2023 NFL regular season thread (no picks)

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121587365#Comment_121587365

Baltimore would have just matched it and then you show your hand as a team willing to overpay for a QB.

Lamar is great but the Commanders/Panthers/Bears with Lamar aren't suddenly SB contenders, and the teams favoured for a deep run have their Guy.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121587724#Comment_121587724

So what if the Ravens matched it? At the very worst you're making a potential rival for the SB spend more cap on their QB.

Every team is willing to pay for the right QB - it isn't news. With the cap going up it is hard to overpay a former MVP, who is likely winning another MVP this year. If Watson was having the season Lamar is having this year there would be very little being said about his contract.

Those teams you listed might not be SB contenders this year but every single one of them would be in a far better place to build towards one if they'd gotten Lamar. There are a bunch more, like the Falcons would be looking forward to a home playoff game and Arthur Smith would still have a job.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121588047#Comment_121588047

It wasn't just the Falcons where HCs were fired and by my count 3 of those GMs are also gone

https://twitter.com/JoshTheAthletic/status/1744382738604368382

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121589820#Comment_121589820

Raiders thought they had something in McDaniels/JimmyG combo.

Panthers had already moved up to No 1 draft pick to nab a QB and felt that 4 years from cheap Bryce Young contract was the way to go.

Falcons thought they had something in Desmond Ritter, again rookie contract, put expensive pieces around him etc.

Obviously they all turned out to be wrong (Bryce Young might still be a long-shot possibility to be some sort of success) but they were all at-the-time valid reasons not to look at Lamar. As said they were wrong and coaches sacked.

Washington definitely the most relevant of your examples. Probably an opportunity they regret, but maybe the opening came just too soon for the new ownership who wouldn't have wanted to make a huge error (perhaps they looked at the way that new ownership at Denver had rushed into poor Russell Wilson deal).

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121590915#Comment_121590915

Look at the niners. They moved up to get a QB in the draft so they could get rid of Jimmy G. That didn't work out for them and they had to hold onto Garoppolo. When he and Lance both got injured they decided to give Mr Irrelevant a go and it worked out great. That's just luck, he wasn't even considered good enough to be ahead of Lance. He'd probably have been cut at some stage in the future only for the two ahead of him getting injured.

As regards Washington, it looks like they have a really good one in Howell. Get an offensive line and he'll be a serious weapon.

He threw for nearly 4000 yards and he was sacked 65 times.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121590915#Comment_121590915

There are always excuses not to do things.

None of those stand up to any scrutiny. Panthers made the trade up after Lamar was tagged. The others chose Jimmy G, Ritter, and Howell over a former MVP. Each of those three were benched during the season while Lamar is likely winning an MVP.

It is a huge mess up by HC, GMs, and Owners.

Foxtrol

I'm surprised by how many seem surprised by the Vrabel firing (outside of them not trying to get something in a trade for him). Presume his history as a player and his cult figure personality is a part of it.

He is a good coach but hasn't shown he is anywhere close to top tier. Would be delighted to bring him in if my team was a basket case, as he'd build a great foundation and culture, but not if I wanted to go win Super Bowls.

He clashed with the new GM and his demands on trying to compete while rebuilding ending in failure and setting the team further back. Presume the owners must have had a post season discussion with him and he wasn't for turning on his approach and demands so the only answer was to show him the door.

eagle eye

Vrabel is an excellent coach whose been stuck without a decent QB for his whole time in Tennessee.

I think he'd be great for the Chargers

Realt Dearg Sec

Word going around is harbaugh to the chargers.

There really are a lot of very good HC candidates this year. From a bears perspective that makes it even more frustrating that it looks increasingly likely that we are going to go with Eberflus again, while drafting a new QB. This was what they did with Trubisky and Fields before: drafted them high with very little support pieces around them and put them in with a lame duck HC who everyone knows is on the way out. Looking like they are going to burn a unique opportunity (1st pick and another top ten pick, loads of cap space, very good defensive personnel to allow you to focus on offense) on a HC with no plan for the offense.

Don't be shocked to see them then fire the GM and HC next year and force whoever replaced them to accept the current QB. And then wonder why we never get anywhere.

I hope I'm wrong about all of this, they haven't actually announced anything regarding Eberflus yet. But just thought I'd share what it's like supporting an organization that's incapable of learning anything.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595070#Comment_121595070

What do you think they should do? Stick with Fields and buy more future picks?

This is a very strong QB class. There's guys who'll be going in the third round who'd be very early picks in a lot of draft classes.

Fields seemed to improve a lot towards the end of the season, it's a rough decision to move on from him I think.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595031#Comment_121595031

Excellent leader but have seen very little evidence to point to him as an excellent coach.

You can complain about the QB situation but he has heavy involvement in personnel decisions and the team has gotten worse the more control he has had. They are 13-21 the last two seasons in an incredibly weak division.

He has a defensive background and the team hasn't been anything better than fine there and he hired and stuck with his mate for far too long at OC, even through a DUI, as he guided an inept offense that hasn't scored 30 points in 2 years.

Titans are at a pivot point currently, building a new stadium with a huge amount of cash to spend and a rookie QB they need to decide is the future. There is a case to stick with Vrabel but it also makes perfect sense to move on rather than risking him ruining this opportunity for a rebuild.

cosatron

He was coach of the year 2 years ago. Brought the titans to the playoffs 4 of the 6 years he was there. The whole of the nfl are shocked by the decision and your saying his a mediocre coach. I seen some absolute waffle spouted on this forum but this takes the biscuit.

cosatron

Also did you see his reaction when aj brown was traded that showed he little to do with personnel decisions and that move was the downfall of the titans

Realt Dearg Sec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595086#Comment_121595086

I think they have several good options and one really bad one, the one they've done repeatedly and that it looks like they're doing again. That is: keep the bad/mediocre coach, fire the QB, draft another QB with not enough support pieces under a lame duck coach who will be fired next year.

I'm not sure how I feel about Fields, he does great stuff but then he does very poor stuff, I'm not sure if he has it in him to be consistently good, at least not here. He has been badly served, but that's the way it goes. I think he's worth another shot as long as Eberflus is staying, which he is.

So what I think is that there were two reasonable paths open. One is to get rid of fields and draft a new QB along with a new coach. That option is now gone as of this morning, and I think drafting a QB with the old coach is stupid.

The other option is still open to us, which is to keep fields, trade back in the draft, give him and the coaches an opportunity to prove themselves together, along with lots of new players from draft and free agency, pick a later QB, maybe penix or whoever you think might be good, but just sit them. But there's no way we will actually do that. We are going with the stupid approach, for the third time running. The coaches will hope that Williams works out and saves them their jobs, so he gets thrown into a bad situation. When it doesn't work out they all get fired and Williams ends up under a new coach and a new offense. We've been here before.

Incidentally we have fired Luke Getsy today, so we are going to be looking for a new offensive coordinator, who will be coming into a coaching situation where everyone knows the pressure is on to win right now, probably with a rookie qb, and if you don't the whole coaching staff will be out next year. That's not a recipe for making a strong hire. All in all it just looks like we are making all the same mistakes to continue to be bad not just next year, but for the next two or three years.

But it's not too late to take the other option: keep fields for another year and trade back. That's what I want at this point.

paulie21

Pete Carroll expected to lose Seahawks job. Bit surprised at that

Itssoeasy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121598463#Comment_121598463

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1745164079583359410?s=61

Official statement from the team.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597869#Comment_121597869

Come on, Coach of the Year is a joke of an award - it is more in line with Comeback Player of the Year than any of the others. Are Nagy and Garrett excellent coaches given their names have recently been on the award? He won that award that year on the back of their division being atrocious and was knocked out straight away in the playoffs.

Your stat on the playoffs is wrong, he only made it 3 of his 6 years in charge. It also ignores that he only won a playoff game in 1 year they made it and hasn't qualified in the last 2 seasons, despite the expanded format and weak division. If you take Vrabel's name off his CV then no one cares about the move - results haven't backed up the hype around him.

From the leaks coming out now it seems more and more that Vrabel was angling to get out the door and wanted to be pushed to keep the high ground. If he ends up with the Patriots the Titans may follow the Eagles lead from last season and throw out a tampering claim against them.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599072#Comment_121599072

He won't end up at the Patriots, we don't need a defensive co-ordinator.

paulie21

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1745416354113507506?t=z2RlRtEVh9vK9Vc8UYZJUQ&s=19

Confirmed. The Vrabel era awaits

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601282#Comment_121601282

Pretty much a no brainer to move on from him given their current situation going into the offseason.

Absolutely legendary coach but he completely botched one rebuild in the last few years - wasting a mountain of money and a first round QB pick - so they would have been crazy to give him another shot at it given his age.

Any talk of Bill giving up GM duties was a joke. Even if he theoretically did it would either be in name only or it would be an absolute mess if he and the GM disagreed at any stage. The man has been a god in that building for decades, he was never going to take well to someone coming in and telling him what to do.

Presume Bill wants to go for the most wins in NFL history, though he is one win away from the most losses in NFL history so will be getting that trophy first if he joins another team.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602166#Comment_121602166

Belichick wasn't done in New England. We needed a proper offensive co-ordinator and three players maybe four if you include QB. That's a right and left tackle and an elite wide receiver.

It's too early to tell how good or bad Mac Jones is. He looked like the best in the class in his first season under Josh McDaniels. The offensive line wasn't great that season but it was horrendous the next season and worse this season.

There is no way to even guess what a QB is like with no time in the pocket and no elite receiver to throw to.

Imagine if this season was Patrick Mahomes first with a poor offensive line and only one decent receiver. How would you rate him? He hadn't been anything near the astonishing talent that we seen every season before this one. 27 tds 14 ints, 92.6 QB rating. His second worst yardage season, his second lowest amount of passing tds, his worst int to TD ratio by miles and lowest QB rating by miles.

Anyway, we should hold onto Jones for another year and take Marvin Harrison jr. with the third pick. Get two decent tackles and if Jones isn't good enough then move him on.

eagle eye

Jerod Mayo is the new Patriots head coach. He was the man in waiting, we all knew that when he kept turning down interviews for head coaching jobs.

Just thinking about something insane. Belichick gets a head coaching gig with Pete Carroll as defensive co-ordinator and McDaniels on offense. It'd be like a big FU to three teams in one fell swoop and a massive one if they managed to win the Superbowl. 😁

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604654#Comment_121604654

The OC situation and the player quality issues are 100% Bill's fault. Bill made the decision to bring in his 'boys' at OC and pissed away an extraordinary amount of money and draft picks on his last spending spree trying to rebuild.

Feel you're suffering from extreme case of fan delusion syndrome if you believe that Patriots' roster is 3 players away from challenging for another ring (not an attack at you, we nearly all overestimate our rosters). Sure they have some good and promising players but zero who would be in the top 3 of their position. You're in a new world, you don't have Brady there anymore to elevate those around him nor free agents to fill out your roster on cheap deals in the hopes of getting a ring (you're now at the opposite end of those scenarios).

Jones was supposed to be the low ceiling and high floor option in that draft and this year he has shown his floor is a QB who is a detriment to the team if the situation around him isn't decent. Jones has low ceiling and low floor and Patriots would be crazy to stick with Jones in the unlikely event either of the top two QBs are available.

Mayo seems like a good option for their new HC. I hope for the Patriot's sake it isn't elevating him into Bill's role and keeping everything else the same. That would be an overall negative move - lowering your defensive coaching while keeping everything else that isnt working the same. You badly need fresh blood from outside the building at top levels in the front office and at OC. The approach to incestuous Patriot Way coaching hires from Bill's tree just hasn't worked so putting a new face on it won't change much, especially with Mayo presumably being part of many/all of the decisions that got you there.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121607397#Comment_121607397

You see you are showing in this post how clueless you are at evaluating a QB. There is no QB who would look good with an offensive line like what the Patriots have had for the last two years.

I asked you a question in my last post as regards Patrick Mahomes but you never responded to it. He's had his worst season. Why was that? A poor receiving corp and an offensive line that wasn't great. It wasn't in the same hemisphere as regards being awful as the Patriots but it wasn't good. He had the same QB rating this year that Mac Jones had in his rookie season with a similar offensive line. This is the greatest QB by miles in the NFL looking very ordinary.

I didn't say that Mac Jones is great, good or even average. I said you cannot evaluate a QB in the situation that Mac Jones has been for the past two seasons. The guy that'll look worse in a situation like what Mac Jones had is the competitive player who wants to win because he'll take chances a less hungry player won't.

We have a very average receiving corp. Add Marvin Harrison jr. and two offensive tackles and now you can evaluate a QB. Mac might be terrible but we won't know that until he has a decent offensive line and a receiver who opens up the field.

I remember you saying Lance would be the business, I said he would not. You told me I hadn't a clue. You were wrong, I was right.

You said prior to his rookie season that Mac Jones wasn't that good, he was the best from that class in his rookie season. Again you were wrong.

I said that a pocket passer is better on a championship contender and you said I was wrong. Would you swap Purdy for Lance Jackson or Fields right now? If not then admit that yet again you were wrong.

Having said all that it does look.like Mac's time in New England is over. I think it's a mistake to let him go at this stage. I think we should hold onto him and Zappe and if one looks poor then put in the other and if both aren't up to the job then you'll have a high pick to take one in the draft in '25.

And I'm not overestimating the roster. I'm saying that we have average receivers and awful offensive tackles. How you came to the conclusion that I'm overestimating the roster confuses me. The only players I'm not criticising are the running backs, guards and center. And the guards are in a similar situation to Mac as in it's hard to look good when your tackles are getting beaten on nearly every play.

I am happy with our defensive roster so long as we resign Dugger, Jennings and Uche. If we lose any of them we have a hole that needs replacing. Dugger is irreplaceable, in my opinion he's the best strong safety in the league.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121607608#Comment_121607608

I never said any of those things.

On Lance, I said he had a higher ceiling than Jones and after the 49ers made the huge trade I wanted them to swing for the fences. Lance was raw but had the chance to be elite. You moan about not being able to evaluate Jones properly despite 42 games and take victory laps who has 8 games.

The last time you lied about me saying Jones wasn't going to be good during the draft I went back and pulled my quotes showing the opposite. I said Jones was going to be good, I said I'd be happy with the 49ers taking him at 12, I said he'd do well with the Patriots. The only negative I said about him is that I didn't like his personality and feel backed up by how he acted this season. I'm not digging them up again because you clearly ignored it last time for the head cannon where you can say that you were 'right'.

Where we sit now, I'd be very surprised if Jones is going to get the Patriots back a 4th round pick this offseason that Lance was traded for...

I know Bill leaving has hit you hard but it has caused you to do some wild mental gymnastics. You go on and on defending Jones pointing to receivers, OL, OC. Who is at fault for that? You believe Jones should be the QB next year but who dropped him for a QB who couldn't make the roster this year at cut downs and was released during the year and no other team bothered to pick him up? It wasn't some outsider forcing this on the Patriots, it is the guy you didn't want sacked.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121607949#Comment_121607949

Can I just make this clear to you again as you seem to keep missing it. I am not saying Jones is good or even average at this stage. I'm saying that it's impossible to know what he is.

And anybody saying he is bad or good hasn't a clue what they are talking about because you cannot evaluate a QB in the situation he has been in for the last two years.

That's not me defending him, that's me saying anybody offering an opinion on him based on the last two years does not know what they are talking about.

I'm happy to keep him and Zappe. The other positions that I mentioned are more important pieces right now.

There's no use bringing a rookie QB into our current setup. He would have no hope of doing anything.

And Belichick lost his way as a general manager. I think every Patriot fan on here was hoping he'd step back from that role. It's not surprising because at his age he shouldn't be doing 80 hour weeks.

He's the greatest coach of all time and he's still a great coach. If he finds a team with a good offense then watch out because he'll have a team that'll be serious contenders.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121608690#Comment_121608690

You continue to make excuses why it is 'impossible' to evaluate Jones despite 43 starts and 1346 pass attempts while at the same time having no issue evaluating Lance having started just 4 games and 102 pass attempts - claiming yourself to be 'right' about him.

Pure double standards.

AbusesToilets

We can absolutely see the level of QB that Jones is by now. He's not good. Circumstances contributed to that, but acting as though he's an unknown quantity doesn't help anyone.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121608824#Comment_121608824

I evaluated Lance prior to him going in the draft. As a result of this his performances only confirmed my prior evaluation.

And again you cannot evaluate Jones on the 26 starts since his rookie season.

I evaluated him prior to the draft, and prior to New England picking him and I was hoping he'd drop to us and he did. I'm not at all confident that my evaluation of him was correct but I want to see him with at least an average offensive line and an elite receiver to know for sure.

I was confident Jared Goff would be an NFL starter coming out of college, then I seen him with the Rams and knew I had it wrong. Since he went to the Lions we've seen that he is a solid starter, not great but pretty dependable.

He could just as easily been thrown in the dump heap if the Lions didn't want him as part of the trade. This happens to a lot of QBs who I believe could be successful given a chance in the right environment.

Kirk Cousins was a backup to RGIII, might never have seen the field if Griffin stayed healthy.

Kurt Warner would never have seen the field and likely would have been cut in two years max if Trent Green didn't get injured. There's many players who never got the chance and very few who did.

Brock Purdy is the latest great story, third string Mr Irrelevant becomes an MVP candidate in his first season as starter.

Mac Jones could be one of those stories or he could be a bust. I don't know the answer to that but nobody does and anybody saying they can evaluate him over the past two seasons has no clue what they are talking about. Same applies to Bailey Zappe. Same applies to Bryce Young, a guy I didn't rate coming out of college but you won't hear me tooting my horn saying I told you so because he hasn't had any chance to show what he can do.. Same applies to your current backup Sam Darnold, he never had an offensive line with the Jets or Panthers.

Itssoeasy

https://twitter.com/GovKathyHochul/status/1746216957924319268?s=20

Bills game has been moved from tomorrow to 9:30 pm Irish time on Monday night.