Farm payments 2023

03-10-2023 8:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187235#Comment_121187235

I'm being overly hard on the Department to make a point. Usual caution that there are lots of good people in there (I've met some), but the truth really is that moving the payment from September to October when many can't make that adjustment as there's nothing to fill the gap will cause real hardship. Not everyone has a first(second?) job to fall back on, not everyone has the cash flow being talked about, not everyone want's to be dragging out of their better half to fill a gap in the black hole of farm finances. Getting new bills and demands when you know the kitty is empty is a cold spot to be inhabiting. I'm lucky this year I have a cushion, but I've also had a few thousands in unexpected bills along with the same cost of living rise everyone else is paying. In a "normal" year, not sure how I'd have managed it tbh.

Silverdream · 03-10-2023 8:46am

I don't think battering people about managing finances is fair. I inherited the farm but also inherited a lot of debt with the farm. I've often thought to myself how much better off I would have been if I was left nothing. Between home mortgage repayments, and all the other bills life throws you find will always end up tight for money by the end of the Summer. Telling folks to get a f@@king overdraft just shows how far someone is from reality. Banks will not lend a cent to a young family with a Mortgage and only one income. I remember those days only too well, I'd say if I had gone into the bank the manager would be pressing the button under the counter for security to throw me out.

Thankfully those days are behind me now, but there are plenty of farming families that have that situation to contend with. If anything I think the pressure on young families is far worse now days.

Farming in the EU is setup to be dependent on subsidies and payments, its the reason you can walk into Tesco and buy 2 Chickens for €8 or a steak for less than a fiver. So it's not acceptable to be messing about with delays to the payments, Imagine the outrage if Salaries were held back for a few days never-mind over a month

Bass Reeves · 03-10-2023 8:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187530#Comment_121187530

I was checking it up the department actually send a letter to each and every farmer out about the delay in payments the middle of last March. The farm organisations actually complained to the the Department for sending out the letter at one of the monthly meetings.

The main problems are not to do as such with IT systems I imagine. Rather I think because of the change in rules around not eligible area's virtually every farming the country had to be remapped. That would have been a substantial volume if work. The only real way around it would have been to bring forward the application date for SFP last Spring to the end of April which was not feasible and again we would have farmers and farm organisations throwing the clothes off themselves

I imagine the Department is unwilling to throw OT to solve solutions like this. If you do that in the public service it becomes endemic within the organisation. It's the same in any public service organisation.

A well you had the workload this year with a new acres scheme which was rushed last year to try and get it in place before year end. We will have the same this year. If I was critical of anything about Acres it is the payment for some tasks is getting to tight and people will start to leave it to one side asa scheme. The other criticism is the way planners put farmer in for scored grassland so as they found get a yearly payment

whelan2 · 03-10-2023 9:11am

I think insurance is crazy, in fairness our membership was 275 this year and he got a half zip in that. That's it , unlike gaa we're you pay the membership fee and then there's alwsys fundraising for other ****. Just prefer to pay the fee and be done with it. This was the first year we've no one in local gaa club, they still wanted membership off me. On the club gear, I don't buy it. They get their kit for a game on the day , that's all they need. Buy it and then it's lost at a pitch somewhere

green daries · 03-10-2023 9:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187598#Comment_121187598

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187530#Comment_121187530

These are both great posts that reflect the reality of farming and farm incomes in Ireland.

Herd I wasn't having a go at your earlier post ......u think its terrible that there's such inertia in the civil service. But I see that it's creeping into all sectors of business now as well. IMHO.

green daries · 03-10-2023 9:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187519#Comment_121187519

Not at all my good friend I don't drink 🍸 . I do like some bitter foods though

Donald Trump · 03-10-2023 9:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187598#Comment_121187598

The ironic thing is that the main stirrer doesn't even have the self awareness to realise that while he pontificates about cashflow, every tenth post on the thread or forum is about how he bought his own place and made sacrifices such as having to go without simple things and his kids had to make do with certain things etc. (basically a version of having to walk to school in his bare feet - uphill all the way there and uphill all the way back). Where was the great cashflow projection and management back then?

And that was from someone who would have had a fixed wage coming in as well! If you only have farming for income, the only payment that you will have that is fixed is your SFP.

I've been on the lookout for a bit of land for the last few years. Ideally 50-60 acres. But it will be bought with savings I have from a 9-5. And if I topped up with a loan to buy a bigger place, I'd be basing my ability to repay that mainly off the 9-5, rather than depending on the land to return anything.

I'd be buying it because I want to buy it to have it. It is most certainly not the same as someone making a big investment (land or otherwise) and having to pray that all the variable prices that they are subject to don't hit the floor.

03-10-2023 9:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187629#Comment_121187629

I don't understand the fascination with this letter, unless it's accompanied by a cheque it can't be spent so it's fairly irrelevant to people that are left with too much month left at the end of the money. Funds received will have been allocated and fairly well spent since the previous September when that ANC cash will have been used to patch the previous Summers bills. Each and every year it's commented on here how welcome it is and how fast it's been sent out the door to contractors, merchants etc.

Highlighting the problems is just highlighting the mess there is with what appears to be a cumbersome and largely inflexible system. The IT or OT issues aren't caused by the farmers who have submitted their applications in good faith and on time. They deserve to get paid on time.

I see the same slapdash with ACRES as there was with GLAS regarding deadlines and subsequent corners being cut. It'll be the farmers left to worry whether they'll be holding the baby due to that as always.

As someone who helped to set up a farm org, their job is precisely to tackle the Dept. based on issues. Are they always right or worthwhile? No. But, whether they're heeded or not is something that's a lot more complex when you see it while you're sitting at a table across from them.

DBK1 · 03-10-2023 9:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187629#Comment_121187629

The dept sending out a letter is irrelevant. There are a lot of farms where that money is already committed to something and is scheduled that way.

Lads that built sheds etc over the last few years and are making maybe 6 monthly payments on bank loans would have the repayments scheduled so that there’s one towards the end of October when the sfp would be in. That can’t be changed now so there’ll be a big hole to be filled for a few weeks on some farms now.

Bass Reeves · 03-10-2023 10:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187689#Comment_121187689

🦆 Anybody that buy anything will have to make choices. If you ready post about what I posted in regarding to make sacrifices it was in regard to the most sevear economic crash this country ever had.

On my children I said they found it tougher during the boom, they were younger and everybody around was flinging money around just like now. And even though we went abroad on holidays every second year and holidayed at home every other year, it was the older car we drove and we did not eat out twice every weekend like others.

And cash flow is about making choices and sarcifices . Life is about exactly the same thing. And yes the job paid for some of it but farm profitability paid for the rest. Just like in every other forum I dealt with you, you chose to miss quote and misinterpret what is posted.

Bass Reeves · 03-10-2023 10:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187726#Comment_121187726

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187699#Comment_121187699

It has everything to with it. The only payment that farmers were entitled to in September was the ANC, for the last 10+ years the rest of the SFP is an advance emergency payment that seldom happen elsewhere in Europe.

Like I said a small overdraft wound have solved the problem

Donald Trump · 03-10-2023 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187817#Comment_121187817

Simply pointing out the dichotomy. Most people who make big investments will have themselves fairly tight in the first few years. That is normal. By your own accounts you left yourself fairly tight. It worked out for you but perhaps you were only a pandemic or Ukraine war away from it not working. i.e. something you had zero control over. Attributing success to just sacrifice or intelligence is likely a manifestation of survivorship bias.

You need to appreciate that most lads won't have regular cheques coming in every month. Even the dairy lads who get the regular cheque don't know in how much it will be for this month until after well the month has finished - never mind knowing far in advance.

It's all well and good to go on about overdrafts - but they are not cheap. And given the year that has been in it, some lads might already have dipped into them.

A delay makes no difference here and won't even be noticed. It's a relatively small amount. But that doesn't mean I'm going to pi$s on those for whom it might be an issue. It's often just timing and depending what stage you are at in terms of making improvements etc. Usually things that were unpredictable - even though it might be natural to look back at it afterwards and convince yourself that you actually were smart enough to predict it in advance if it does go well.

Go back in time to when you couldn't go for your pint or go to your rugby match. Now add in your boss telling you that you won't get your wages for a month. And then some randomer just flippantly telling you "as shure plan your cashflow or just get an overdraft and stop whinging"

GNWoodd · 03-10-2023 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187831#Comment_121187831

How do you know that farmers haven’t already maxed out existing overdraft facilities ?

Farm organisations should be demanding a meeting with the Minister today and an advance payment based on 2022 applications should issue this week .

Rural Ireland and particularly farmers in the West have put up with enough. Loss of income, reduced economic activity ,loss of services, closed shops , pubs etc . Time to shout stop

mayota · 03-10-2023 10:59am

13th September

Bass Reeves · 03-10-2023 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187901#Comment_121187901

You are waffling again 🦆 comparing COVID, the Ukraine war, Brexit or the present interest hike to the crash of 2009-2012 crash. Anybody that had serious debt through that crisis and survived wound walk through any other economic downturn.

Interest rates increased repayments by 25%, wage cut was 10%, An Agri advisor left me without a reps scheme, tax increases, cuts to the children allowance and increase in college fees all added to over 5k/year

So as I said you just continue to waffle

Silverdream · 03-10-2023 11:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188003#Comment_121188003

No mention of the Organics payments, I wonder do they come under ECO Scheme or is the organics payments made at another time of year?

Donald Trump · 03-10-2023 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188008#Comment_121188008

The question I would have for you would be that, given your unparalleled business and farming acumen, you never repeated the trick? And how you haven't helped your own kids to do it? Why would you keep your knowledge a secret from them?

There is an elderly man beside us here with nearly 200 acres of a farm. His father was a civil servant back in the day but he bought a good few farms and left easily over 600 acres to his children. Some of which is very valuable now due to locations beside towns. The other larger blocks are within about a 20 mile radius. Given that you don't appear to think that conditions change over time - how come you only managed about 60 acres? Was that man just a lot smarter than you, or just a harder worker, or did he maybe just have to miss even more rugby matches than you?

You are some man for the victim complex to be fair. Any bump in the road that you encountered was apparently a monumental obstacle. Any that you didn't encounter, but that others have, is something that a man of your genius would have been able to manage without a thought.

893bet · 03-10-2023 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188073#Comment_121188073

I think 85 % paid December and balancing 15 %?March (ish).

memorystick · 03-10-2023 12:12pm

I'm feeling the pinch of not being in Glas. It was a good bonus to get and great incentive to improve the place. This year is one of two step back for many. I can't believe how little I have left after restocking plus all bills paid. The lads with corn to cut must be struggling.

farawaygrass · 03-10-2023 12:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186738#Comment_121186738

Local club is trying to fundraise for a new pitch development. I heard the committee are a bit shocked at how slow donations are

massey 265 · 03-10-2023 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187629#Comment_121187629

I might not agree with u on some issues but ur spot on with the last sentence re acres planners putting their clients in for scored actions,which meant they have to call out to score action with corrosponding annual fee although most of these actions only need to be scored in year 1,3 and 5 .Not in their interest to put their clients in for linear actions as this would only yield them the initial 1st yeat plan fee.

J.O. Farmer · 03-10-2023 1:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187817#Comment_121187817

Those sacrifices don't sound too bad. Your kids had a privileged upbringing and you are doing them no service to have them thinking they had it in any way tough.

I may be slightly older than your kids but I grew up in the 90s and early 2000's when the boom times were getting boomier. I didn't leave the country until I was 16, even then it was a fundraised trip to Lourdes

Holidays at home mainly meant day trips. Growing up I remember dad changing engines and clutches nevermind starters and altenators in the older cars we had.

Eating out was once or twice a year.

I had a good childhood and never wanted for anything but maybe my expectations were lower.

Sami23 · 03-10-2023 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188606#Comment_121188606

I disagree as by my planner putting me in for the Low Input Grassland which has to be scored like you say in 3 out of the 5 years means I get approx. 3k return on it each year and only have to pay the planner a couple of hundred in those 3 years to complete the scoring so your point makes no sense.

Fair enough they will make money on the call outs to complete the scoring but the farmer will benefit more.

j8100 · 03-10-2023 4:08pm

Does anyone know if there's a date for Acers payment in 2023?

endainoz · 03-10-2023 4:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189564#Comment_121189564

I think a good bit of stuff will be coming in mid October into November.

tanko · 03-10-2023 4:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189564#Comment_121189564

85% due end November/December, 15% next May i think.

massey 265 · 03-10-2023 8:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188860#Comment_121188860

I take ur point as regards ur own situation re acres planner .I personally was quoted 700eu with 600 annual fee each year by my regular planner who insisted on scoring options but went with other planner with linear options for 500 fee for year one plan and no annual fee.Just making the point as that was my experience