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FI Charts ( T120+ onwards) Autumn 2023 **READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭mcburns07




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    It's far too early to open a dedicated thread, all we know is that it's going to get cooler and the Atlantic won't be in full conveyer belt mode. Right now I'm not even thinking snow or ice, it's far too early for that, we could end up getting nowhere or stuck in no mans land or we could get loads of white gold in about a weeks time. The entire scenario could also just disappear so until we get a handle on what is going to happen the technical chat will remain here for now. I have not opened any winter threads yet as it is still autumn but the 120 hours thread will obviously be the first winter thread to be opened and I'll probably do that over the weekend if the models are still looking most interesting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 873 ✭✭✭pureza


    I haven't seen the ECM yet

    But the GFS OP tonight is as wrong as Mozz Bell for what it's worth



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    Any new updates??



  • Registered Users Posts: 10 David1


    Yes I was thinking the same thing, very quite in here.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭Widdensushi




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,523 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Weather has taken a step to the side for me with the events today in Dublin so I'll give a very brief overview from what I've seen but others may provide a better one.

    We are none the wiser on what could be happening. Scandi tries to develop by Monday/Tuesday with a cold easterly flow just on the other side of the North Sea whilst there's a shortwave that develops into a trough near Ireland. Several of the deterministic or operational runs have been showing this trough blowing up and bringing mild air into the UK & Ireland in spite of the high latitude blocking. Some runs show it undercutting and give a snow event for the UK but mostly cold rain for Ireland as the country never gets enough cold air to begin with, the Wicklow mountain peaks would probably get wintriness however.

    The ensemble means, especially the ECM, are still strongly suggesting the low will undercut and a northerly/northeasterly will follow with high pressure retrogressing to Greenland and the North Atlantic by early December.

    It's a complicated mess but anyway, that's about as much detail as I can give at this point in time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly




  • Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭bazlers


    MTC spoke about an energy peak roughly occuring next week i would have thought. Not seeing much in the extended forecast yet that would represent this peak energy like a rapidly deveoping low pressure.

    Would this peak energy be the cause of this shortwave deleloping in to a trough and then blowing up so to speak or how does this peak energy dissipate itself?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10 David1




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  • Registered Users Posts: 873 ✭✭✭pureza


    Warmer sea surface temperature would be a a contributing factor

    But somehow I think an SW blowing up in to a dart board low traversing Ireland NW to SE is extremely unlikely



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    The way I see it is the charts past few days are a tease, we hit a high point on Tuesday, charts were fairly underwhelming yesterday but much more down to earth and realistic. It's still only November and the seas around us are very warm compared to what they would be in January etc. It does look like things will become cooler over the next 2 weeks but any cooling will be greatly modified due to our geography and the fact winter doesn't start for another week. I am hoping that what we have seen over the past few days is a tease, we may go back to mild Atlantic weather after the 1st week of December but when the time is right I am hoping we see a proper cold spell with fun and games end of December and into January.

    What is encouraging right now is it's only November and already there is talk of sleet, snow, ice, frost etc and the continent is cooling down very quickly so early into the season.

    Serious cold already well into Scandinavia and eastern Europe, this is something we don't usually see till mid way through December or possibly later.

    If we can keep that cold pool going through December and into January, if and when we do get a proper easterly later in the winter, the depth of cold we could tap into by mid January would be fairly impressive considering the depth of cold is already impressive given that it's only November.

    Back to this mornings GFS and we are still on course for about a week of chilly weather and not much in the way of precipitation. There is a definite warming trend towards the end of week 1 of December with the Atlantic making a possible comeback. I hope this is only a taste of what's to come further down the line into winter.

    Some of the GFS members do give a slight snow risk mainly in the form of showers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭pauldry


    The 6c max and 2c min for Sligo is gone to 8c max and 4c mins today. Even up to 10c at times.

    Not too bothered this side of Xmas. Later in the season if they show -6c in FI the reality might be zero. Don't know why they always show the charts too cold (and too windy in storms). Are there no realists doing the forecasts or is it all for clickbait?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭compsys


    This question always comes up every year.

    The charts definitely seem to tease us with cold weather in winter far more than they tease us with hot weather in summer.

    And when they show really hot weather in summer it kind of feels like there's a 50/50 chance that it'll actually happen. Whereas the cold and snow only seems to come to fruition 10% of the time in winter. If even.

    Perhaps is it because some of use obsess over the longer-term winter charts more than the summer ones so we notice it more? Or is it something about the models themselves?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,500 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    We still have some evolution to go through yet on this in the next couple of days but the path to noticeable cold has become a lot clearer.

    This afternoon's ICON for example showing the type of evolution I'd be looking for by day 5 with the shortwave in the Greenland/Iceland Corridor dropping south and phasing with the low pressure just off Iberia. This would drag in the much colder air from the east.

    The forecasting of this on the models can be fragile but I'm quietly confident we'll get a big change in our weather in the next 6 - 10 days.

    There are varieties of the same evolution across the models some colder than others.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    ECM looks primed to unleash proper cold

    Come on now, come to fruition!.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Nice!



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,523 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    UKV 15z was teasing a significant area of snow over the west and southwest of Ireland for Wednesday. Just for fun. Charts like this pointless at this point in time - we are far from being able to nail down how exactly the pattern will be and the behaviour of the shortwave. Couldn't resist showing though.

    Edit: Oops, Nacho got there before me! :P

    Also yes ECM was a cracker, at least towards the end. It's absolutely locked in. Cold just building and building to the northeast.

    Post edited by sryanbruen on


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Carlsberg don't do the perfect winter synoptics,but if they did that big purple blob to the north east on the ECM would make its way towards us! Of course the next run will inevitably be less exciting, but it's nice to have this distraction all the same given current events.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,278 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    This would be some start to the winter!



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,839 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    Over a numer of days now the ECM and other models are definetly building the colder trend. E to NW to N as we go into next weekend after a gradual cooling down next week and seeing a few disturbances in the mix also with some breezy days and possibly a bit windy on the coasts from time to time. Going to be hearing about windchill again soon by the looks of it as the Northerly airflow gets established. Looking more likely that by the end of the week seeing temperatures slow to climb into the low single digits after some areas getting a fairly hard frost. A bit of white on mountains quite possible, will be seeing closer to the time the chance of wintry precipitation to lower levels. Eastern Europe and Northern Europe looks like seeing increasing snow cover over the coming week, all the better for coling down any Easterly winds over such a long land fetch. Wouldent be surprised to seeing Northern counties with white mountains over next weekend and maybe a bit down to lower levels if we keep seeing charts like tonights.

    Great to see the drier weather of late continuing out to +240hrs, precipitaion definetly at times but a lot less than we have seen for the last couple of months.




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭pauldry


    Certainly a cold spell in the offing but as with many cold spells there won't be snow much even if those charts show it. They always do and then there's sleet and rain. Maybe a bit of snow in a few spots inland and certainly more exciting than many a pre Xmas period but it's like your BF or GF saying they will never cheat again on you with these weather models.



  • Registered Users Posts: 873 ✭✭✭pureza


    Definite air of 2010 (except not as cold yet) if you pardon the pun from next Friday on tonight's ECM

    Showers would be getting wintry and high ground would be getting white in the East




  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    Ecm decent enough for later next week. All model ensembles favouring a slow return to less cold conditions the following week. ECM clusters signal a move toward a more Atlantic influence from 10 days time (bottom image).

    Plenty of variables at play between now and then to be even certain what is to come in 5-7 days time. Met forecast for Wed-Fri period suggesting ❄️ for some perhaps


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭bazlers


    For me UKMO seems to be the quickest way to cold from Scandinavia when the cold is still intensifying. I hope it is correct !!



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    The problem for us is there's nothing in the background to sustain blocking over Greenland, so with heights weakening there it's only a matter of time before the Atlantic starts to get a look in. I really hope it's a temporary return, that we are not going back to several weeks in a row of Altantic influence, but it can't be ruled out given we are in an el nino. Still hopefully some places will see snow later this week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    Yes. It all comes down to that mid week low really. In the UKMO it is a little further south and pulls in the colder air behind it, while on other output the low stalls over Ireland and Britain and little shortwave features appear to our north and west, staving off any push of colder air. By Thursday,the UKMO sets up a longer cold spell. Unsurprisingly, based on the UKMO, the UK Met Office says the UK will experience cold conditions up to and including Dec 9th.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/long-range-forecast


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    GFS brings that midweek low further south allowing colder air to be pulled in. 12z and 18z (bottom)


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    Gfs mean is bringing the midweek low further south so the op run isn't going off on one. This has resulted in a much colder run.

    The beginning of the following week has other systems tracking further south on the op run. These slider lows could lead to wintry falls on their northern edge. Ultimately, the midweek low will dictate the longevity and severity of the upcoming colder spell of weather.


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



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  • Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭bazlers


    Excellent analysis wolf. Small margins with this low deciding future conditions.



This discussion has been closed.
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