Why I'll say no to a united ireland

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122068404#Comment_122068404

Once again the victimhood is strong in this. Your state was segragating from it's inception downcow. It wasn't done by a paramilitary group, it was 'state' sanctioned.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122068404#Comment_122068404

feel free to do the same when you visit the various towns and town lands that suffered under state sanctioned terrorism….you know the same state terrorists you celebrate with ease. You know those testosterone fueled cowards that hid behind the guarantee of no real accountability for their actions, terrorize children and women, trash homes etc.
The usual ‘I Ran Away’ tactics would have required a tiny tiny piece of courage had they not had the uniform and state backing to hide behind - courage they clearly did not possess.

I doubt we’ll see any such contribution from you though you expect others to consider the same purely from your blinkered view.

“Us and them” is all you know and want to know.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122068736#Comment_122068736

I do think of individual massacres eg when I am ever in the village of loughinisland I do think of the horror of the people in that pub and the devastation to families. Of course there was also massive movement of entire communities by both sides in the early 70s.

I honestly can’t think of a single, originally mixed, rural town or village where nationalists were driven out by decades long campaign of unionist sectarianism and intimidation. I can name you dozens of mixed towns and villages that the nationalist community adopted the ‘we don’t want a n*g*r about the place’ attitude and drove every unionist out. It was a classic combined effort of murders, attempted murders, mobs at night outside houses, windows smashed, faeces and urines through letter boxes, verbal threats, school-kids abused daily, churches and schools attacked, homes fire-bombed, pubs attacked by mobs, ,etc, etc,
so when you rightfully enjoy a nice sandwich next time in beautiful Castlewellan, bear a thought for the pain of the unionist community who suffered all of the above, and more, and had to leave their generational homes.
And yes I regularly consider the pain caused by, billy wright, mad dog Adair, Martin Mcguiness, O’Neill family, etc

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069083#Comment_122069083

Do you have any data on this downcow?

The 2011 Census has this to say on the 2,782 people living in Castlewellan

54.31% indicated they had an Irish national identity, 29.58% said they had a Northern Irish national identity and 17.69% gave a British national identity (respondents could indicate more than one national identity).

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069083#Comment_122069083

Me, me, me, me.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122068404#Comment_122068404

Honestly, Downcow.....there's not a town of note in the North that doesn't have these stories. If we stopped to think about the lives affected by The Troubles every time we were going through a town impacted we wouldn't get very far.

I'm across into Derry today. I'm going to spend my time here enjoying the food and culture of the city, not reflecting on the Bloody Sunday victims.

I'm curious if that's how you would spend an afternoon in Derry though, given that is your expectation of anyone who stops in Castlewellan for lunch?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069395#Comment_122069395

I am not Downcow, but if it was me that was visiting Derry, I would think about how much money was spend on the last inquiry alone (over 200 million pounds sterling). I would think how little thought is given to the memory of the 2 policemen ( one Catholic and one Protestant) murdered by the IRA in Derry just before Bloody Sunday, and how there was no inquiry there. I would think of McGuinness, thought by some to be the gunman who fired the shot that sparked Bloody Sunday. I would then think of McGuinness in his later years after he turned, and I would remember all the other atrocities that claimed so many innocent lives (like the Claudy bombing). And in the border counties, I would think of all the villages and towns which used to be more mixed, but which are not so mixed now, due to extremist Republicans. I would think how many victims there never got inquiries and of all the untold stories of hardship.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069395#Comment_122069395

I could not possibly enter the bogside without a thought of the people who died that day and the chaos that happened that day.

Well, I do not know of any town in Northern Ireland that sustained decades of loyalist intimidation, that changed it from a mixed town to a 100% unionist town. Of course there are dozens and dozens of towns where nationalist done this to unionists but I cannot think of one the other way round – maybe you can help us?

downcow

Okay, let’s be clear in case there is any confusion. Maybe Irish/British is a better description than unionist/nationalist. of course all the polls tell us that many traditional Irish actually support the union and therefore I suppose you could call them unionist even though I don’t think that is how they would describe themselves.

As for data, I wouldn’t think that is available for the actual town of Castlewellan, but will include the hinterland, which still contains a significant unionist population.
I know of many people within one mile of Castlewellan who moved out for fear of their lives, but their roots and their heart is very much in Castlewellan, and therefore they moved the shortest distance possible to feel safer. Lots of people also moved 5 miles to the surrounding safer towns of Dundrum Clough and Newcastle, where the IRA did not have such a hold.
You may manage to dig up some quirk, and find someone you classify as a unionist, but it will be a quirk.
The last unionist household in Castlewellan left less than a year ago. The 99-year-old man died and his disabled daughter had to go to extended family for care. Never did one year go past since the early 70s, that he did not get his windows broken. The most recent attack took place two weeks before his death.

But sure, let’s all pretend this didn’t happen!

how could there possibly be a successful attempt at uniting Ireland until this history is accepted by what will be the dominant community. They need to realise what their brothers done when they were dominant over British people, if it is to be prevented in the future

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069511#Comment_122069511

how could there possibly be a successful attempt at uniting Ireland until this history is accepted by what will be the dominant community. They need to realise what their brothers done when they were dominant over British people, if it is to be prevented in the future

But I do accept the history of segregation.
I do accept that people were displaced all over the north via pogroms, burning out and intimidation and that both sides engaged in this.
Many displaced people still live here in my community in the south and never went back to their homes.

I do accept that many self-segregated too for safety, it is a hallmark of conflict/wars all over the world and throughout history. Many of those in tents that you were mocking the south about are 'displaced people' from other conflict/war areas.
I also accept the government of the sectarian statelet segregated people too.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069511#Comment_122069511

It doesn't include a big hinterland if there are only a grand total of 2782 people living there!

As for the general situation, loyalists obtained their towns in the first place by having the British expel the inhabitants to hell or Connacht.

jucko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069659#Comment_122069659

too true

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069659#Comment_122069659

It doesn't include a big hinterland if there are only a grand total of 2782 people living there!

Apparently none of the 17.69% who identify as British and the 29.58% who identify as Northern Irish are 'Unionist'.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069659#Comment_122069659

Down said "I do not know of any town in Northern Ireland that sustained decades of loyalist intimidation, that changed it from a mixed town to a 100% unionist town." and then he / she asked " Of course there are dozens and dozens of towns where nationalist done this to unionists but I cannot think of one the other way round – maybe you can help us?"

Instead of naming off one town where that happened, you go back hundreds of years and whinge "  loyalists obtained their towns in the first place by having the British expel the inhabitants to hell or Connacht."

What you have that level of hatred and bitterness and lack of balance, there will never be a U.I.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069744#Comment_122069744

Downcow says lots of things about his community that turn out not to be true (Nationalist Youth Centres? Tricolours flying?)

There are by the last census 492.1 (17.69% of 2782) people living in Castlewellan who identify as British only and 822 who identify as Northern Irish and we are being asked to believe none of these are Unionist.

Do you believe that Castlewellan is 100% Nationalist? Is the census wrong or is downcow exaggerating?

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069706#Comment_122069706

Not unionist enough, perhaps?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069796#Comment_122069796

Downcow gives a far more accurate and true depiction of N.I. of his areas than you, or any of the other Republican posters, certainly do. Downcow wrote " Unionists, under attack from the IRA, left all areas of the town, except one little street which had a significant buffer around it of the state primary School, State high School, Orange Hall, and Church of Ireland. Now the IRA’s successful cleansing of the unionist community has meant that the two schools have subsequently closed, but the buildings and eyes performed a very important task at the height of the troubles to keep the IRA and their young testosterone-fuelled wannabes away from these houses. It wasn’t so easy for them to break windows or push faeces through the letterboxes as their usual ‘I Ran Away’ tactics would have required a tiny tiny piece of courage in case they had got caught crossing the buffer - courage they clearly did not possess."

Downcow was right about the Youth centre in the Nationalist voting town ( set up the Catholic church and with some priests still on the board, although of course it gets six figure funding each year from the British government ).

Now, stop deflecting. Downcow said "I do not know of any town in Northern Ireland that sustained decades of loyalist intimidation, that changed it from a mixed town to a 100% unionist town." and then he / she asked " Of course there are dozens and dozens of towns where nationalist done this to unionists but I cannot think of one the other way round – maybe you can help us? FrancieBrady, can you name any?

No, I thought not.

droidman123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069974#Comment_122069974

They didnt to it to towns,they did it to the whole six counties when they were planted there

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069974#Comment_122069974

Look at the census, those identifying as British and NI live all over the town not in an enclave as described by downcow.

There is no 'Nationalist' youth centre in Castlewellan. No photos have been posted of tri-colours flying as promised.
There is no explanation as yet for the census data in what downcow claims is a town with NO unionists at all.

Loyalists intimidated and were involved in burning out nationalists and Catholics and in pogroms all over the north. Are you in denial of this? Is downcow?
BTW, I don't know of any town in the north that is 100% nationalist or unionist.
Do you?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070006#Comment_122070006

a few points francie about your post.
Firstly, I did not post you photos of the nationalist youth club in Castlewellan that is called the “ Castlewellan cross community youth club”, because I thought you were bored of photos. But since you ask, here it is complete with tricolour flying outside. There is absolutely no way that any young unionist would dare to walk down this street in the evening never mind enter the club. (i’ll address the other points in a separate post.)

Ps this youth club was used a couple of years ago as the polling centre, but only for one year and it was moved to the Catholic school at the other side of town following concern that unionists felt intimidated when entering the street to vote. That should give you a sense of how inclusive it is.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069999#Comment_122069999

I think you will find the nationalist population grew substantially across the six counties, so not a very good comparison with Castlewellan

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070060#Comment_122070060

So the building next to a lamppost is responsible for flags placed on that lampost?
That what you are saying here? This is Windsor Park…are we to conclude that the IFA is a Loyalist Football Association?

P.S. That doesn't look like a tricolour either.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070060#Comment_122070060

By the way:
As I had the census data open, I see that the area that Community Centre is in, is call the 'Slieve Croob J2' ward.
In the last census 34% said they were British or Northern Irish.
Not one of them, according to you are Unionists.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070111#Comment_122070111

In N.I, if a youth club was set up by the Catholic church, and the youth club is in a town that is 90% Catholic, and catholic clergy are still patrons of the club, then I think no unionists would frequent that particular club in that 90% catholic town.

You said Downcow was wrong about the tricolour outside the youth club: he / she is after posting a picture of it for you.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070271#Comment_122070271

But downcow says there are NO unionists in the town.
How would Unionists attend if there are none?
Catholic does not equal 'Nationalist'. That was an out and out lie and faux pas from downcow.

*And that ain't like no tricolour I ever saw tbh. It is NOT on the building either or even on the grounds.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070111#Comment_122070111

the level of whataboutery on this page over the last 24 hours is impressive, but this one takes the biscuit.
You had a go at me for not demonstrating flags outside Youth club in Castlewellan, so I presented the evidence to you. Let’s not deflect by opening up at debate about the inclusiveness or otherwise of Windsor Park.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070251#Comment_122070251

francie you are either ignorant or disingenuous. The Slieve croob ward takes in most of the areas that I just told you that the unionists moved out of Castlewellan and into eg Dundrum and Clough.
I have been busy this afternoon and have not thought of a way yet to demonstrate the facts about the makeup of Castlewellan, but I will get to it

downcow

You are now like Willie Fraser. Maybe it is an Italian flag 😂😂😂

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070403#Comment_122070403

Here is another one francie, maybe from a better angle. I guess this one is too welcome families from the Ivory Coast 😂

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070386#Comment_122070386

You said 'tricolours' (plural)

That is one flag on a public footpath and it is not a tricolour.