EV Depreciation 2023

Buddy Bubs

As per title, just interested now that a lot of 2020 and 2021 EVs are at or nearing end of PCPs or owners just fancy a change....what level of depreciation have you suffered?

My own experience is that my cupra born at 42k wasn't even wanted by a Kia dealer against a new ev6 so we offloaded a 171 530e bought in 2020 with very small depreciation. But other owners of a 2022 born have been offered 23.5k which is the best part of a 20k loss in 2 years so I guess I have too, I'd put my figure at 18k in 2 years of I was to change now. My car has taken a price cut though making depreciation figure high but cost to change like for like would be less at about 12/13k now.

Keeping it in the family, my father's 2022 Etron at 85k could easily be picked up for 50k now so I can't see a dealer offering more than 45 so he has had 40k of a loss in 2 years, it's discontinued now in favour of q8 Etron if that is seen as a completely new model.

What are other people's experiences?

kippy

18k loss in two years........

Christ ive never spent close to 18 K on any car, that's an eye watering amount of money.

Edit, just see a 40k loss in two years. That's astounding. I don't earn 40k net in the year. To write off my annual salary in a paper loss would be very very difficult to fathom.

Is this rate normal with new cars or just this model?

Is it because tech is improving so fast in newer cars or some other reason?

helimachoptor

This is what my wife got for the ID3, a couple of days ago, moving to an Id4. We didn’t put any upfront payment on the Id3 when we bought it.

IMG_8535.jpeg

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505145#Comment_121505145

Yeah the most I ever spent before that was 22k on the A6 which I kept for 4 years and sold for 17.5k in 2022 so only about a thousand a year but that was in the mad days the used market went nuts.

The 18k on the born is a huge drop for me but not selling it now because of that.

The 40k on the Etron is definitely only a paper loss too my father bought it for his retirement after years of driving vans and work vehicles he bought something nice with the pension lump sum, he will never sell that. No way he would crystallise that loss.

But there's loads of PCP will have to make a decision

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505145#Comment_121505145

Normal for any high end car in my opinion.

50% after 3 years should be about normal. Omitting special stuff of course.

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505224#Comment_121505224

That rule of thumb is pretty good alright.

Padre_Pio

People bought for crazy prices over the past few years and now we're back to reality

Bobson Dugnutt

Adrian Weckler has an article in the Sindo today about his experience as an EV owner (ID.3). The enormous depreciation, mythical battery range, some issue he has where the entire car shuts down on the motorway, lack of charging infrastructure. It’s sobering enough to be honest.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505316#Comment_121505316

I'd agree with him on depreciation, the rest of EV ownership has been great for me. The article is behind paywall I only could read the start

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505173#Comment_121505173

Used prices have been crazy for a number of years. We've an old second car and it's lost very little in 6 yrs. That's Brexit and Lockdown. That is not normal.

High price of EVs is not normal either. What ever issues already existed in the market. Tesla have depressed the EV market it into a price war trying to maintain market share against the Chinese companies.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/18/23919336/tesla-q3-2023-earnings-revenue-profit-margin

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505316#Comment_121505316

Didn't read it cause of the paywall but

1. It is completely normal for a new car to lose 25% of its value in the first year and it always has been regardless of the 'engine' type

2. Cars break down. Especially new models in their first few years. This is what warranties are for. As models and technologies mature, they get more reliable but almost every model has at least some recalls against their name, at least BEV updates can often be done OTA without inconvenient trips to the main dealer.

3. The public charging infrastructure is still very poor, Ennis Co. Clare, for example, is the largest town in Munster and has a single public fast charger.

The government definitely have dropped the ball on this, For most people who charge at home most of the time this doesn't matter too much, but people want to be able to use their cars for social not just commuting purposes.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505316#Comment_121505316

He tends to be anti EV in general and pretty dramatic based on what I’ve read.

Depreciation affects ICE too. I’m waiting for one of the RS6’s to drop on DoneDeal. They are currently €207k.

They will be €100k cars in 2 years max.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505349#Comment_121505349

3. The public charging infrastructure is still very poor, Enniskillen so, for example, is the largest town in Munster and has a single public fast charger

I'm a bit lost as to what you mean here. Enniskillen is in Fermanagh, which is in Ulster. Perhaps you meant Ennis, Co Clare though, but it's far from being the largest town in Munster.

Bobson Dugnutt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505358#Comment_121505358

He’s not anti-EV at all. He owns one, advocates for them, and his article states overall he is happy with his purchase. It’s also realistic and he points out that the fall in the value of his car is way worse than the equivalent ICE vehicle.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505366#Comment_121505366

Oops, stupid Autocorrect went mad there. I meant Ennis in Clare which claims to be the biggest town in Munster

https://www.ennischamber.ie/ennis-retains-its-place-as-largest-town-in-munster/

Flinty997

People have short memories. I think people are forgetting the problems we had with the shift to diesel with dpf, EGR valves, clutches, turbos, flywheels. That's before you get into the degradation of air quality in cities. I'm sure some will say they've done 500k and not changed a light bulb but that's not the case for a lot of people. Lots of poorly reliability in modern ICE cars.

Also VW has had all sorts of problems with it's ID range. Lots of questionable decisions from them. Perhaps too many changes all at once. That said there's more right than wrong with ID range.

That said diesel isn't right for everyone. Same with EV.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505371#Comment_121505371

Genuine question, I don’t really do depreciation as i dabble in buying and selling but what’s a comparable car, a Golf?

A 2021 Golf 2.0 TDi is €21k in a dealers now. How much was that new?

How much was an ID3 new?

How much is a 2021 ID3 now?

I would tend to think they are following the normal depreciation curve 🤷

He’s dramatic. He bought an ID3 in 2023. Now he’s crying because of the value he’s lost. Every new car suffers this loss in the first year, add to that the recent cost reductions by VW has hit his perceived value significantly unfortunately.

Akrasia

There is a lot of disingenuous argument from the anti EV crowd

First it was 'nobody will buy BEVs because they're too overpriced'

When the prices fall it suddenly becomes' You shouldn't buy a BEV because they depreciate too fast'

Very few of the people saying new BEVs were overpriced are now advocating buying a used BEV now that they're come down so much. It's almost like they had some other kind of agenda

Gumbo

heres a whirlwind of adventure 😁

I bought this car in July 2021 for €48k. I sold a MS to buy this (making a healthy profit).

I then traded the car into Tesla who gave me €57,609. That was March 2022. Now it’s up for €30k in Tipp.

They’ve removed the 21” wheels for some reason. This car was used as a ranger car after I traded it in!

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/35869048

🔥 2016 Tesla Model S P90D 🔥

Some car though. Ludicrous mode with launch control for this car to 60 in 2.6 seconds!

Unfortunately it will have had its free supercharging for life and free connectives removed 🥲

Andrew76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505450#Comment_121505450

The car doesn’t look near as nice now compared to your pic. Did yours have some sort of black pack on it? Rear badge, door handles, trim around the windows all changed from black to chrome and the tiny wheels as you mention.

liamog

The rule of thumb I always followed for new cars was to expect 40-60% of the original price after 3 years. We've had a bit of a honeymoon period where due to market shortages used EVs were maintaining very high values, at the time there were many articles decrying the lack of affordable used EVs on the market and it was a sign that the move to electrification was just for rich people. New prices crept up as manufacturers wanted to capture some of the value.

When you add the Tesla price drop to the current economic conditions, we've seen the prices of new models drop. The ID.3 from the article is getting a facelift and has dropped in the price, the facelift 58kWh is €37,112. This time last year I seem to remember they were around 42k. Facelifts always cause a bit of extra depreciation in the older models.

Putting that all together it's not surprising that some people are going to get stung. We're a long way past the days where I bought an Ioniq for 26k used it for 5 years and it was traded in for 18k (30% depreciation)

TheGreatUnkown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505316#Comment_121505316

What sort of battery range was he getting from the ID.3?

A friend of mine has one as a company car and has had lots of issues with it in relation to charging. Sometimes it will and sometimes it won't. He also mentioned the range in cold weather was very poor. I asked him if he'd buy one with his own money and he said not a chance.

I think in relation to the depreciation part, this technology is evolving rapidly, so heavy depreciation will be a consequence of this.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505483#Comment_121505483

Yes. I dechromed it. But Tesla removed it when they took it 🥲

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505577#Comment_121505577

That was always on the cards, I always advised people to buy on a pcp or something that leaves the residual value risk with the OEM

McGrath5

Interesting times, keeping an eye on ID 3 prices and there is a noticeable drop lately. Tempting to make the move to an EV in 2024 from a ICE.

_ptashek_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505145#Comment_121505145

My own experience would suggest that an 8% to 15% average annual deprecation rate is to be expected with new ICE cars, and depends on many factors like make / model popularity, reliability and market opinion. Wouldn't expect much of a difference with EVs.

maddness

The car market has been massively over inflated the past few years mostly due to Covid and Brexit. That’s changing and values of all cars are coming down and EV’s are no different. However, EV values have tanked in the UK and what happens there tends to follow here to some extent even if it is not on the same scale. Values are dropping here and will continue to do so but but that’s a much to do with Tesla price cuts and the likes of BYD coming in with very desirable offerings too. The whole car market is in a funny place and pricing any car is difficult now. There are a lot of people with massively overpriced petrol and diesel cars advertised and not selling too.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121507448#Comment_121507448

Yeah, I would say a lot of EV early adopters are going to be massively out of pocket considering the price cuts brought in by manufacturers over the past year.

That said, I'm sure most have done their sums and are saving compared to running an ICE, but still it may be a bitter pill when it comes to trade in values.

zg3409

Even those on PCP with guaranteed prices on trade in say 3 years later are complaining the next PCP deal will cost them more what with interest rates, some price rises, higher baked in depreciation etc.

Mostly it's supply and demand and supply has improved and filled the demand with oversupply on the used market for some models. If buying used make sure you haggle a good deal or walk away. That protects you from future depreciation. Anyone thinking buying a new Tesla even for 40k is a bargain and not going to depreciate is going to learn the hard way.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121507433#Comment_121507433

Did you even watch the video. Seems like the dealership and insurance company wrote off the car without actually checking was the battery damaged, or going back to the head office to negotiate replacement.

The cost to owner was only the loss of insurance no claims and that was because they accepted the dealer and insurance at face value.

That really isn't about EVs but right to repair and supply chains. I remember when it was impossible to get the unusual tyres that the Cinquecento Sporting used. Eventually batteries will be a repairable.

https://youtu.be/T7Q0nNkQTCo?si=sfoldXoiTybUiezr

https://youtu.be/C4nS_tSQiVQ?si=xPTanQUebUy05KaE

One problem for companies doing this is they can't source used batteries for parts. As the failure rate has been much lower than expected.

v10

Adrian Weckler article for anyone that wants to read it