Why I'll say no to a united ireland

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070400#Comment_122070400

Here is the other 4 Wards. See the percentage of British and NI

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070403#Comment_122070403

It is NOT the Irish flag. I don't know what flag it is, but it isn't a tricolour. This flag has the colours of a Union Jack but it isn't a Union Jack is it?

Edit: Had a closer look at the photo and I realise it is a tricolour folded over. Apologies for that.
Still doesn't mean that the club is responsible for it being there or means it is a 'Nationalist Youth Club'
Loads of flags of all identities go up in NI outside buildings as the UVF one at Windsor Park shows.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070444#Comment_122070444

You had a go at Dowcow over many pages for not proving about a tricolour flag outside the Youth club in Castlewellan. You called him / her a liar, but fair enough you apologised when Downcow shows you flags outside the youth club.

Given the youth club is in a 90% nationalist town, and given the youth club was set up by the Catholic church (who are still on the board), and given it has a tricolour in front of it, and given there are some subtle hints to its ethos / the community it draws from on its facebook page, do you really think there is the remotest chance it could be a unionist club? Or that unionists would join it rather than join some other club?

If I was a northern unionist I would not feel comfortable joining a club that had a tricolour in front of it, given the tricolour was placed on the coffin of the pIRA Garda killer only a few weeks ago, and knowing that many if not most Northern nationalists agree with SF's O'Neill when she said there was "no alternative" to the sectarian slaughter of Protestants. If I was a northern unionist I would see a tricolour as a very unwelcoming, if not threatening, flag to see in the UK jurisdiction.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070707#Comment_122070707

downcow claimed there were ‘many flags’ that is one that has no proven connection to the club nor does it prove the lie that it is a ‘nationalist’ youth club.
Not proven either is his 100% claims, see census data.

BTW you are doing some exaggerating yourself. How can a town of 2782 people be 90% Nationalist if 17% identify as British and 29% as NI.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070752#Comment_122070752

I am not sure (nor do I care very much ) if Downcow said there was "many" flags in Downparick or not or just if there was one near the youth club. I think he/she said there was one near the youth club. As it turns out, you spent pages saying there was not, but he has posted showing photos showing a tricolour flag right in front of the club.

As regards Castlewellan, Downcow wrote " Unionists, under attack from the IRA, left all areas of the town, except one little street which had a significant buffer around it of the state primary School, State high School, Orange Hall, and Church of Ireland. Now the IRA’s successful cleansing of the unionist community has meant that the two schools have subsequently closed, but the buildings and eyes performed a very important task at the height of the troubles to keep the IRA and their young testosterone-fuelled wannabes away from these houses. It wasn’t so easy for them to break windows or push faeces through the letterboxes as their usual ‘I Ran Away’ tactics would have required a tiny tiny piece of courage in case they had got caught crossing the buffer - courage they clearly did not possess."

As regards your query about the demographics of a town, a lot depends if you are talking about the town centre itself or the outskirts of the town etc.

Now, stop deflecting. Downcow said "I do not know of any town in Northern Ireland that sustained decades of loyalist intimidation, that changed it from a mixed town to a 100% unionist town." and then he / she asked " Of course there are dozens and dozens of towns where nationalist done this to unionists but I cannot think of one the other way round – maybe you can help us? FrancieBrady, can you name any?

No, I thought not.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070880#Comment_122070880

The 5 wards I posted the details of are the ‘town’.
Go on Francis, tell us what data you are basing your 90% Nationalist on?

*downcow claimed there were many flags originally. He was asked to prove this. So far he has shown 1 flag who we don’t know who put it there. The allegation (unproven) is that the community centre put it there so it is a ‘nationalist’ youth centre.
If I claimed the IFA was a UVF football association because there were UVF flags outside it, would I be right?

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070880#Comment_122070880

"Downcow said there was "many" flags in Downparick or not or just if there was one near the youth club. I think he/she said there was one near the youth club. As it turns out, you spent pages saying there was not, but he has posted showing photos showing a tricolour flag right in front of the club."

The picture posted is of Castlewellan not Downpatrick. (But at least this time he hasn't mistakenly posted a picture of a sports centre)

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070896#Comment_122070896

this is just crazy. I can assure you there are no shortage of tricolours in and around the youth club. Here is the building directly opposite - it’s that inclusive sporting organisation – I guess we don’t know who put that flag up either 🙄. The clue might be on the sign 🙂

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071634#Comment_122071634

😁😁 Thats the GAA

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071007#Comment_122071007

I think we have done that one to death, but I demonstrated clearly that the Downpatrick youth club is based in the building that I posted the picture of. I even got an email from the Youth club confirming that, which I posted on here.
What is amazing is the ducking and diving that nationalists and Republicans do to try and paint themselves as snowy white. I have no doubt this would continue in a united Ireland and we would continually be told we were imagining any problem.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071642#Comment_122071642

well spotted francie. You are a genius. Who do you think Put that flag up?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071658#Comment_122071658

Nationalist Youth Club members?

You are destroying any credible arguments you had, if any.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070896#Comment_122070896

I always hate to disappoint you francie. You say “downcow claimed there were many flags originally. He was asked to prove this. So far he has shown 1 flag who we don’t know who put it there.”

The White wall on the left in the picture is the perimeter wall of the Youth club. It’s a bit fuzzy but if you doubt my credibility and think this is not the youth club, then just ask and I will demonstrate it beyond doubt.

and just to be clear, at no time did I suggest the youth club had put up any of the flags, quite the contrary. I know the guy very well who used to run the youth club and there is not a more sound decent guy in the town. I am quite sure he is disgusted that the youth club he developed is surrounded by tricolours

You should know no francie that with me you will get honesty and integrity. That doesn’t mean I don’t make the odd mistake or have nothing to learn, but I will not mislead

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071719#Comment_122071719

you claimed the flags validated your labelling of a youth club as ‘nationalist’

None of these photos prove that. Flags are put up all over NI not just in Castlewellan.

Can you validate your other claims about a town with 17% identifying as British has no ‘unionists’?

Once again your exceptionalism and victimhood is exposed

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071719#Comment_122071719

You should know no francie that with me you will get honesty and integrity. 

You couldn’t possibly have typed that with a straight face.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071742#Comment_122071742

where are you getting the information that 17% of the town identify as British. That is absurd.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071757#Comment_122071757

the census 2011

I posted the 5 of the wards above from the 2021 census.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071785#Comment_122071785

and how does that even remotely demonstrate the make up of the town of Castlewellan?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071956#Comment_122071956

??
Are you claiming that 17% of the town’s 2782 residents (in 2011) who identify as British are NOT Unionists?
Or that there are no Unionists among the 29% who identify as Northern Irish?

That would have to be the case to validate your claim

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071990#Comment_122071990

there is nothing in the data you present that identifies the town of Castlewellan. You’re talking about electoral wards and district electoral areas. These do not identify Castlewellan on its own, hence your skewed results.

I guess you know that anyway.
What is really interesting? Is why you want to deceive people and pretend that Castlewellan was not cleansed of unionists – is it an embarrassing reality and something your community cannot come to terms with?

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072066#Comment_122072066

So what is the population of the "town of Castlewellan"?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072066#Comment_122072066

what are you on about?

Slideways

Anytime I think the world has gone off the tracks I come into this thread and see Downcow and Francis arguing with Francie around and around the garden and I know all is normal

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071652#Comment_122071652

Ballymote Sports Centre: A council-run leisure centre open to the general public with rooms for hire by any organisation. Indeed the PSNI have previously hired it for a function.

Not your finest moment on here Downcow.

Anyway enough of that. What I am interested in is your bizarre obsession with flags. We can all find areas in NI that may be festooned with particular flags. You seem to be on a mission to emphasise the sheer horror that the tricolour induces in you. As you know, unlike most others on this thread, I am familiar with the area in question.

What is your opinion of how Clough appears to an outsider? (Clough is the next town north of Castlewellan for anyone not familiar with the area). Clough is "famous" locally for the flying of a Union Jack from a pole that is 100 foot high!! (I kid you not … google it). Clough also "proudly" flies UVF flags on their main street and when their roundabout was given a beautiful sculpture it was soon defaced by having a sash permanently painted around the main human character. The local Eurospar had “NO SURRENDER” painted on a wall in the car park and the proprietors were informed that it would be in their best interests not to remove it.

Now being honest I used to feel a little uncomfortable driving through Clough. Now I am mature enough to realise that the striking scene that everyone who drives through that town is exposed to is the work of a few insecure, cowardly idiots (a 100 foot pole!! 🤣) and I have a little chuckle.

I don't think banning flags will get us anywhere but maybe a ban on flags apart from on designated buildings may be something that we could agree on?

How do you feel about Israeli flags? Palestinian flags? USA flags? I saw all 3 being flown up North recently. What about the George Cross, the flag of England? You may be interested to know that it is flying outside Murphy's pub on Market Street in the Centre of Downpatrick and has been for some time.

You seem to be constantly moaning about the flag of my country to the extent that you will sweepingly judge an area and its people when a tricolour is spotted nearby. You post pictures of the tricolour like it's some sort of "gotcha!" Do you not see how offensive this may be to some? I do understand this to a certain extent given your background but do you not think it's time to get over it?

So many young people from NI who identify as British don't have a problem with the flag. Maybe it's time you joined them??

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072947#Comment_122072947

Interesting you claim that "So many young people from NI who identify as British don't have a problem with the (tricolour) flag."

I happen to know more than a few in N.I. who would identify as British and I do not think any of them are that keen on the tricolour, given that it has been hijacked by extremist Republicans, and what it represents.

Even a few weeks ago everyone from the Garda Commissioner to Pearse Doherty to Michelle O'Neill knew of the sinister side of the tricolour when they condemned the placing of the flag on the coffin of Garda killer Pearse McCauley. That was something new as I never remember Republican (SF) leaders before condemning the placing of the tricolour on the coffin of a Republican. McCauley was "spot on" in S.F.'s eye years after he killed and was jailed for the murder of a Garda - in fact he was given a standing ovation at a S.F. Ard Fheis, which itself is no stranger to tricolours. But I suppose in SF's eye, attacking your wife is different….

Up north I think SF and Republicans have a major job to get non-nationalists to regard the Irish tricolour as a normal flag in a political context when it has been long associated with pIRA funerals etc. As someone else said, the IRA draped it over the coffins of people who murdered members of their community. That alone really tarnishes it. Having it flown outside the (catholic established and with catholic clergy still as patrons) Youth centre in a town which is 90% catholic means that in reality no unionists will use that youth club. They will feel safer and more at home in other clubs, which is ok. Everyone to their own as long as they do not harm others.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073020#Comment_122073020

Which has nothing to do with downcow labelling children because a tricolour is flown on a lampost outside their Youth Club.

Who had the flag 'flown' on the public footpath? The Youth Club?
Is this the latest allegation or insinuation?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073126#Comment_122073126

Downcow's point, and it is going back a month or two, was that the Ice skating centre at Dundonald was more inclusive because it attracts people from all areas. It is N. Ireland's only, in fact the island of Ireland's only, public Olympic size ice rink. People and clubs from towns like Downpatrick ( 90% Catholic) have been known to go to it. Contrast that to Casement Park in West Belfast: do unionists really go there? We all know the answer to that. Some pages ago you were able to come up with two Protestants who played GAA for Monaghan. It was found in the media that they both suffered sectarian abuse, as did a Protestant (who had uncles at one stage in the UDR) but who played GAA in Fermanagh.

You said there was no tricolour outside the club in Downpatrick. Downcow proved you wrong, he/ she even posted a picture. Now you ask who had the flag 'flown' there? I would suspect it was locals, same as locals put the flag on front of the GAA club in the photo in post 8469. You blame the British for almost everything, you cannot blame the British for that.

Incidentally, seeing as you are talking about the placing of the tricolour, would you agree or not with the placing of the tricolour on Pearse McCauley's coffin? It seems Pearse D. and Michelle O'N thought that wrong because he was a wife attacker. They had no problem giving him a standing ovation at the SF Ard Fheis when he was just a Garda killer. They had no problem with the tricolour flag on the coffins of whom some would see as sectarian killers. Interesting you bring up the topic of "who placed the tricolour flag" etc.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073244#Comment_122073244

The tricolour is on the public highway it is not on the building.
It has as much relevance therefore to UVF flags outside Windsor Park.

If anyone here suggested or alleged a UVF coonection to the IFA we know who’d be first to reject that allegation.

No such problem when it comes to labelling children or a Youth Club.

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073020#Comment_122073020

It's a flag Francis. It's the flag of our country but it's only a flag. You may not like where it's displayed at times but the problem is that if you don't regard the tricolour as a "normal flag in a political context" after it being associated with certain funerals then you must also have the same regard for the union flag or you may be accused of hypocrisy.

Here's a picture of the funeral of a British soldier who was guilty of the sectarian murder of a young man with learning difficulties by shooting him in the back. If you are true to your previous statement then you must declare that the flag here is also "tarnished" (your term)

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073522#Comment_122073522

 If you are true to your previous statement then you must declare that the flag here is also "tarnished" (your term)

Be prepared for some copy-paste whattaboutery coupled with extreme mental gymnastics.