Divorcing PPR and child maintenance

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129706#Comment_121129706

its going to be similar stats to how many stay at home dads are there, based i would suspect entirely on earning power

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129732#Comment_121129732

it'll be based on them being the primary care giver pre-divorce, how do you think them stats play out

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129675#Comment_121129675

dont pay the mortgage, lose all the equity built up in it over the years, kids out on street, you never get a mortgage again, you'll never buy again

so stupid

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130050#Comment_121130050

Once again for the cheap seats:

Because Ireland is a no-fault👏 divorce 👏 jurisdiction 👏

thatshowthelightgetsin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125073#Comment_121125073

This is not necessarily true. If his ex-wife gets married and has another child with her new guy, she will secure the initial father's house for herself until that new child from her new relationship becomes 23 (assuming they go to third-level) as it's now a new "family home", while the father of the initial family, who owns 50% of the home, rents in some bedsit for decades more. Irish family law, in action.

What's happening to men in the family law courts every day of the week is an off-the-charts injustice - and the Irish government gives millions to women's rights' groups to keep advocating for maintaining this institutional injustice, while Men's Aid has two employees and one meeting in all of Ireland for fathers every few months because Tusla and the Irish Minister for Justice, Helen McEntee TD for Meath East, think the "gender equality" agenda is synonymous with women's rights and refuses to fund Men's Aid beyond a pitiable token sum.

It's long past the time that the ECHR and UN human rights organisations were allowed in to investigate what's happening fathers in the highly secretive family law courts of Ireland. This current family law system cannot continue for much longer, and it will crumble once it is compelled by international investigations to be open and transparent. As everybody must be aware, the Irish State has a long record in scapegoating a section of society and keeping what's happening secretive despite its funding of the institutions and injustices in question - just as it funds the secretive family law system and its fundamental gender-biased rulings in Ireland today.

thatshowthelightgetsin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125293#Comment_121125293

How smug and insincere. It's easy for the ex-wife to advocate being "civil" "for the sake of the children" when she is living in the family home and controlling his access to his own children while he lives in the gutter in some bedsit for decades.

Start throwing mothers out on the streets like fathers are being thrown out and come back with the nauseatingly insincere "Please be civil" and "please think of the children" stuff. Time to slay that sacred cow of "poor mothers" on pedestals in family law courts and treat them equally to men. That's one area of the equality agenda the women's rights industry never want to be equal to men!

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130611#Comment_121130611

I was wondering where you were!

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130611#Comment_121130611

And it gets worse.

I have personal experience of the high court and the associated "journalism".

Report on anything you're not meant to and its the last time you'll see inside the doors.

Not surprising this includes family law courts also.

Ezeoul

Incorrect. The in camera rule is to protect the identity of the family members involved in cases being published. However...

Section 40 of the Civil Liability and Courts Act, 2004 allows solicitors, barristers, and certain other categories of people approved by the Minister for Justice and Equality to attend family law cases and publish reports. 

Part 2 (Sections 3 to 12) of the Courts and Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, 2013 allows bona fide representatives of the Press attend family law cases (subject to the right of the judge to exclude any such representatives) and to publish reports. 

The publication of reports of family law cases is allowed under these Acts on the strict condition that no names, addresses or any other details which might identify the parties can be used.

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130402#Comment_121130402

The equity is already lost, he cant access it, he cant sell it, and he cant live in it.

And should he continue paying for it, and leave himself without the means to house himself or his children at the end of it all should she allow it he will get to sell it and she gets half.

Should he go that route he can never get a mortgage again as he would simply not be able to afford it outside of doubling his wages or winning the lotto.

Not to mention the damage living a life like that will do to the OP both mentally and physically from the constant stress of being on the breadline and desperately trying to get a place of his own so that he can have the kids over. And that wouldnt be just today and tomorrow that would be till his kids are grown time he can never get back.

However if he stops paying for it,

The house goes but so do the mortgage repayments, his ex wife will have to apply for housing which she will be made priority as she has 4 kids.

He will have freed up a massive chunk of his income and provided he sells and protects his current assets from the court he would have a real chance at rebuilding a decent life for himself and his kids, he would have the income to rent or buy potentially down the line done cleverly so the courts again could not go after it.

The only one that would really suffer and unfortunately only in the short term would be the cheating ex-wife due to the safety nets in place to help out these "poor souls".

The last thing he would want to do is rely on the Irish family law courts for any sort of justice or fairness i can only imagine the levels of hypocrisy and double standards he will be dealing with in there.

littlevillage

OP, please keep us updated wrt the legal advice you get and the eventual outcome here.

My layman's guess, is that the court will say, "arragh, sure aren't things grand the way they are now... " hammer falls and now feck off.

kravmaga

@ OP, Hammerhead1,

You should have never moved out of the family home in the 1st instance no matter what the stress or tension in the house with your Mrs or kids.

She can claim "Abandonment " in the Family courts. Blaming you on leaving the family/ relationship even though she had the affair.

Especially if your name were on the deeds of the house.

Hope you get good legal advice and don't make decisions before consulting your solicitor.

Hope it all works out in the end.

Hammerhead1

Firstly it’s almost certain a judge will decide nothing . Settlement meetings in advance will allow negotiation on both parties . I’m not taking the burn the house down approach. I’ll survive for now and rebuild . Focus on the positives etc . Yes the current position is difficult but people have it worse . I have my health.

tayto lover

Whatever you do OP I wish you the best of luck.

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131142#Comment_121131142

Best of luck with it OP

GarfieldandPookyBear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121126631#Comment_121126631

Stop with your advice. It’s bad advice and any judge would have a field day with you in their court! You sound very bitter. The reason for their divorce has no bearing on the arrangements going forward. The OP clearly does not share your spiteful attitude and does not want to be unemployed. He wants what is best for his children and taking them from their mother and their home so that he doesn’t have to pay her maintenance is clearly not in the best interests of his children.

As for you thinking the courts are biased, take a look at all the advice you gave him. That happens every day in the district court and that is the attitude that a judge will penalise you for. The courts are not biased towards mothers, they are biased towards the children! For a father to purposely lose his job and let his children’s home go to ruin is NOT putting his children first.

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131342#Comment_121131342

My advice is exactly what he should do if his thinking in the long term, and would like to have any sort of a life for himself and his kids... no sane man would willingly hand over more than 50% of there wages to a woman that cheated on them so they can have a cushy life and he can be homeless, your advice is insane.

The reason for there divorce has nothing to do with it? thats awful convenient for the cheater isnt it? DID SHE PUT HER KIDS FIRST WHEN SHE CHEATED? We'll just skip the fact that she with no regard to her kids or family absolutely tore there lives apart and removed there father completely from there home... and now seeks to be compensated for her hardship...nothing to see her folks only a poor woman get the violins.

The truth is the courts can do nothing to a man that refuses to comply, not a damn thing, cant garnish wages he refuses to earn, cant take money or assets you cant find, cant seize items bought by someone else and "loaned" to him.

His goal should be to drive down the maintenance she can get to an absolute pittance and removing the mortgage is a fantastic way to do that and would free up a massive amount of money he could use to house his kids and even gain full custody once shes shown to be unable to provide for them.

And anyone that pities someone like that well... they deserve the miserable position they will inevitably find themselves in.

Modern indentured servitude.

GarfieldandPookyBear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131481#Comment_121131481

Your advice is exactly the reason why father’s end up in trouble with a judge. You must have been cheated on in the past because you seem very bitter. The reason for the divorce doesn’t matter so you need to get over that. The judges or the law do not care about the reason, they care about the children and that they have a roof over their heads, are provided for and have parents who will put them first. The position he is in is because he has children. If he didn’t then it would be more clear cut.

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131551#Comment_121131551

I dont know why your acting like this was some unpreventable natural disaster that befell the family, this was a premeditated calculated decision... by his wife.

Who rather than be remorseful is demanding more money... does that strike you as a person that is putting there kids interests first?.

I dont know why you are trying to attack me personally because you disagree with my opinion lol does it make you mad to know that i would deal with this situation in a ruthless manner and there would be nothing that could be done about it? does that trigger you? maybe you should ask yourself why?

Because if it was me i would be going to the absolute death and doing everything not to give her a cent... the kids would be looked after but she would be homeless and everything she tried to get would be a nightmare battle everytime.

Ezeoul

You are truly delusional if you think any court would hand over full custody of the children to a parent who would act like you're suggesting this man should.

Thankfully, the OP has confirmed that he has no intention of following your frankly terrible advice.

The man obviously loves his children, more than he hates his ex-wife.

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131864#Comment_121131864

Again i dont know where or how your coming to the conclusion that my advice is to some how neglect his kids or make them homeless?

Its a genuinely impressive display of mental gymnastics especially since in every post i have advocated for the father to get the children seeing as he is the only one providing for them and is of good moral standing why would the courts give the kids to a woman that intentionally caused her kids mental distress and caused utter upheaval in there lives because she valued what she wanted over there needs? Better again why would you hope a woman like that gets them?

Are you saying the above person should be let raise kids? i think not and is exactly whats wrong with the system.

Its strange your not one bit outraged by the wife's actions but it seems your enraged by the fact that someone would seek to hinder and refuse outright to fund the life of a cheater, who is using her kids as a shield in a situation she willingly created, shes no remorse instead greedily looking to get more money.

Speaks volumes about you and tbh the more you try defend the indefensible, it just screams your a woman who more than likely has experience in the situation.

Hopefully he does follow my advice he and his kids will be better for it in the long run it will be the wife who is homeless and suffering and rightly so.

thatshowthelightgetsin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131342#Comment_121131342

"The courts are not biased towards mothers, they are biased towards the children!" Well, that's depressingly naîve and ignorant!

What a complete coincidence that the "best interests of the children" correlate coterminously with the "best interests of the mother" - including with all those mothers who work outside the home as much if not more than the fathers do. How many of that hugh cohort of working mothers lose the family home and control of the children? None? How many working fathers lose it? Why?

The outstanding fact of family law courts is that women are consistently treated like a protected species and given enormous wealth transfers from men and control of their children by order of the judges in our highly secretive family law rulings. If Helen McEntee has nothing to hide, she would allow research statistics to be collected on what's happening in family law courts, and allow ECHR, UN and HRW investigators examine those highly secretive courts. Irish governments continue to resist opening up the family law court judgments and statistics to public scrutiny. For good reason!

GarfieldandPookyBear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131602#Comment_121131602

Aren’t you a sensitive soul for such a bitter person? I am telling you that the reason for their divorce does not matter and you need to get over yourself. Judges do not care and neither should they. God help your husband/wife if they ever decide to divorce you because you are the kind of spiteful person that would turn your kids lives upside down just to seek revenge on your ex. Judges do not look kindly on that kind of behaviour and as the saying goes “f**k around and find out”!

thatshowthelightgetsin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131958#Comment_121131958

"Again i dont know where or how your coming to the conclusion that my advice is to some how neglect his kids or make them homeless?"

That's what's known as a freudian slip - you challenged the idea that the mother should get the family home, so you support "neglect of the kids". That's how deep the mentality of female entitlement is to the family home and control of kids.

In reality, Ireland is full of neglectful, self-absorbed, mentally-unwell, narcissistic mothers who are infinitely inferior parents to the fathers who, by virtue of the latter's gender, have been excluded from their children's lives and their right to parent their own children.

GarfieldandPookyBear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131958#Comment_121131958

You did suggest he smear his wife and out her on social media, tell the kids that their mother is a cheater, stop paying the mortgage and let his children’s home go to ruins, take them from their mother and put their mother out on the street. You clearly do not see it from the children's point of view because you’re so fixated on the reason for their divorce.

Str8outtaWuhan

You need to DNA test the kids if she is a cheater. You could have Cuckoos in the nest OP.

Bass Reeves

@Hammerhead1 just a few questions. How long is left in the mortgage. What are the repayments. What is the value of the house and how much equity is there presently in it.

At present you are between a rock and a hard place and this could go on for years. There is a likelihood that the complete solution will not be solved next year at the divorce hearing. At present you are burning cash. as you indicate its impossible to rent some place at present.

I think you former wife will delay a solution as long as possible what she is getting now is as good as it gets. From your original post you are paying 1750+/ months to your former wife

She has 2.75k in income and you are paying the mortgage as well as after-school childcare and half other costs. In reality she has 4+k/ month and you have 16-1700 euro/ month.

Consider only paying the interest on the mortgage, however I expect you are paying mostly equity in the house at present. I suspect as well that you are 50-70% into the payment stage of the house loan.

I think you need to renegotiate your payments to your ex wife. Get her to pay half the mortgage. TBH with the level of income she has I be paying the mortgage and nothing else and I would consider going interest only on that for the moment.

I think you will be considered as a first time house buyer because of the your presence circumstances. Technically you may be entitled to go on the housing list and get HAP with the present level of support you give your ex spouse.

If you pay the mortgage she should pay after school care. She is recieving 1800/ months( also she will receive back to school supports, Christmas bonus etc) in lone parent and CA.

You can easily justify a minimun 500/ week to live. You should definitely consider trying to rent a place even if this is shared accommodation and you still use your parents house when you have the children.

What is happening is unsustainable for you. You cannot be expected to live with your parents forever and you are as well minding the children about 35% if the week ( I bet you all week ends as well) and you are feeding and caring for the children at these times.

If there is a lot of equity the house, and the house is a seriously valuable asset the judge may decide that it can be sold and it may be financially viable for both of you to be housed out of it. Not in present location and it probably would be apartments.

Can you access a deposit on a cheap apartment at present buying is more viable than renting

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132225#Comment_121132225

And then they wonder why Ireland is a no fault State.

GarfieldandPookyBear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132351#Comment_121132351

Or that they don’t get whet they want in court and then claim the judge is biased towards the other party.

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132262#Comment_121132262

As horrible as that is, it's probably realistically not a bad idea.. she has shown to have 0 remorse for her actions which suggests she would have had no problem doing it before.

Women who do what she's done are genuine evil I would put nothing beyond them.