Is there any reason left not to go smart meter?

DrPhilG

New day/night compatible smart meters are almost here. Day/night tariffs will now be possible on them, but the attractive ones are all but gone.

I'm about to come off the hallowed ground of the Energia D/N 7.9c tariff and as much as it pains me, I think I might be best to request a smart meter now.

Mod Additions for reference:

RM107 Meter Read guide:

ESB Networks How to Read Your Smart Meter

RM108, Day Night Meter Read guide

ESB Networks How to Read Your Day/Night Smart Meter

Screen Breakdowns:

OBIS code name, in order it appears on RM107 meter

1.0.0 Current time - day/month/year; hour: minute

1.8.0 - (A+) - Sum of tariffs for consumed energy (1.8.1+1.8.2)

1.8.1 - (A+T1) - The component of energy consumed at night rate

1.8.2 - (A+T2) - The component of energy consumed at the daily rate

1.8.3 - (A+T3) - The component of energy consumed at peak rate

Screen Test

2.8.0 - (A-) - Sum of tariffs for energy supplied (produced) to the network (2.8.1+2.8.2)

3.8.0 - (R+) - Consumed reactive energy (+Q) component

4.8.0 - (R-) - The reactive power (-Q) component produced

OBIS code name, in order it appears on RM108 meter

1.0.0 Current time - day/month/year; hour: minute

1.8.0 - (A+) - Sum of tariffs for consumed energy (1.8.1+1.8.2)

1.8.2 - (A+T2) - The component of energy consumed at the daily rate

1.8.1 - (A+T1) - The component of energy consumed at night rate

Screen Test

2.8.0 - (A-) - Sum of tariffs for energy supplied (produced) to the network (2.8.1+2.8.2)

3.8.0 - (R+) - Consumed reactive energy (+Q) component

4.8.0 - (R-) - The reactive power (-Q) component produced

TerraSolis

I'm in the same boat with the Energia Tariff. I put in my smart meter prioritization request to ESBN about 10 days ago. Yet to hear anything back however.

(I say I, I already have a smart meter, I look after my family's farm energy for them too).

I haven't stumbled across any reasons not to anyway. Keen to be paid for actual exports rather than deemed now.

idc

For day/night tariff will you not be pushed onto a 24 hr tariff for the first month while meter calibration occurs ?

SD_DRACULA

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058311315/is-there-any-reason-left-not-to-go-smart-meter

Yes, the reason is 33/15c d/n offer from flogas, no smart meter will come close that but there's a pinergy smart tariff with 6c for 2-3 hours a night but you'd want 20+ kwh battery for winter as the day rates are brutal.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121043137#Comment_121043137

I have a 20kWh battery, so I can live with an extortionate day rate. Only time I'd need it is to cook Boxing Day dinner and the very rare occasion that I'd need a full car charge from near flat.

The Flogas offer isn't around currently or I'd snap it up.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042995#Comment_121042995

Esbn can't change your tariff, so that's why DN get special smart meters.

Meter comes calibrated, possibly a bad term, but possibly test for steady readings before allowing a switch from DN to a Smart tariff

idc

Its not esbn forcing you. If you ask to move to smart meter while on day/night you have no choice until they supply smart day/night meters. Due to the 30 day calibration test of how good your connection is, you would be put on 24hr for 30 days.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121043853#Comment_121043853

But they're supplying smart D/N meters from next month, and there's reports you can't actually get a D/N meter installed at the moment because they've no non smart versions

3DataModem

I got a smart meter with D/N tariff capability a few months ago.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121045281#Comment_121045281

What mcc are you on? I bet it's not mcc02

Gooser14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121045281#Comment_121045281

What's the RM code on the meter? Is it RM108?

ECO_Mental

I think if you have Solar PV and or an EV and maybe a battery then I think you need one....its different for everybody but in my case but I am loosing by not having one.

Lost PV export I have lost about €400 here in actual FIT export charges... (€250 EI estimate vs actual of around €660)

Lost use of night time boost rate to charge MY EV, 14kWh for the 2 hour window at at saving of 8.9cent per day. Over the year this could be worth between €200-300 per year to me. Could shift more stuff to this time maybe to increase this.

Given that EI smart rates are the same as their non smart rates I am loosing out on €500-600 not have a smart meter....I've been looking to get one for over a year now, I have a D/N meter so I am down the list unfortunately

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121045709#Comment_121045709

No idea.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121046198#Comment_121046198

Check your bills, It is usually up in the top right beside your MPRN number. You are likely on a smart tariff that emulates what your previous DN tariff was. But that does not make it a DN tariff as you cannot switch to any other DN tariffs.

The DN compatible smart meters haven't been started to be installed yet.

SD_DRACULA

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121043159#Comment_121043159

Have you called them to check? I spoke to them earlier this month and they said they said didn't expect it to go away anytime soon.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049855#Comment_121049855

It's gone as far as I can see.

DrPhilG

An update...

I am now officially out of contract and paying about 45/25 per unit which is galling.

Energia have told me (rightly or wrongly) that even after the D/N compatible smart meters go in, they will not be offering D/N tariffs to customers. They will let existing customers see out their contract, but won't be offering another one afterwards. They said that this is the direction that the CRU and all suppliers are moving in.

ESB have told me that I'm on the priority list for the new rollout starting tomorrow (Sep 1st) but they can't give me a date yet. Energia also said that they can't request one but I have to wait for the rollout.

So for now, I'll have to suck it up. The current D/N tariffs aren't good enough to justify signing up and being hit with a €50 escape fee, and I can't take the Pinergy smart tariff yet.

Even if/when I do take that tariff, I can only add about 10kWh to the battery overnight because of the limitations of the Solis 6kW inverter. In December/January that's unlikely to get me through the day so there are some painful bills ahead.

The other 10 months of the year are fine though. I'll be able to get through the day without paying any day rate, and I'll get well paid for my then copious export.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054135#Comment_121054135

Another option is the energia smart EV plan, 10.1c for the first 1000kwh, and then 11.7 thereafter. and you get 4 hrs instead of 3.

Energia will be able to organise that meter swap now, but, thats the end of DN for you.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054266#Comment_121054266

I considered it, but it would only really benefit me in the winter months where the extra hour would give me another 3kWh a day.

For the rest of the year I'd be paying double for all the power I do use compared to the Pinergy option, and I would blow through that 100kWh per period (not per month) in a heartbeat when you take car charging into account.

As for replacing the meter, I did ask Energia if they could get me a regular smart meter ASAP and they said no.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054276#Comment_121054276

You asked the wrong question re the regular smart meter, If you were to sign up for that smart plan, you would have got one fitted, thats how championc and unkel have arranged theirs. Also I never trust anything they say, different person different answer!

My Dad is coming out of contract soon too, possibly will wait it out for now, maybe these price reductions will eventually come!

DrPhilG

True, maybe if I call them up and ask to sign up to one of their smart plans they'll magically get me the meter within a week. But it'll cost me €50 to then get out of the contract afterwards.

eggy81

Does a smart meter make any difference at all when on pre pay electricity

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054519#Comment_121054519

No, the prepay meter is after the smart meter.

What sort of rates do you have on prepay?

Jakey Rolling

I remain perplexed as to why a special D/N Smartmeter is necessary - by design, a smartmeter is going to report usage with a granularity of say 5mins, so your supplier has the information to see your usage during the normal D/N hours, and bill you accordingly. Why would the meter need to be any different?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057782#Comment_121057782

It's to do with how they record data and hardware limitations

A smart meter follows daylight savings, so the hours of the various rates don't change

A D/N meter is always on UTC, which is why the night rate times change twice a year

A smart meter only allows data to be recorded into one register at a time. They have 3 registers, day, night and peak, which follow daylight savings

The registers are needed in case there's an issue sending the data to ESBN, if the mobile signal isn't good enough for example. It's a requirement of smart meters that they can offer an equivalent tariff to the existing meters until a customer adopts a smart tariff

For the current smart meter to record a night rate equivalent to the current D/N meter, it would need to record data into a Night register which follows daylight savings and one which doesn't, which isn't supported

The new "Smart D/N" meters just have a different configuration where the day and night registers don't observe daylight savings

DrPhilG

But @the_amazing_raisin can the new day/night compatible smart meters do it all?

24hr, d/n AND smart tariffs?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121058495#Comment_121058495

Sort of, I think

The document below might explain it better

https://cdn.rmdservice.com/media/docs/default-source/governance/igg/2022/november-2022-igg/dr1225-mcc02-meter-exchanges.pdf?sfvrsn=8bf61215_1

From what I can tell the new Smart D/N meter will have two registers which record the same data as a regular D/N meter

But they say it can be remotely configured later to be the same as an MCC16 smart meter

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057823#Comment_121057823

Energia have told me (rightly or wrongly) that even after the D/N compatible smart meters go in, they will not be offering D/N tariffs to customers. They will let existing customers see out their contract, but won't be offering another one afterwards. They said that this is the direction that the CRU and all suppliers are moving in.

If there are no plans to offer DN rates anymore why are they installing them?

Plenty of people live in apartments that are all electric, who can't install heat pumps, solar or installation, which have storage heating. If they loose DN tarrifs their properties will be even more expensive to heat.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121058951#Comment_121058951

Devils advocate here:

Energy suppliers no longer are required to offer all tariffs

Waterpower for instance currently don't do any smart tariffs

If you are on a DN you possibly won't be able to renew but you can stay on the non discounted "standard rate" eg they can't kick you off.

Electric Ireland is one of the "suppliers of last resort" used when a energy company goes bust, they may be always required to offer something.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121058951#Comment_121058951

I suspect that suppliers will still be required to offer D/N tariffs, but they won't be offering any discounts or cashback.

It'll just be a variable rate tariff without a discount

If you look at the new supplier, YouNo (or whatever they're called), it's hard to see how their service is remotely useful without a smart meter, but they still offer standard meter tariffs

I think they'd prefer you to switch to a smart meter but are required to offer standard tariffs

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121058996#Comment_121058996

There hundreds of thousands of properties built around night rate electric storage heating. The energy suppliers should be forced by the CRU to offer night rate till these people have a viable alternative, instead the CRU doesn't want DN tariffs.

So the choice for these people is to pay a fortune to stay on the most expensive DN tarrif or pay even more on a smart meter. You think with the amount of wind turbines that have to be idled during the night that they would be driving more people to DN plans, the dream of smart devices turning on when we have excess capacity is a long way off.