If Metrolink was scrapped, what are the alternatives?

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398442#Comment_121398442

Charlemont Green Luas, Tara St Dart and train, O'Connell Street Luas, Glasnevin Dart and Train.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398442#Comment_121398442

The answers to all your questions are readily available and the ease with which they are found make it look like you have no idea what you are talking about.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398468#Comment_121398468

Plus once complete, it will almost certainly be extended North to integrate with the Northern Dart line and the Finglas Luas will likely be extended to Dardistown and would be the beginning of Metro West.

Metrolink is absolutely key to integrating most of Dublins different lines and services to create a proper integrated network.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399259#Comment_121399259

Yeah it's a no brainer to connect it with the train line at Donabate.

Beta Ray Bill

By comparison Dublin is far more straight forward, see the Dublin Port Tunnel.

Dublin port tunnel was the first sign our water infra might not be all it's cracked up to be (No pun intended). I had a few mates working in it (electricians) and they said the water leaks were crazy. For a while they couldn't figure out where the water was coming from.

I take you're point though, each project presents different challenges, in our case it's going to be gradient, water and planning (I would guess)

I am far from an expert on such things, but I presume there is a reason almost nowhere in Europe does transport this way?

Correct. But Dublin is very different from most EU cities. In most EU cities, people are living in apartments. In Dublin it's houses. (Specifically 3-Bed Semi-D's). This creates a problem with the economics of scale. Obviously we would like to look to see what the EU is doing and try and copy the bits that work but that doesn't mean things that work there will work here.

A better example of would be one of the satellite cities around Tokyo that have a similar setup to Dublin (Hilly, high density housing but not apartments, Large amount of people moving about for their daily commute)

Look at Funabashi for example:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/JvvSnm1WDNQZvS296

Similar size, similar Density, Similar layout (Port City), most of the population living in houses and it's hilly.

There are no subways there, (I don't think). It's all elevated rail, or rail in the process of being upgraded to elevated rail)

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399642#Comment_121399642

I've heard rumours that some prospector in the know that's more than friendly with a few political parties has already bought all or most of the fields between Swords and Donabate in the hope of holding the government over a barrel when it comes to CPO time.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399830#Comment_121399830

I don’t think it works that way. Especially with open fields.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399925#Comment_121399925

I hope you're right.

It's already been rezoned as Metro Economic Corridor

https://fingalcoco.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=668801631a4745e997c6ccf2cf1cfa51

The Person that allegedly bought it did so when it was still classed as Green Belt 🙄

Cronyism... love it!

ArcadiaJunction

The interchange at Glasnevin should be built anyway. That would be useful to start with.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399998#Comment_121399998

It does not work that way. You cannot buy land speculatively to hope to play hardball with government on CPOs.

Hint: Its not a voluntary purchase order

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399998#Comment_121399998

If they extended the Metro through those green fields to Donabate, it would be a lovely place to live.

30 minutes from town, overlooking the bay. Best of everything really.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400177#Comment_121400177

100%

But it is already serviced by rail and the DART will be extended out that way soon.

Linking the two up is a no brainer as it's just fields between them. But need to be done before someone comes along and backs in as many 4 and 3 bed semi-D's as they can.

Like now is the time to do that stuff before all the buildings block any potential route.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400196#Comment_121400196

I think they're aware of that.

Like the land kept for the Eastern Bypass in South Dublin.

You can see it on Google maps from Monkstown to Goatstown.

Prime land that's kept from development.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400196#Comment_121400196

The Dart+ North project will increase frequency in a few years hopefully.

If they extended the Metro to Donabate, then you'd have a sort of Circle line from Tara St to the airport, to Swords, to Donabate, then back down through Malahide into town.

The more interconnectivity, the better.

So people from Malahide going to the airport can loop around counter clockwise.

Someone from Ballymun could commute to Drogheda or vice versa.

Someone in Clongriffin could commute to Swords.

Loads of other examples but you get the idea.

It's such a no brainer, I assume they're planning for it.

Just get the first line through planning and start construction and then plan for extensions and other lines.

I'm hoping they could also open the Metro line partially before it's completed fully - from O'Connell Street to the Airport for example.

Could they open it a few years before the rest is complete?

I'm not an engineer so maybe it's not possible.

spacetweek

Since OCS-Airport will be almost entirely underground, it’s unlikely that could open first.

Swords-Airport is easier to build and a lot of people who work in the airport live in swords so that would be the better option for an initial operating section. It should be possible to open Swords-Airport 1-2 years before full opening in 2035 (I still don’t find that date believable, I think it will be sooner).

spacetweek

Look at Funabashi for example:

Wow, that is the highest density single family homes I’ve ever seen. They managed to provide almost no roads at all here!

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400507#Comment_121400507

Surely, what can be opened first will depend on that part of the finished route being accessible from the depot?

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400507#Comment_121400507

The OCS to Airport section will be the busiest section so that's why I'd like it open early.

Well maybe Charlemont to OCS will be busiest but it already has a Luas and the Charlemont part looks tricky.

But I'm not an engineer so haven't a clue what's possible in terms of opening early. I think it's something they should consider. It would be a real feel good story. I'd ride it just for fun.

I've heard other people say they could open 7 years after construction begins, so if it started in 2025, it could open 2032.

Idbatterim

If they could open it to OCS, sure then you have multiple green line stops in the immediate vicinity, sure the current plan is that you're going to have to change at Charlemont anyway, if you want to go further south or north, another total farce..

spacetweek

Not a farce at all. It’s a stroke of genius. The slowest part of Luas green line is Grangegorman to Charlemont. By ending at charlemont, metrolink bypasses the whole slow section, getting you to the start of the fast section. So you go on fast metrolink, alight and get on fast Luas.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402104#Comment_121402104

Is there any argument to be made for pulling up the Luas tracks between OCS and Charlemont.

The Metro covers the same route.

The Luas gets in the way of buses and blocks the Quays.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398501#Comment_121398501

I know what I’m talking about alright ….. I’m here for a civilized discussion…. I’ve experienced some of the best metro properly integrated with suburban rail and trams, all efficient, integrated and reliable…. Numerous countries, Including having lived and worked in Paris for a time and relied on their metro & RER to get me to work and back daily and to all other trips around the city..… so I’d suggest I know a little more then your snarky reply wants you to believe.

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402104#Comment_121402104

I Agree, my point was, its a joke that as per current plans, that you will have to change from a metro to luas to go further south than Charlemont. Upgrade the green line to metro

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402163#Comment_121402163

If you are aware of the level of integration, then why ask questions in bad faith.

It "barely integrates with itself" is nonsensical, but even taken at what I assume is your meaning of poor integration then you are incorrect. It connects directly with LUAS, DART and Rail and via the Red Line it connects with every intercity rail line.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402230#Comment_121402230

They will upgrade the green line to metro eventually. There are various logistical and political elements that weren't worth waiting to solve to get the rest of it moving.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402266#Comment_121402266

At how many points does it integrate ? “ barely “ was the word I used, I never said it didn’t. My comparison is based on various other systems I’ve used across the continent.

im not asking questions in bad faith, you on the other hand by suggesting so are being accusatory and disingenuous in bad faith, im just here for a civilised discussion….if you disagree, or think I’m wrong, want to debate chat about it ? Grand….I’m open to that… Why not do that instead of the personal attack ?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402403#Comment_121402403

You are complaining about the lack of integration of a line that allows connections to every single light and heavy rail line in Dublin.

What exactly is it you think should be done differently?

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402473#Comment_121402473

Including all of the Busconnects spines and each Northside orbital

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402403#Comment_121402403

You really don't have a leg to stand on here. Via Dart+ West and Dart+ SW, the airport and Swords will have direct connection to all of West Dublin, Meath, Kildare and Laois commuter services. Not to forget all the intermediary stations on Dart W and SW and Dart Coastal at Tara.

The Luas Red integration at OCS is v.poor, no question, but trams will become secondary once the full Dart network and Metro are up and running.

Sunjava

Connectivity is key, there is no alternative to a metro being built.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400177#Comment_121400177

is that under a flight path?