Rugby world cup post mortem

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121244875#Comment_121244875

We were on a 17 game winning streak, grand slam champions, clean sweep of the pool stage, essentially playing at home and the bookies were only giving us a point or two. They clearly thought we had been playing above the sum of our parts and NZ were playing below their ability. The VM team are ex Ireland players and an Aussie who lived and worked here for decades. They are talking about their mates, of course their opinions are coloured. Man for man that Kiwi team is better than ours.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245048#Comment_121245048

He went to France and was a success, he was offered a massive long term contract to stay with Racing and he rejected it, once he did that the French press went after him and still do to this day.

Zebo left France because of the new JIFF rules meant restricted number of players and he wasn't one of the big names. ROG said this on a podcast and because the rest of the French league was reducing oversea players he was let go, his age etc didn't help.

If the IRFU changed the rules tomorrow the French clubs would be all over Irish players, they haven't bothered anymore because they know players won't move to France.

The irish clubs get to the top of Europe every season with Qtr/semi appearances.

Not sure why you would say Sexton was above criticism? he get the most discussion and headlines of all players in Ireland. A lot of them about is about how terrible he is etc etc.

Sexton has retired, no need to slag him off

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245225#Comment_121245225

Nor did getting rid of him 4 years ago happen. Both of us are discussing 'what ifs'.

Whitelock did not release in the last phase. Barnes ignored that, pinged us and ended the game. He also ignored other infringements in that last phase in which I felt Sexton was marshalling them to win a penalty, favouring us in a lineout maul close to the line. Maybe Barnes and Sexton's history with one another was the reason Barnes arm never went out in that 30+ phases.

May not have been his intention but the lack of setting up line breaks as we routinely do leads me to think that was the play, just as the final play against France a few years ago (that this reminded me off) was to set up the match winning drop at goal.

Had it worked we'd be in a different place but such is sport.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121244913#Comment_121244913

It wasn't a score we lost by, I see a lot of misinformed folk saying the same thing this morning.

We needed a try to win

A score suggests a penalty or drop goal wins it if you can work the ball to the position but that wasn't the case.

France lost by a score.

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245205#Comment_121245205

Well that’s just plain wrong. You can’t have a rule applying to players where they are outcast for taking a contract in France if it’s not applied across the board.

Zebo was a good player by the way and a very good option.

Sexton got carte Blanche to do what he liked back then and years later he was still there as first pick out half at the old age of 38 and past his best. It says it all and they paid the price for it last Saturday night.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121244666#Comment_121244666

Jack Crowley is only starting for Munster since the new year and is only 23. The big thing that has slowed down his progress is the belief that Carberry would come good, not Sexton starting for Ireland. Crowley has shown he has the bottle and the ability. Should be given the chance to deliver in the 6 nations. Prendergast should also be in the squad and starting for Lienster at least in the URC.

O'Connell definitely needs to look at the line out but he is the same coach that had us as the best line out. I feel that teams we able to unsettle there through closing the gap and refs not enforcing it. Once they saw the trend it should have been highlighted in every ref meeting, and Johnny should have been in Barnes ear about it form the first lineout. A third lineout option to replace O'Mahony will be key in the next cycle - Baird at 6? Prendergast? Especially as Joe McCarthy is a big unit and may not be the easiest lift, however looks the best option to come in to the 2nd row in the long term. Especially with the likes of Ahern being blocked at Munster by Snyman and Klyen (as an aside - surely Klyens contract at Munster was based on him being IQ). Having 2 of the four best SA locks blocking young Irish players coming though is not a god position to be in.

At TH prop - I feel Furlong was being patched together to get to the world cup. He should be allowed get an extended break to get himself right so would not write him off just yet. Big year for O'Toole is needed I feel though.

On Porters side - I feel NZ were aware of the perception that he can be illegal at times and played Barnes on this. Porter does tend to angle in before straightening so they just painted the picture to make it look as bad as possible by following around themselves preventing him from getting straight. A bit of focus on square and straight fir the winter needed I feel.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245282#Comment_121245282

A try is a score. We were down by 4, a try gives you 5 points.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121244302#Comment_121244302

Farrell should find someone to give him a good slap

Mod: Cop on.

mascher8933

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245284#Comment_121245284

OK we get it, its obvious you have a strong dislike for Sexton.

Sexton went to France to earn more money and you cant blame him, unfortunately Ireland were in the situation in that needed him badly, no other 10 came close and unfortunately no other 10 still comes close. There is a big drop off from him even as a 38 year old.

Zebo was no where near his level and had numerous adequate replacements who were actually probably better than him when he decided to move

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241373#Comment_121241373

You know all this how? Scotland are in the weak u20's groups. Wales haven't contended in years. The kiwis have been very poor at u20 level. England might get better. I'd be worried about France. U20's won the last 3 world cups. Scotland have absolutely nothing in the pipeline! They'll do well to stay a tier 1 nation

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245305#Comment_121245305

The new rule where a held up try is a goal line drop out is cruel. You'd be better not going for the line until you are 100% sure you'll get a clear placement or go 5 years beyond the line

letsbefair

How many games a year can players play at the ferocity of those semi-finals ? How often can they get to that level.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245329#Comment_121245329

Yeh, I think there was an element of going for glory about that. Should have been more sure of what was under them before going for it.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121244666#Comment_121244666

Going forward, hopefully Prendergast lives up to his hype because we have a big problem at 10, Crowley and Byrne are simply not international standard.

Ridiculous to be writing off Crowley like this, imo. There's huge potential there.

He's 23 with a high ceiling vs RB who's 28 and pretty much at his ceiling. (The fact Crowley was getting selected ahead of RB is telling, imo)

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245334#Comment_121245334

I'm sure SA have the experience to know you are vunerable after a game like that if you don't prepare properly. As you say, hard to get to a level again.

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245258#Comment_121245258

I understand the IRFU position on players going to France but Sexton should not have been above that call. I have heard all the arguments about it and recall the arguments made about it at the time and I don’t accept those arguments then or now.

Sexton should not have been number 1 out half for this World Cup. It’s been too much about him for too long and the way it ended with him left on the field until the bitter end instead of fresh legs brought in when needed sums it up.

I’m not slagging him off, the manager and his team should have moved on from Sexton and made him back up or at the very least not continued a situation where they felt so reliant on a 38 year old that they felt they couldn’t sub him towards the end of a quarter final.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245282#Comment_121245282

Tbh, I've regularly heard defeats of 4 points described as losing by a score.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245358#Comment_121245358

But you are guessing at motivation here without the facts that the coaches had.

They clearly didn't think he was the problem and maybe thought he had the experience and ability to snatch the game.

That's the coaches call, that is what they are paid to do. They did it.

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245378#Comment_121245378

Well yeah I think that’s what people are questioning.

The manager and his staff have done a great job but at this World Cup when the stakes were higher than ever I think they were slow to react to problems in game like the line out v South Africa and the line out again plus the scrum problem v The All Blacks. I also think they should have brought in Crowley because Sexton looked knackered.

captbarnacles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245341#Comment_121245341

I'm curious, it looked like if Murray takes the ball out he just dives over for a try but there is a defender near enough to him? Haven't watched it back yet.

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245347#Comment_121245347

I like Crowley any time I’ve seen him and I think he’s been underused. If they were subbing the scrum half routinely in games including the big ones v SA and NZ, why not the out half? Too reliant on Sexton.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245419#Comment_121245419

They more or less sorted the lineout issue in the SA game.

I would like to look at the lineouts we lost to NZ, I would bet they were all because the NZ were closing the gap illegally, there isn't much that can be done when that is being ignored.

We needed experience in the last few minutes. Coach called it, in play and real time, because it was his job to do that. I am not going to second guess him using hindsight. It could just as easily have been the right call.

Again, such is elite sport.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245459#Comment_121245459

I’d agree with that. He should’ve been on for the last 10-15 mins, imo.

Was just making the larger point that, going forward, anyone coming to the conclusion that a 23-year-old Crowley is not the answer and not international standard, is being pretty premature.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245375#Comment_121245375

It is a bizarre point from Fintan again.

How many times have we heard it's a 'one score game'?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245452#Comment_121245452

I think they might do that if they had it to do again.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245048#Comment_121245048

I wonder why sexton was treated differently, its almost as if he was the best player in the world at one point, oh wait.

This revisionist history is pretty disgusting but no surprise there are knives out for sexton given all has achieved, nothing more irish than that.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245358#Comment_121245358

I guess you agree he was a success in France since you didn't make a reference to it?

None of the other players stepped up and took his jersey, that's not Sexton fault. Joey for instance was given so many chances, all of the options got game time during the last campaign and none stepped up. He has been the best 10 in Ireland for the past few years and why wouldn't Ireland pick him? we should always pick the best players for the international team.

He was left on the pitch because when Crowley was put on the week before he didn't do a good job and it fell apart. That's not Sexton fault, that's up to Crowley to perform.

You say people are not critical of Sexton yet the same nonsense has been posted for years all over social media and in the media who wanted Sexton out.

The guy is retired. He will be replaced now anyone, let's hope these people you think should have played instead of him are actually as good as you think they are.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245498#Comment_121245498

Classical simantics

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245498#Comment_121245498

Classical semantics ! Anyone who has a basic understanding of rugby would know ,instinctively, what that ‘one score’ means - most especially the type of score needed and is the team behind going for a draw or a win. Eg (1) if you are 4 pts behind you need TO SCORE try to win . (2) if you are 2 points behind you only need to SCORE a penalty or drop goal to win. (3) if you are 6 points behind you need to SCORE a try and convert it to win. (4) if you are 3 points behind and would be happy with a draw then you need to SCORE a drop goal or slot over a penalty to draw.

The above, hopefully , fixes that SCORE argument!!!!!!

Clo-Clo

Also if you look back over all these reviews, it seems to be pick a player and lie a lot of the blame at that player

The 10 is one player in the team, no matter who is playing. Ireland have managed to put together a game plan which beat every major side in the World in the last few years. Yes they lost at qtr final but that doesn't mean we throw out the whole system and start again. We alos have a U20 team which made it to the finals.

The big changes need to happen at underage level to get more players. More options. Then we need to look at 4 provinces and see do we have enough options for players who might slip through the system.

The World Cup post mortem threads should be a discussion about that, how to progress rugby in Ireland on the back of the numbers watching etc. Not pick a player I don't like and slag him off.