The 2023 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

dobman88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120939071#Comment_120939071

They had one of their worst seasons ever, just avoided relegation and he was given the road lol.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934154#Comment_120934154

If it's deluded people are saying Clifford is the best ever, then let's talk about the delusion of Dubin fans, when in his first couple of seasons, were saying Fenton was the best ever? The same guy who lived in Jack Barry's pocket for years, and who this year only emerged from his pocket after he left the field.... ye that Brian Fenton!

Pull the other one. This "best of all time" stuff is premature I agree, but with Clifford, it's based on him repeatedly doing things few others have had the ability to do, like Canning in hurling. When Fenton was being called the GOAT, is was nonsense, him being a consistent player in a team that would of won regardless, with or without him. And any half test he had, he failed.

So let's not even start to compare Fenton and Clifford, on any level. One is a well rounded consistent midfielder who often goes quite under real scrutiny, the other is a player capable of things few others have ever had the ability to do!

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931374#Comment_120931374

He's right to be honest. It's one of my big issues with Goughs calling of this. They often aren't for that much, and it goes on all the time!

But if he's looking for consistency on it, we'd barely have the ball in play the way it's played now 😂

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120939253#Comment_120939253

You had generally had loads of good commentary to contribute to the GAA world Blanch. Insightful comments. But you have let yourself down a bit over the past week with some of your comments. It's hard to understand why you cannot just celebrate your countys win, and reflect on a great performance in the final. But no, you just want to takes swings at other players and countiies - Kerry, Mayo, Clifford etc. When you think about it, there is no need for it at all. The rest of us are just waiting the long stretch until the league starts again (with a bit of club action in between to keep the appetite alive). But ye guys should be elated. Not giving digs.

On David Clifford. Great player. I made a comment before that if the greatest play ever was judged on their first 6 years at senior intercounty, I think he would rank at number one. From what I have seen anyway. But like many others have said, he hasn't enough seasons under his belt to be labeled the greatest ever of all time. But comments of putting medals on the table and medals in the back pocket mean nothing. The likes of Davy Byrne has 8 all Ireland medals (I think), and how many times has he got roasted - in the past 2 years anyway.

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933788#Comment_120933788

Wow, give Jack o Connor a Medal there

technocrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944215#Comment_120944215

Thanks for proving my point.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931270#Comment_120931270

Was exactly my thoughts when I watched the game back when I got home. To be expected from Jack. To congratulate us might mean accepting he made a balls of it.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931423#Comment_120931423

He was the best manager in the game I was told when they won it last year, and when he won it the last time out...

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931704#Comment_120931704

Bang of Leo Cullen off the decision tbh. It stood to him, and it stood to Dessie.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934191#Comment_120934191

At this point there's no inferiority complex there buck. A complete and utter dislike, but no inferiority.

I grew up in an era of the Meath/Dublin/Cork trinity, the Ulster wave in my formative years and then the second Ulster wave in my 20s. Kerry's noughties run was the only time they mattered, and they were still a shower.

Beating Kerry is obviously the most joyous of occasions in Gaelic football. How could it not be?

As regards the roll of honour, imagine how many ourselves, Galway, Mayo, Meath and Down would have if they spent most of the history of the championship careening through the juggernauts of Limerick, Tipperary, Clare and Waterford every summer. We're only 7 behind and I tell ya, the collective meltdown when we catch up is going to be beyond anything. I can't wait. The 5-in-a-row against them was special, but catching up to them... oooh... matron.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944802#Comment_120944802

Great post mate

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944802#Comment_120944802

I think there good chunk of Dublin's 31 AI's populated by non Dubs (Even Kerrymen and the like) up to around the 50's, or so that why Heffernan bringing in the Dublin identity was a sea change.

I don't know the facts of figures but maybe someone can tell me how many of those sort of AI teams there were? Obviously the later you go back the more prevalent it was.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944802#Comment_120944802

To me beating Kerry in an AI it is like winning two all irelands, they have all that pedigree/tradition etc, plus when Dublin win one it is one closer to Kerry's total of 38 - and one less Kerry could have won.

Thankfully the group stages that were introduced add some sort of fairness to the AI now. To have two of the better teams in the country each in the weakest provinces sort of makes it farcical IMO. Hopefully this the beginning of the provincials being phased out - bit by bit.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944961#Comment_120944961

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944975#Comment_120944975

You don't ever miss an opportunity to shine it, do you?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120945022#Comment_120945022

Which post in particular?

I remember I was a GAA Irish language do thing (done very well all sorts of speakers) Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh was at it - I think he went over time going on about his favourite players from each decade.

Anyway they were going back through the history of the GAA back through even further then that as well, another fella played audio of a played that played for Dublin in the 1920's/1930's or whatever - with the thickest Kerry accent you could could get. Won an All Ireland or two with Dublin. I nearly fell off me chair. As me heart sunk.

It wouldn't happen now I said to me-self! Most people these days probably would not even think of the make up of Dublin teams way back. As it is has faded from living memory now. And it is not really spoken about. But is just a fact.

As for the provincials comment am I wrong? They are farcical, even by the number of teams two many in Leinster, too few in Connacht and Munster - it is not just the lack of real competition.

Even Connacht only really means something to Sligo/Roscommon at this stage IMO. I can remember Sligo won it few years back and they did a sports documentary it was massive for them. But how often is it going to happen realistically? And do the provincials matter anymore given the format changes, all the way back since the back door.

People say Ulster is grand - competitive but the problem is they all play a very similar style copying each other (defensive counter attacking) which on occasion does not make for good viewing for some. So the contrast of styles v the Ulster side only really comes in the group stages now.

technocrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944802#Comment_120944802

AND in the meantime enjoy been 2nd best long may it continue :)

The_Kew_Tour

I think lot of early AI won by Dublin had lot Corkmen on it too.

Does not matter a jot though they are Dublins and that's that.

gormdubhgorm

Who do people think were the biggest overachievers this year and the biggest underachievers?

I think Derry have to go as the biggest overachievers so close to getting to an AI final. A team with a well drilled system a match for any side. With honourable mentions to Monaghan (playing to their last ounce as usual) and Westmeath who although not winning a game in the group series gave a great account of themselves.

The biggest underachievers have to be Kildare they even top Mayo/Galway/Tyrone IMO. Bit of disaster of a year for Kildare given the players that they have available to them etc. The group stages really showed how consistently inconsistent Kildare are.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120946062#Comment_120946062

Cork are biggest underachievers. Roscommon biggest overachievers.

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120946062#Comment_120946062

Ya Derry over achieved. They won't get near semi final next year

Seadin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120946558#Comment_120946558

I agree with Cork, I don't know what the fcuk is going on there as of late with the footballers. As with the Hurlers, they won nothing in minor since 2001 and in u20 since 1998 but that all changed in both 2020 and 2021 in those age groups. I believe the tide will turn in the senior grade very soon as well and I believe we may be the team to beat Limerick down the road but a bit away at the moment. Limerick won't be around forever and I think Cork will be the team to finally beat them.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120945447#Comment_120945447

Hopefully it wont be to long , but its gonna happen :)

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120947882#Comment_120947882

Cork should be competitive in both codes. GAA is still very popular there.

One reason for Dublin's success is that so many traditional counties were weak during their period of dominance eg Cork, Meath, Tyrone, Derry, Meath, Down, Galway, Kerry (I know they won an AI but it's considered a weak team).

Mayo are the only team to give them a game.

Roscommon have a population of 69,000 and are competitive and drew with Dublin.

Seadin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120948519#Comment_120948519

I agree about GAA being popular in the county but the standard of both codes In the club scene isn't as strong as it should be IMO. If you look at Kerry for example, any team in Kerry would beat the equivalent level in Cork in football. It would be extremely rare for a Cork club to beat a Kerry club in intermediate or junior grades. Yes the setup is different and there are more clubs in Cork but there should be less clubs at the top grade in Cork. Senior A or intermediate A shouldn't exist as it makes the intermediate and junior grades weaker when they go outside the county for the club championship. They should cut down the teams going to Senior and Intermediate. Then you would have a better standard at the lower levels in my view. Cork football I still think is miles off it needs to be to be challenging for Sam Maguire again. Something needs to change there. It happened for the Limerick Hurlers after years of near misses and disputes, they managed to change the way they do things and you now see where that has got them with years of success. Limerick are now winners and beating teams without bottling it like Limerick teams of the past. Limerick were never short of great Hurlers but the process is different now and there is great communication with everyone involved and that's why they are very successful.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120949293#Comment_120949293

I wouldn't compare clubs with Kerry as Kerry have a huge advantage in the AI club at Intermediate and Junior. A better comparison is minor and U20 where ye do well against Kerry. Cork have won two of each in the last 5 years.

I don't know what's going on in Cork but at a minimum they should be at Mayo and Tyrone's level, i.e. consistently competitive.

Seadin

There are less Kerry clubs at senior level in Kerry than Cork so intermediate and junior in Kerry are alot stronger. If the same structure was in Cork I imagine we be on par at the lower grades of football.

Intermediate in Kerry is like Senior in Cork, alot of Intermediate teams in Kerry may have been playing Senior at some stage but an Intermediate team in Cork would have to go along ways before climbing to the top of Senior football in Cork and that's where the gulf in standard is. If Cork copied Kerry's model I believe they be away more successful in football imo.

Seadin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120949740#Comment_120949740

I agree with minor and U20, Cork usually do well at these grades and are close to Kerry in the roll of honours in these grades. But something goes wrong after that and I don't know why but it's rare to see good Cork underage teams transforming into successful senior teams. Whoever is in charge of this isn't doing a good job. This has been always the case.

The_Kew_Tour

If we are basing it on population than Down and Antrim are seriously underachieving.

We all know though it's not that straightforward. Cork size kinda goes against them in another way.

Not making excuses cause 1000% Cork should be doing better especially in football, but its not as simple as potential playing size.

Corks problem has being caused a lot by a County Board that used and abused its power for nearly 30 years and its not recovered yet.

Kerry, Dublin, Mayo and Limerick have great financial backing and better luck to them but where is Dublin, Kerry or Mayos Hurling team or Limericks football team?

Many factors contribute and putting it down to just population is unfair for numerous reasons.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950493#Comment_120950493

It's not just population, it's number of clubs and players and culture and history. Cork has all that. I imagine Antrim has a large Protestant population which has no interest in GAA.

Also players being able to live at home is a big advantage, particularly in that 18 to 22 age group.

Large parts of Kerry historically have no interest in hurling. Traditionally only a handful of clubs in north Kerry play hurling. This is changing slowly though.

blowitupref

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120948519#Comment_120948519

Against the top two in the country Cork was competitive in the championship against Kerry and Dublin in the league losing narrowly to both. Reaching a Quarter final was probably the height of their ambitions this year. Cork showed plenty promise and potential this year they remind me of Galway and the stage of development they were in back in 2015 when Kevin Walsh took over.

Roscommon probably have their strongest panel of players at the moment for 20 years and apart from their win against Mayo and draw with Dublin they did not bring their Div 1 league form into the championship. So for them to not reach All Ireland Quarter final for a 2nd year in a row losing to teams they were expected to beat is certainly not overachieving.