €300 each time- €600/year

Tax difference was €215/year

So total cost per year of the leaf - €4850

Total cost of the diesel - €6145

Not much but 2 things to bear in mind. Diesel was about €1.30/L when I was spending €55/week and the upgrade from a 12 year old car to a 3.5 year one resulted in much nicer driving experiences

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509634#Comment_121509634

Who do you have in mind?

I can see some of the legacy manufacturers going under or being bought out in the next 5 to 10 years but in 2024?

liamog

Mod Note: If you want to discuss the impact of Elon Musk on Tesla there is a thread for that, otherwise stick to the topic of depreciation of EVs in Ireland.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509954#Comment_121509954

Of course, the car company founded by literal nazis is fine though

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509981#Comment_121509981

Ford?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLjr3dzOUpQ

Flinty997

I'm a sucker for nice interior and BUTTONS that click.

The whole spartan, look with iPad for all controls really doesn't appeal to me. Especially if the software and touch controls are sub par. I dislike feeling I'm driving my mobile phone. I struggle with the whole concept of having to pay a lot more for an experience I don't like.

Casati

High deprecation is not a given on all cars, fyi Im looking at less than 20% deprecation on a VW suv after 2 years, and 25% on a 202 Skoda estate. The day you buy is the day you sell. Adrian had expected similar percentage depreciation on the ID3 but he’s seen approx 40% over two years.

The unique market saw high demand and limited supply especially from 2021 to 2022, which pushed used prices artificially high - Model 3’s were selling well above list. In order to capitalise on this manufacturers stopped all discounts and increased list prices which made new cars artificially high - eg Tesla, ID’s and Ioniq 5’s, Enyaq’s

Now that we have seen big price adjustments downwards for Tesla, ID’s and Cupra to levels that are v competitive versus petrol/ diesels, I think these cars will hold their value well going forward. Some EV’s are still over priced massively and until you see a price correction, deprecation is going to be killer on them eg e-Tron’s, Ioniq 5’s, Kia’s, Mustangs. BYD are mad money here versus Chinese prices - ie they are way cheaper than the Model 3 in China but dearer here so likely a lot of room for price cuts and high depreciation for early adopters.

Higb demand and under supply has also been an issue for some diesels - and it’s led to massive price increases eg (Mercedes C class). These cars are also seeing v high deprecation so it’s not a unique EV thing

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510057#Comment_121510057

Not many EV’s nowadays below €80-€100k have that old fashioned proper nice interior. They are all fake leather now, recycled materials. Even the €90k i5 is plastic.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510067#Comment_121510067

I've a friend who bought a 2015 Hyundai IX35 diesel for 15k, Diesels seem to be holding their value at the moment but is it really worth it?

MarkN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509369#Comment_121509369

It's not as simple as that. The variables are far greater at times in EVs. A 1000km range diesel car doesn't give you 500kms because it's cold.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509044#Comment_121509044

I dont disagree with you that EVs suit the majority of people who have own driveway. However, I dont agree with a cant beat em join em response to anti EV people view on the non suitability of EVs to the majority of drivers - what proportion of ICE drivers spend hours every month filling up at fuel stations?

djan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509369#Comment_121509369

I think this issue is much worse with EVs due to the nature of longer distance travel. When doing long distance, most of the time will be spent at 100-120km/h roads where your standard 2l diesel will go 800-1200km on a tank which is often well in line with manufacturer quoted consumptions. With an EV at these speeds, range is impacted to a much higher degree.

On an unrelated note but back on topic, I wonder if going ahead EVs will suffer higher rates of depreciation. This being due to them loosing range and battery tech developing rapidly. ICE cars have had relatively little changes in efficiency over the past 10 years but look how far we've come from the likes of 1st gen Leaf.

MarkN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510067#Comment_121510067

Are you basing those depreciation figures on a trade in quote?

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510218#Comment_121510218

was going to ask the same, doubtful....

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510213#Comment_121510213

do the majority of drivers not have their own driveway?

Mr Q

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510211#Comment_121510211

An EV won't drop 50% of it's range because it is cold. The range will reduce but no where near as much as that.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510261#Comment_121510261

That wasn't my point though . I fully agree that EVs suit the majority of people with own driveway. Probably could say the vast majority tbh. The only real exception at the moment IMO are those who tow, need 7 seaters and those who cant afford to shell out for a decent range EV. The latter issue is diminishing now as more reasonablly priced used EVs come on stream

mailforkev

A simple Google will bring me to the EV database website where I’ll find a real world set of figures for pretty much any car. The problem is that people take the salesman’s word rather than putting in 10 mins of effort. Or they listen to the lad in the pub.

And the test cycle isn’t good enough, as I said above. The US cycle is significantly more accurate (i.e. lower ranges).

I’ve two EVs in the driveway, my Honda has only around 30 kWh useable, so trust me, I know all about the range limitations of an EV in the winter with heating on, etc. I’d still never go back.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510214#Comment_121510214

Our experience differs slightly. Although diesels have longer range so things are less noticeable, the discrepancy between claimed and real world is just as stark. Our last diesel was advertised at 4.1l/100 km at high speed. The only time I ever saw that was on the way down from Ticknock to the coast. The rest of the time we'd get 5.2 at best (79% of claimed) and in the summer with aircon on, 5.3/5.4.

Our EV has a WLTP of 533km and at 120kph 3 seasons of the year, we get exactly 400km of range, 75% of claimed.

djan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510425#Comment_121510425

Fair enough, but similarly over the many cars I've driven my experience was that consumptions was within 10% of claimed consumption at 100km/h ish speeds in the vast majority of cars. Bear in mind the cars would have been usually with just myself and an empty boot which can also have an impact. Regardless of our experiences it boils down to EVs being most efficient at 20-30km/h and ICE at 80-90 km/h add to that heating of cabin (especially without heat pump) and there being little to no regen potential in motorway driving.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510197#Comment_121510197

Did he shop around. They are going for as little as€5,700?

liamog

Mod Note: The continued posts on whether someone will buy a particular model based on current or past ownership have been move to the Musk Tesla thread. Any further discussion of this vein on this thread may result in a thread ban for ignoring the earlier mod note

Grumpypants

The last time I read an AW article it was on the battery range and how manufacturers should be more honest. Because he had driven on the motorway from X to Y and not gotten the listed range.

But we know the listed range is based on a variety of driving including city driving. Not a how far can you go on the motorway test. No one buys a petrol car that does 40mpg and complains that after a motorway drive at 120kmph they only got 30mpg. They understand if you go faster you use more fuel.

As for the depreciation I changed after 15 months a 222 MG ZS for a 232 MGZS. I tried BYD and Tesla, neither of which take in trade-ins but rather sell to the trade. They were offering what I was getting from the "we buy any car" sites. Around the €22 mark.

But MG on the other hand gave me €35K. I had bought it for €36.5K the year before so only losing 1500 was good.

On the other side, the new car had jumped to €42,750. So we landed on my car + €6K. (Also it had a sunroof. MG have stopped adding the sunroof to the new ones so was happy to get one of the last ones of those)

So if you go back to the same brand dealer (that has a used market) you will do okay I feel. If you want to change to another brand then you are likely to see a big drop off as they are worried about the used market at the moment.

I got chatting to one dealer and he just said things went mad for a few years with prices of used cars being more expensive than new cars due to the backlog. But now supply has caught up everyone is overly careful and over-correcting, he expected it to balance out a bit over the next 1-2 years again.