Have we lost our Patriotism?

WrenBoy

Funny how those who never have a good word to say about the country and the Irish in general are the ones in here telling others what is and isn't the right kind of patriotism.

duck.duck.go

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486270#Comment_121486270

I think the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum will take serious offence to “arbitrary lines on map” comment while continuing to wave the Irish flag and campaign against defending this country (and hence ironically leave it to the Brits)

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486236#Comment_121486236

The poor state of our defence forces is an embarrassment to the country, I'd be far more willing to pay taxes to improve our defence forces that some of the stuff my taxes have been wasted on over the years.

duck.duck.go

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486507#Comment_121486507

So will I, but the “patriots” who wrap themselves up in the flag spend decades campaigning against defence spending and fear mongering about conscription into some “EU army” all while continuing to rely on Brits to defend us

PeaSea

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486404#Comment_121486404

Well to be fair as an island Ireland's border does kind of pick itself, I'm thinking more of mainland Europe for starters. For example Alsace being French and not German is an accident of history and arbitrariness. People living in Alsace have more in common with those living in Germany than those living in Pays Basque, who in turn have more in common with Basques living in Spain. Yet they are both within the borders of France. Arbitrary.

chuchuchu

Men having less T year by year

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486507#Comment_121486507

Wasting taxpayers money on loads of things is what Ireland does better than any other country

SEPT 23 1989

People who never dreamed of being nationalists and wrapping themselves in the flag 20 years ago and now finding themselves in this position

amazing to see the ones who claimed that flag at that time turning their back on their own people

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121479877#Comment_121479877

At the same time you had generations of children being physically and sexually abused by priests, babies taken from mothers, mass graves of children, so many women stuck in abusive relationships with nowhere to turn, repressed homsexuality, mass emigration, unemployment, widespread alcoholism...

This is the ireland the patriots pine for, I'll take the modern ireland with the odd foreign nutjob thanks.

Donald Trump

I thought I accidentally lost mine once. Found it in the lining of my coat though. Had a small hole in my pocket.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486404#Comment_121486404

Border in Shinners head:

Border to most other people:

I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct

Patriotism in ireland is for the man-child. They fill a hole in their development with crap like patriotism and conspiracy theories as compensation. Awful lot of man-children in Ireland on social media these days. Boring boring people.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486294#Comment_121486294

There is Defford something gone that made Ireland what it was

The poverty that made Ireland a shithole or the Catholic Church that made Ireland a cesspit? Either way, good riddance to both.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490194#Comment_121490194

The people who pretend that the past was nothing but negative aren't much better than those who think that it was nothing but positive. It's an incredibly simplistic way to look at thing, yet very convenient all the same I suppose.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489278#Comment_121489278

I think posts like this are a bit problematic in terms of how biased they are. Let's list everything bad about the past, brush off one bad thing about the present, and call that a reasonable comparison.

No mention of widespread drug use, mass immigration driving an unsustainable society (through increased consumption, carbon generation, and building over more land rather than re-wilding) and threatening to drown out our own culture, people stuck in their parents' homes unable to move out and live their own life (and a similar problem when it comes to affording to start a family), pre-teens being sent abroad to be given puberty blockers (often by an organisation which has since been shut down for incredibly concerning practices in that area - there's a scandal brewing there that'll match the Magdalene Laundries), increased obesity and the increasing prevalence of shite food (often forcefully marketed at kids), mobile phone addiction, the prevalence of "I'm offended" as a rational argument, and so on.

This is the Ireland people like you support. Often these posts are tinged with a strange self-loathing too.

What your post fails to contemplate is that as a society, we had a change to address the issues you raise (and they're relevant, and mostly actually resolved now), yet we've just replaced them with worse issues. And you don't attempt to find positives from the past - a greater sense of community, a more sustainable way of living, a more equal society (because now we utilise poor foreigners to push down wages on low-skilled jobs, and force them back towards the tenement ways of living we had been leaving behind), arguably even a society more at ease with itself, for all its problems.

Which is correct? A mix of both I'd guess. But in your attempts to blindly dismiss everything about the past as bad, you override any attempt at a rational discussion on the issues. Which ultimately, I guess, is what the thread is about.

You need to do better.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490820#Comment_121490820

didn't dismiss anything, i just noted how bad some things were before we had immigration here, as some people romanticise it. generally wellbeing is a lot better here for all, and that's a good thing, regardless of the odd foreign person committing a crime.

cdeb

I think you did dismiss it tbh - your post seemed clear enough. Past bad - present fine. Nothing really beyond that.

Is general well-being a lot better for all now? With drug use, huge debts, a lack of housing, a loss of culture and identity, huge issues coming very quickly down the line in terms of climate and sustainability (that immigration - and indeed our own emigration - is contributing towards)?

Your posts - a bit like acd's - seem a bit shallow in that regard.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491449#Comment_121491449

what culture and identity have we lost? my dad is 74 but i doubt either of us identify that differently, just 2 blokes from dublin

duck.duck.go

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491449#Comment_121491449

Be careful falling into the media fueled perpetual sense of “crisis” this and “crisis” that

you don’t even have to go back to 80s to see positive change, just compare now to post Great Recession Ireland where everything went wrong for majority of the population

Tony EH

A man, long ago, once wisely mentioned something very astute about "patriotism", "refuge" and "scoundrels".

He even wrote a dictionary.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491513#Comment_121491513

every era has problems for sure, i for one am glad i'm not back in the ireland of the church dominated kip with no opportunities that everyone wanted to leave.

myself and everyone i know in ireland are having good lives, make the most of it folks.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491518#Comment_121491518

As we know for your posting history, you're in the "set for life" camp. And by your words most of your nearest are too. At least half of the nation aren't in your position, and wouldn't agree with your words, but what does that matter once you and yours and fine?

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491518#Comment_121491518

I've a feeling you don't know any of these people

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1734953071728365755

Esho

The age of political and national patriotism is over in Europe. We are living in a globalised world now.

We can have pride and cheer for our national teams, and show and have pride in our national character - friendliness, great community spirit, generosity to charity etc that's about the extent of it.

That said, Ukraine, Israel and Turkey are very patriotic, don't know about other Eurovision countries.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491578#Comment_121491578

Those likely to fall into homelessness in Ireland up to the 90's were likely to be shipped of to England on the first occasion they had a run in with the guards. We either exported our "problems" or hid them in institutions

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491560#Comment_121491560

All you seem to do is bitch and moan about immigrants all day though, no wonder you see no good in this country. Try and be more glass half full like monk here x.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491681#Comment_121491681

That is the issue with a lot of people here. They see all of the political problems and blame all of it on immigration when the reality is immigration is actually not to blame for all the issues - it is successive Governments lack of planning and investment in a range of public services.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491490#Comment_121491490

Culture is more than just you and your dad though. Culture is a much wider fabric.

If you and your dad moved to Iran, say, you mayn't be any less Irish, but the culture you lived in certainly would be.

Pubs are closing, accents and mannerisms are becoming more uniform, increasingly people are losing common background which often brought them together (Italia 90 being one of the best examples - the country will never be brought together like that again). As Ireland becomes less Irish, inevitably more Irish culture will be lost - probably songs and music, the GAA and so on.

If you don't think culture is getting lost, you can read something like Patrick Leigh Dermot's trilogy of his 1933 walk across Europe to see just how much culture we've lost in that time.

Peter Sutherland - who actively encouraged mass migration of course - even said that we need to forget the idea of national identity and culture. Is that really what we want?

He didn't give a flying **** about sustainability or carbon or anything like that though. So his views really needs to be pilloried rather than followed

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491712#Comment_121491712

Here's another poster coming along with the simplistic line of "immigration good; we just haven't built enough houses"

This is going slightly off topic I acknowledge, but do you want to tell me where you see sustainability in our current rush to keep perpetually increasing our population?

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491712#Comment_121491712

Yes, yes, they should have clearly planned for 150 to 200,000 people if they planned to import them against the wishes of the people they supposedly represent, - ya know like maybe the Irish people.

A referendum on that anti-Irish plan would have been in order..