Farm payments 2023

Silverdream

Anyone else feeling the pinch of no September payment this year. Fairly under pressure now for the next few weeks till the Wean-ling sales start. Are we due a few quid in October at all? I know the SFP is usually in December but I'll have to go into hiding before then if i don't get a few quid in

No pinch this year thanfully, but pretty much every other year that September payment rescued me. It's a disgusting move that will put a lot of families under genuine hardship.

BlueSkyDreams

What happened to the September payment?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185724#Comment_121185724

It was moved a month to October

BlueSkyDreams

Thanks. But its still the same amount of payments altogether?

What is the point of the move then?

Sami23

Anyone know a date for the 1st payment (anc) this month ?

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185763#Comment_121185763

Dept are saying BISS is a new system so their computers (and staff?) need extra time to process everything.

Just don't remind them that they've had over 12 months to get the new system in place and tested.

Silverdream

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185763#Comment_121185763

Just a bit of muscle flexing by the Minister. I'll be ok as I can juggle money from another account at the end of the day but I know a lot of lads needed that money to settle contractor or Coop bills from the Summer.

It was poor form

Water John

ANC comes in first on the 17th.

Bass Reeves

It's a one off year. It was highlighted earlier in the year and we have known since April/May. If lads are dipping into SFP to pay day to day farming bills they are probably as well.off without it.

Farming and Beef farming Isa cash business. You should structure it as such. You need a fund, but lads choose to keep spending the money elsewhere.

It's similar with cashflow in any other part of your life you need displine in managing money.

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185898#Comment_121185898

That’s a great help to the OP. I’m sure he’ll appreciate the advice

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185898#Comment_121185898

Exactly.I was trying to explain about managing cash flow to dairy farmers here a few weeks ago but they simply didn't want to know. After all the money they made last year they claimed they hadn't the money to pay their tax

Silverdream

September is a tough month for many farm families with kids back to School etc I've been in that boat and it's not easy

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185898#Comment_121185898

I don’t think you understand as much about finances as you like to portray you do on here.

What you’re saying is grand for a lad that’s semi retired and has a pension, or maybe even for lads with off farm jobs as well. But I don’t think you understand the difference between this and lads that are paying wages or paying a mortgage and running a house off their farms.

You often talk about how profitable your system is on your farm but you’ve never said what salary you take from it or how much it contributes to your mortgage every month?

As a contractor I have to understand all of these things as there’s no point trying to get blood from a stone so I try and give every lad a chance to pay his bill and be as flexible as I can. Talking rubbish about what the cash flow and cash discipline from the farm should be isn’t much good to the man with a house to be paid for and kept from the farm.

manjou

When anc payment is paid then everything else follows which means you can pay out bills not necessarily farm bills. If anc payment held up then usually there is a problem which means you have to watch what you spend till it comes in. Maybe I'm on my own on this 1 but I'll spend nothing till anc is in as all money needed for household bills. Also the cynic in me thinks that there is a problem with new system and there will be delays and they held of paying so loads of angry farmers didn't land at ploughing to cause trouble in dept tent like what happened before.

Lime Tree Farm

If your weanlings are fit - can you go earlier. Limestone cowboy said Gort mart prices were on fire.

TinyMuffin

Main payment will be a little over half what it was last year here.

Green acre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185898#Comment_121185898

What would you recommend spending the sfp on?

Water John

A Disney trip to Orlando, for a family of four, all in, will cost you €7.5K

Anto_Meath

As @manjou said you are a little nervous until you receive then ANC money, as usual once u receive payment for it on time then the rest will follow. If you don't receive it then it's phone calls to the department until next March until you get paid.

TCDStudent1

Farmers Journal had quite a helpful page last week where they outlined the expected dates for payments. Cant remember if just mentioned month. I meant to take a picture of it but unfortunately forgot and cant find it now.

blue5000

Missed direct debits and a few bounced cheques will make people look bad on credit ratings. The department sent a text alright that payments will be later this year than previous years. Even a few hundred would make a difference to cash flow in September to a lot of people in disadvantaged areas. There was no need for that to be delayed IMHO.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185898#Comment_121185898

It is not acceptable full stop. Just because you can manage without it isn’t much good to the thousands that depend on it to pay bills and those further downstream that depend on being paid such as contractors feed and fuel suppliers etc.

No organisation worth its salt should have accepted a delayed payment . If the DOAFM is worried about overpayments they have the ball in their court and can recoup overpayments like they did with BEAM .

Doors should be kicked in at this stage if only for the optics of it. There must have been fifty Department staff at the three days of the Ploughing so the line about being under pressure staff wise is nonsense

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185930#Comment_121185930

The best thing you can tell people is the truth, it might not be nice but its better in the long run. I have told the BIL for the last two years his silage is sh!the and he needs to change the way he makes it. The penny is finally dropping there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185944#Comment_121185944

It's about managing cash flow. Most lads in beef are working nowadays, there wives are working it's a matter of managing you money. If you look around most people that have money problem just cannot manage money.

I see loads of couples on the OAP not able to spend it, they have there car, there household bills( electricity oil fuel house insurance etc) all managed and other cannot. There is usually one if three reasons, cigarettes, alcohol or gambling. It's the same right through society but now you have the added discressonary spending.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185945#Comment_121185945

First off I have not touched my pension fund. At present the farm and the rental pay for all my necessities. It pays my diesel bill,car tax, insurance and maintenance. House insurance, broadband and mobile phone heating oil and coal.. Health insurance, the management fees for the holiday home, any maintenance around the house( last weekend a lock collapsed in the back door at home it cost about 220 to get it sorted, there is a crack in the glass of the door as well and that will cost another 60-100 euro) I replace the lawnmower's, hedge cutters string trimmers etc ( two of them last year),

I buy the odds and ends of the household messages asI am passing a SuperValu every day usually about 30/ week, herself buys the main shop. The dog and cat food come out of the farm account.She books the holidays I bring the spending money or if we are out it's always I have cash on me. The church on Sunday is the same

The farm put the kids through college while they were there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186186#Comment_121186186

As you see above just about everything along with the farm expenses. But that was not what I was referring to in my post. I remarked that farming and beef farming is all about management if cash flow. There is 100k+ goes through my farm account it the management of that which I referred.

We knew since last April/ May that the SFP was going to be about 30 days later this year. Ya we would all prefer it was not. However that gives you 4-5 months to put a plan in place. It was not sprung on us last week.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186498#Comment_121186498

Yes I agree we should all be hoping there is no hiccups that will delay the rollout of payment and of the first one clicks the rest will also unless there is an issue with ACRES or the fodder scheme.

But farming is a business and sh!t happens in business. I have a 10k overdraft on my farm account. I have not used it for 3-4 years. I used it alot before that.

I was speaking to a Eastern European a few years ago. He commented that in the Irish education system there was no real business/ personal money management training. Neither was it done at trade or farm training

In eastern Europe it was originally introduced after the collapse of the communist system. It was something after he said it that I consider is a significant weakness in a lot of smaller farm businesses.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185930#Comment_121185930

The best thing you can tell people is the truth, it might not be nice but its better in the long run. I have told the BIL for the last two years his silage is sh!the and he needs to change the way he makes it. The penny is finally dropping there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185944#Comment_121185944

It's about managing cash flow. Most lads in beef are working nowadays, there wives are working it's a matter of managing you money. If you look around most people that have money problem just cannot manage money.

I see loads of couples on the OAP not able to spend it, they have there car, there household bills( electricity oil fuel house insurance etc) all managed and other cannot. There is usually one if three reasons, cigarettes, alcohol or gambling. It's the same right through society but now you have the added discressonary spending.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185945#Comment_121185945

First off I have not touched my pension fund. At present the farm and the rental pay for all my necessities. It pays my diesel bill,car tax insurance, house insurance, broadband and mobile phone heating oil and coal.. Health insurance, the management fees for the holiday home, any maintenance around the house( last weekend a lock collapsed in the back door at home it cost about 220 to get it sorted, there is a crack in the glass of the door as well and that will cost another 60-100 euro) I replace the lawnmower's, hedge cutters string trimmers etc ( two of them last year),

It put the kids through college while they were there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186186#Comment_121186186

As you see above just about everything along with the farm expenses. But that was not what I was referring to in my post. I remarked that farming and beef farming is all about management if cash flow. There is 100k+ goes through my farm account it the management of that which I referred.

We knew since last April/ May that the SFP was going to be about 30 days later this year. Ya we would all prefer it was not. However that gives you 4-5 months to put a plan in place. It was not sprung on us last week.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186498#Comment_121186498

Yes I agree we should all be hoping there is no hiccups that will delay the rollout of payment and of the first one clicks the rest will also unless there is an issue with ACRES or the fodder scheme.

But farming is a business and sh!t happens in business. I have a 10k overdraft on my farm account. I have not used it for 3-4 years. I used it alot before that.

Water John

Second payment is on the 24th, can't remember which, but it could be BISS. Organic and Acres are Nov/Dec I think. Could be wrong there. Contractors and coops would be well aware of payments delay this year.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186614#Comment_121186614

It is part of my income. But farming is a business and managing cash flow is part of the skills of running a business.

I cannot understand the mentality in farming that every f@@king thing is a mini crisis. We got told about this last f@@king April. If it's that f@@king critical to cash flow do what any other businesses dose get a f@@king overdraft.

In most other countries in Europe farmer struggle to get there payments in an orderly manner. It is acknowledged by the EU that the Irish department is the most efficient and effective in getting this payment paid. Actually most years we get them paid before we should

And this year because there is a significant change in the structure of payments ( significant mapping and other technical changes) they notified us 4-5 months before payment that they was going to be a delay. They are spending taxpayers money and have to get it correct. Will they make mistakes yes, however they will fork out the bones of 1.5 billion between now and year end.

Anto_Meath

@Water John I know of a meal supplier rep that called to a big dairy farmer recently looking for some money towards his account. The dairy farmer told the rep, "his payment wasn't in this months budget" I would say they are hearing similar quite a bit. I always pay AI once I get the statement of account in September as I am finished with them until the following May then. I rang to pay the other day, they were surprised told me they aren't expecting payment until this month. But in fairness I got a better discount than normal so there was a benefit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186674#Comment_121186674

I think you're being blind to how many farms do operate. What's been paid into farmers accounts since f@@king April, sweet f@@k all, which we're used to - that's fine. But it's f@@k all use to those farmers who planned on a September payment to give them a "flegging" of "live horse and you'll eat" by delaying their first payment after the hungry gap so to speak. When there's no farm income in Summer because what was drawn down late last year already has been spent on running the farm, cost of living increases, unforeseen expenses etc. and certainly in my area big sales haven't been long going on, sales which would already have been factored into dealing with bills, it's shag all use in practical terms to get told there's a delay. You can't spend that.

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185944#Comment_121185944

Brother is manager of a kids soccer team, they play during the winter, fees were due in September, half of them still haven't paid. 300 each! Crazy money at that time of year

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186674#Comment_121186674

No one here yet has said it’s a crisis, the only overreaction is your own with all the f@@king. The op stated if it’s not being paid until December he’ll have to go into hiding but that shouldn’t be the case as they are scheduled for October so I hope it’s not a crisis for him/her either.

It’s ok for people to be annoyed about these things without being under pressure for the money. At the end of the day it’s money that’s due in and if a lad just wants to look at it sitting in his account that’s his own business and it’s not up to me or you to tell him he should or shouldn’t be doing that or be annoyed about not being able to do that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186632#Comment_121186632

You may not have touched your pension fund but where did that fund come from? If I remember correctly it’s only a few weeks ago you posted here that you were 20 years farming? You have also stated before that you worked in a well paying job and aren’t long retired from it, I assume that’s where the pension fund came from? Again as I said previously that’s very different to lads that are trying to pay for all, including their pension fund, from the farm.

Tileman

Have to agree on the last post bass.

everything gets blown up into a crisis these days. Like many others I could do with the money at the moment. Was doing a bit of building and cash flow is tight. A month didn’t seem long a few months ago but it feels a long time now.

But they did inform us 4-5 months ago and they have got the money out fairly effecientky in the past and I’m sure they will next year too.

to the original OP could u apply for an overdraft to get you over the next few weeks.

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186760#Comment_121186760

Do you know how slow banks are atm?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186771#Comment_121186771

People had five months to apply.

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186777#Comment_121186777

Would probably take the 5 months for them to get back to you...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186777#Comment_121186777

Hadn't the department 5-7 years to prepare.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186674#Comment_121186674

Would you give the same advice - "do what any other businesses dose get a f@@king overdraft" - to any landlord who is complaining that their tenant has been slow in paying lately and has informed them that they'll be even later for the next few months due to cutbacks at work?

Because you do an awful lot of complaining on another forum on the hypothetical fear that a tenant might be late in paying........

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186759#Comment_121186759

What about the hoo-ha over the derogation, then nearly every second year we have a mini panic over the closed season for slurry.

If we get a few showers the tillage farmers need to be compensated. Last Spring we had the hoo-ha over the drop in the spring beef price mainly because lads got greedy in January and February and taught they make a killing like the year before

I have answered more personal questions that anybody here. I even a few years ago showed the main details of my farming accounts. Most lads here got farms handed for nothing to them and maybe that is the problem.

I left home as a teenage, I got very little handed to me throughout my life. I got the same chance as everyone else. I did not go to college but I upskilled and took my chances.

Dunedin

No one knows what really goes on in other people’s homes - maybe a sick family member, an unexpected expense in the home, family car blew up during the year…….. let’s not be so quick to (f@@king) judge.

I’m on boards most days, I read Agri land and farming Indo - I actually missed the bit on the late payments announcement last April so sur shoot me too!!!

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186811#Comment_121186811

Donald Duck that is from another forum. I will discuss that here if you like but it will derail this thread. You have certain off the wall idea and were trolling other contributors you got banned off most of the threads there so I will not carry it on here

However I will make the reply I made to alot of your comment on that thread.....bla bla bla bla

@Dunedin you should never thank apost you know nothing about. It might be an education to go and actually read a few of Donald Ducks posts on those forums.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186799#Comment_121186799

no

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186738#Comment_121186738

is that for one child or a family membership

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186815#Comment_121186815

It’s an anonymous online forum, you could show Larry Goodmans accounts and claim them as your own if you like and no one here can dispute them.

I do agree on one thing, you shouldn’t have to answer any more personal questions. But maybe you’ll now afford the same respect to the posters who say they’ll be under a small bit of pressure by not getting paid the money they are used to getting this time of year. You don’t know any of their personal information so you don’t know why they might need that money and rabbiting on about financial discipline without knowing their circumstances isn’t exactly giving good advice.

There are plenty on here like yourself, and I’m one of them, where they got very little handed to them too and took their chances and gambled at certain times and done well enough for themselves, you’re not the only hero in the room!

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186837#Comment_121186837

Wasn’t sure if I was allowed thank this post or not - f@@k it I took a chance.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186860#Comment_121186860

Ah now. How many schemes have we seen in the past decade with the famous IT issues, or like ACRES with impossible deadlines- agriland has it today 83% of commonages assessed, its October! It's like groundhog day.

Where is the efficiency.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186932#Comment_121186932

There is nothing stopping you,but you really should go and read his posts or for that matter mine as well on the property and accomodation forum. I have nothing to hode there just like I hide nothing here Donald Duck has some strange ways of thinking regarding property

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186956#Comment_121186956

The interesting thing is that over there you complain a lot about imagining the hypothetical scenario of your tenant being late in paying. And you don't like when I point out that that is a well known risk in that line of business and it is one that should be managed. You have expressed the opinion over there a number of times that being a landlord is the only line of business where you might not get paid on time, or might get stuck for payment. Which I always found interesting. I'd imagine that there isn't one poster on this forum who hasn't been stung at least once in their lives by someone who didn't pay them. You definitely won't find a single contractor who has never been stung.

From now on, if I visit that forum, I will have my response ready to copy and paste if you go on about poor landlords not being able to make repayments - "do what any other businesses dose get a f@@king overdraft" 🙂

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186998#Comment_121186998

Donald Duck bla bla bla

What I said it was the only line of business where the business had to keep supplying a service to a customer where that customer was not paying them, It would be similar to a dairy farmer having to keep supplying a co-op that was not paying them for there milk or a beef farmer having to keep supplying a processor or a mart and not recieving payment, I never said anything about it being the only business you could get stuck with a bad debt.

we are not supplying a product to the department they are funding us which we would be better off without if it was right accross the EU.

as I said Bla bla bla

and again its not for this forum

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187026#Comment_121187026

Nope. I distinctly remember pointing out to you that mechanics etc. as one example of often being stung. They'll put parts in and might not get paid. The owner of the vehicle or machine can be working it to their hearts content with parts you weren't paid for.

Whereas you said that the garages that you go to demand payment from you before giving you back possession. Which I thought was unusual as we never operate like that - when something has to be fixed we will try to fix it ourselves, and if we can't, it just gets sent up to the garage and we pay the bill when it arrives in at the end of the month.

I didn't bother posting at the time but the oul' fella had just collected a tractor from the mechanics up the road here and I asked him how much it cost and he said something to the effect of "I don't know but I reckon it'll be a big bill as they had it up there a few days".

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187043#Comment_121187043

Tell me if a customer will not pay for a repair are you forced to service there car 2-3 weeks later again, and again the next month and again the next month and again the next month. I pointed this out at the time you lost the argument there and you will lose it here as well.

Let me tell you again no other business is COMPELLED to continue to provide a service where it will not get paid for.

@Dunedin and you thanked his orginal post on this sh!te as I told him on the last forum a LL must have cuckholded him

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187070#Comment_121187070

Nope. You were moaning about someone hypothetically being able to use your house while continuing to withhold rent until you recover possession. When you recover possession, you don't have to give it back to the same tenant - the same as the garage doesn't have to repair a person's car again.

I pointed out that a mechanic can buy a part, put it in your car/machine, and have to watch you drive up and down the road past his front gate every day with that part unpaid.

The other example I gave you at the time was of all the subcontractors who weren't paid for materials and fixtures/fittings that they supplied and fitted to houses, only for them not to be paid but for the builder to be able to sell on those houses and have people use them every day.

For the first case above, you can now simply take your own advice if a tenant does not pay you on time - "do what any other businesses dose get a f@@king overdraft". Easy peasy.