Clampdown on TV 'Dodgy Boxes'

NIMAN

Its nothing to do with 3pm Saturday games, and all to do with getting all the sport you could ever want for 50 quid a year.

Simple as that.

FazyLucker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123797780#Comment_123797780

We've all given up predicting the bubble bursting.

But…in the past 1-2 years the explosion of dodgy boxes can't be not having a huge impact. Many of my friends used to have Sky/BT subscriptions and have gotten rid of them. I know nobody under 40 who is subscribing to either of them.

There is no way when the next set of TV rights come up unless something has massively changed technologically (and I doubt it) there won't be far more trepidation on their part when it comes to how much they are willing to pay.

Professional sport is all ultimately based on the end user and how much they are willing to pay to see it. If the bottom line is absolutely hammered, there is no way it can continue as it has.

Anyway, I'm out as this thread has had 140 pages of a repeated argument and all that has happened is the dodgy box has never been more popular!

ArrBee

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the risk/possibility that malware is heavily embedded in either devices or apps.
Most of the time you wouldnt even know it is there. There are different types of malware posing different levels of security risk from "stealing credentials" thru to "using compute to mine cyrpto"

I read a research paper discussing this topic from 2023 (well, a good bit of it - it was tough going…lol)
I was left with a a few impressions….

1. they include a few mild indicators as a positive malware detection. (registry query, software/security discovery, etc)
2. when all detections are considered there is a high prevalence.

I accept that I wont have fully understood the data or don't know the breakdown of malware inside a supplied device vs downloaded app vs coming from the server or understand how serious some of the more mild detections actually are. But I do believe malware is very common in this "industry" and shouldn't be underestimated.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123798133#Comment_123798133

I reckon it's 2 things. There is a cohort (probably a large one) who are obsessed with football and want to see their team in every match - this is not possible with the current broadcasting model we have in Ireland.

But there is also a cohort who will always go with the cheaper option if one exists. If Sky or whoever had a model that for say €20 a month you'd get every match you'd have people saying "I can get it for €50 a year from my provider" anyway. There is probably a tipping point in price where the vast majority of people would go with the legit option (no idea what that tipping point is), but we see from music streamers - most people now use Spotify or Youtube Music or Apple Music or whatever, but a dedicated cohort will still take to the high seas.

Manc-Red_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123798163#Comment_123798163

Read again. Their problem is the 3pm games and that they can’t be shown in the UK.

redshift-rider

If you buy any type of computing device from an untrusted party or that's passed through the hands of an untrusted party, there is a chance of malware.

If you buy an android stick/box from a trusted vendor (eg Fire stick direct from Amazon, Nvidia shield from Currys) and install a trusted open-source IPTV app onto it then your chance of malware is close to zero.

If you buy a no-name stick/box from aliexpress or a "pre-loaded" device from a lad on donedeal, your chance of malware is quite high. I would estimate it's close to 100% for the worst-case scenario, where an untrusted party (lad on done-deal) has bought a hardware device made by an untrusted vendor, from an untrusted storefront and loaded untrusted apps onto it.

Android malware is not like the old windows viruses where you knew pretty quickly that you were infected because you got a bsod or your files were wiped. A lot of it is only discovered by analysis of network traffic.

Im speaking purely technically, I couldn't care less whether people pirate or not

Manc-Red_

Looking forward to the Premier League on Fubo & Peacock this weekend.

My so called dodgy box will watch it all live via a paid for subscription that’s legally bought from those great providers and will watch whatever game I choose.

Bogey Servers on Legit boxes is what this thread should be renamed.

Either way, the sun will still rise in the morning.

DaTown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123798568#Comment_123798568

Can you watch the F1 on fubo or peacock?

Nowso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123798747#Comment_123798747

not on peacock its on espn in usa

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Id love to see a true representation of how much revenue $ky and other providers are losing from dodgy boxes. They're not losing anything from me because I've never had a sports sub and if dodgy boxes were somehow magically erased in the morning I still wouldn't give $ky or the rest the steam off my piss.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123799175#Comment_123799175

I hate when people type $ky or Sly. You can call them Sky.

You'll never get an accurate reflection on what the number is - it wouldn't suit Sky to try and calculate this and how would you accurately record it?

batistuta9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123799213#Comment_123799213

suits them fine when mentioning it in court though.

but yeah it's impossible really to calculate, they've no real idea on the number of users and some wouldn't pay anyway + some have it along with their full sports sub.

Nigzcurran

I have a shared now TV sub with all the sports in UHD. I still have my shared IPTV sub, free Disney, shared Netflix and a shared peacock sub. It still works out far cheaper than a traditional TV subscription

dxhound2005

A few elephants in the room, and this is a big one. Where is the money going that people pay to get pirated material?

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123799418#Comment_123799418

Sure you told us already:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123599540#Comment_123599540

Any more details on this "vast criminal network"?

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123799433#Comment_123799433

They don't pay taxes.

batistuta9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123799461#Comment_123799461

nobody cares

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123799461#Comment_123799461

Neither do the likes of Apple and Google so I wouldn't worry about John in Wexford not paying some taxes providing dodgy sticks.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123798133#Comment_123798133

That doesn't make sense, why would they care so much about games they can't legally broadcast themselves?

The bottom line is we are stealing copyrighted content, that's the problem. Just like when we used Limewire, napster to download music.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123799213#Comment_123799213

I'll take myself as a example of why dodgy box use may not be as big a problem as people think to the likes of Sky.

I have basic Sky TV, which I get at a discount after rejoining them a few years ago after a while using a FTA/Sat combo box.

Before I had a dodgy box I had Now TV at a discount that I got from Bargain Alerts here.

So when I went dodgy box what loss was I to Sky ?

Feck all because I was getting everything I had from them at a discount anyway.

The people that are valuable to Sky are the people who are paying the non-discounted prices for TV and sports/movies/box set add ons.

They are doing this out of either lack of knowledge about discounts and alternatives, laziness, or they have enough disposable income that it's not a big deal.

And as long as Sky can retain that base, which I can imagine is pretty big, they will not be too bothered by illegal IPTV.

left_hander

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123799547#Comment_123799547

I'd say they are very very bothered. If they weren't, why are they doing so much threatening on the matter?

That base is being eroded all the time. Even well-to-do pensioners I know have a dodgy box, having realised they were being mugged by Sky, BT, Virgin Media, etc and their children or grandchildren are setting it up for them with a VPN for less a year than they were paying Sky a month.

There is no way they are not bothered by this. Their very revenue is being absolutely obliterated for their most valuable commodity - sport. Unless somebody is a huge fan of endless repeats of Nothing to Declare…

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123799547#Comment_123799547

It is actually a bit simpler when it comes to categorising different forms of user. It breaks down into three categories:

Can pay.

Won't pay.

Can't pay.

The first can afford it. The second may be able to afford it but won't pay. The third is either people who cannot afford it and are not in the copyright region so won't be able to legitimately pay for the service. As with any business that depends on subscriptions, it needs to target those who will pay and will continue to pay. It also has to deal with churn and that's the number of subscribers who stop or downgrade their subscriptions.

As long as it remains a very small part of the broadcaster's audience, it is a kind of acceptable level of piracy. There is no such thing as an unhackable broadcaster system. Let's just say that I have a very particular set of skills when it comes to that. The systems, as currently implemented, were developed in a low bandwith Internet era. This evolution of piracy was known about and expected by those in the business.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123798094#Comment_123798094

Every Everton and United match is our household requirement too:)

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

A few weeks ago my local publican was moaning about the likes of "d firestick" being a thorn in rural pubs sides. People who didn't have sky sports etc would regularly go and watch a big match in the pub of a Sunday afternoon and for big European nights. And to be fair he has a point. I mean, sky isn't exactly cheap for publicans, it's absolutely extortionate. Now I took his point, but at the same time we were literally both watching Liverpool vs Arsenal on a firestick on a side TV, (Not the pubs main TV).

larchielads

reminds me of an experience i had a few years before iptv took off. Was in a pub one sat evenin and Anthony Joshua was fightin ppv that nite the guy behind the bar told one of his customers to who ordered the fight to go home and get his sky box and hook it up in the pub for everyone to watch the fight and gave yer man a few free pints for his troubles 😀

Nowso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123801345#Comment_123801345

every everton game is my needs . liverpool watched by someone else

other than the dodgy box - peacock and a tv sub that has usa like direct tv and you can use that either ! Just saying

IfOnlyIfOnly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123798292#Comment_123798292

Scare tactics. I'd bet my left nut that research paper was funded by some media company with interests in seeing dodgy boxes go away.

I'd find it hard to believe someone can embed malware into a firestick you bought in a shop that is only connected to your television, albeit on your Wifi network, that can somehow jump itself into your computer or tablet or phone without you directly plugging the firestick into these devices.

I'm sure if there was malware, it could detect vulnerabilities in your home network and maybe then go looking for an attack vector through that information but it's highly unlikely this is going to occur in my opinion. The people selling these services are making a killing and just one sniff or one iota of evidence that their service is infecting people will kill their business overnight.

Regarding the app you download being intertwined with malware, be it for mining, a RAT or a password sniffer - Same principle applies, if it's detected, business dies overnight. Believe me, it would be detected because the people in the know are not silly enough to not check the illegal services their taking advantage of before using them to their full capability. I, for one, checked my service from head to toe and found no irregularities.

(All of the above is in regards to a person buying a firestick from a trusted vendor, not off DoneDeal)

dxhound2005

Your theory would be of interest to the NCSC. Let them know.

https://www.ncsc.gov.ie/

ArrBee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123804958#Comment_123804958

Sure, it's possible that the research is biased.
Maybe you can have a read and make up your own mind?
https://www.mdpi.com/1999-5903/15/10/325

The testing involved is more aimed at the infrastructure that supplies the the feeds than the client.

My own take away is that they are likely overstating the risk by setting the bar low for a positive detection.
But there is a risk. And I would believe it is greater than the normal background risk

I don't agree with the logic of "why would they do it, it will piss off their customers".
1st issue I see with that is who is "they"? There are many off them in the supply chain. From the people who reskin apps (and add who knows what to them) and make them available only as a direct apk through to proxy resellers of resellers who can put anything into the server side.
If I detected an issue today, who would I tell that would make a financial impact on the supplier(s)?

dubrov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123805364#Comment_123805364

That research seemed to look at dodgy free websites with pirated streams. This does not equal IPTV and the same could apply to the multitude of other dodgy websites that promise free stuff and have no reputation to protect.

There is quite a lot of competition in the paid IPTV provider space. Those providers with good reputations get the lion's share of subscribers.

Obviously a hacked app presents a risk if not provided by a reputable provider. There are plenty of good reputable IPTV apps out there though