The 2023 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924821#Comment_120924821

Also the Dublin subs are not 'like for like'. Which Dublin player offers what Jack McCaffery does? Kilkenny is not the same type of player as Basquel. To say that the Dublin subs are like for like is more myth making.

Dublin have as Sinead O'Connor would say 'Nothing Compared' to Fenton. If Fenton got injured for example - Dublin are then talking about McMahon/Lahiff/ P.OCofaigh-Byrne!

Like for like mo thoin....

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924906#Comment_120924906

The depth is not there for Dublin that is the point. That was why the old guard were brought back for Jayus sake. Ask any Dublin fan who is the next up and coming Dublin player they are excited about and they will be struggling. It will be stuff like maybe Ciaran Archer or A.Byrne could finally step up etc. Next Dub fan you meet out and about ask them see what they say. Most Dubs are in shock at the moment to be honest. Fellas calling it the best ever win given the context and who it was against

To be completely honest if I was to pick a starting 15 with no subs allowed the the teams I would pick would be - Kerry - Galway - Monaghan and maybe even Derry.

On the Ai final I think Kerry kicked it away - loads of chances both in first half and second half. Kerry could and should have made the creaking old Dublin bench an irrelevance.

Plus Dublin lost Bugler who did not even make the panel - injured. Of the Dublin subs - Jack McCaffery was effective but so was one of those Spillane's who came on as sub for Kerry and did well.

Kerry people know all this which is why there were really down hearted faces at FT. Kerry left it behind them, even Jack O'Connor said that post match. Dublin fans feel this one was a real bonus - one that few saw coming back when dublin were all over the shop in div 1, and struggling in div2.

Edit - starting 15 not 11 - the Ulster lads will have me on a list after that!

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925174#Comment_120925174

Mayo should've beaten us in 2014 semi also. Kerry were very lucky.

But as you say they probably would've found a way to lose to Donegal in the final.

But that Mayo team were able to go toe to toe with a Dublin team that lots of people call the greatest ever.

They were easily the 2nd best team in Ireland from 2012 to 2021 but came away with nothing but painful memories.

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925220#Comment_120925220

They had a great opportunity against Tyrone in 2021, had loads of experience playing finals, no real excuses, but, yet didn't perform it's a mental thing with them. I think the only way they could win an Al Ireland is if they were to face another Connacht team

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925126#Comment_120925126

Right so you are going on about Wicklow. Louth etc. Meath and Kildare are their own f**K ups they are way underacheiving particulary Kildare zero excuses.

You don't seem to mention how handy it is for Kerry in Munster - a hurling province. Waterford. Clare. Limerick and Cork up and down like a whores knickers. That is just an accident of geography and the problem with the provincial structure. Which is unfair. Which is why the league is fairer.

I mean in hurling I would like to see the Kilkenny cats spilt in nine. But the truth is Dublin hurlers playing Kilkenny over the years has helped raise Dublin's standards, showing them the bar that must be achieved.

In football this year Kerry, Galway, Derry, Mayo - will all be thinking 'what if'. With a bit more luck or a top tier manager/nous who knows.

Kerry - kicked it away this year when it mattered

Derry - did even more panicking than Kerry lacked the nous. At 2 points up in the closing stages of the Semi0 Final you kill the game slow it down, work the ball in for the easy mark or free. Instead Derry panicked and stopped doing all the good stuff, they did all year.

Galway - were let down by Comer and his injury proneness, and Walsh just seemed wrecked in the last few games - take those two out of any side and they struggle

Mayo - were Mayo imploded in that 10 minutes of the second half when they previously had Dublin where they wanted them. No game management from Mayo when it mattered.

-

As for Wicklow a load of them played in a Dublin club championship beating Vincents and Pat Gilroy -2003 with John Divily (Galway) and a Westmeath intercounty lad on the bench. Unable to play because of transfer question marks.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/ucd-beat-vins/25946783.html

The previous year in 2002 UCD got to the fina and l - when the basically intercounty team of UCD beat Vincents. Thankfully the colleges now compete in their own competition. UCD won the thing again 2006.

UCD were basically training country lads and raising their standards while allowing them to compete with intercounty players and even winning championships

Rathew beat a Vincents containing D. Connolly etc in the Leinster club championship in more recent years. I have not even mentioned Longford's Mullinaughta beating Kilmacud Crokes recently.

Also Corofin has long dominated club football but it has not translated to Sam wins for Galway at intercounty level. Cuala are an oasis in Dublin hurling terms even GAA terms. Mick Holden the first pioneer playing for Heffo's footballers.

But you know all this I suspect, however it does not suit your narrative.

dobman88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924475#Comment_120924475

There's 15 players on a football team.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925254#Comment_120925254

Haha I should be lined up and shot for that! I blame the womens soccer.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925239#Comment_120925239

That Tyrone loss had to the worst Mayo loss of the lot. Even worse than the Donegal one in 2012, they had no v traditional team excuse definite favourites in my eyes.

That Mayo fella who sliced that peno wide - jayus in the 2021 AI final. And beforehand I thought Mayo were favourites that year.

Dublin used to be like that though a real flaky mentality. A strong mentality is either in a person or it is not. The lads for Dublin on Sunday the veterans of that Dublin team - Cluxton, McCarthy, Fitzsimons etc they have it. It takes years to develop that culture of a winning mentality though.

I was struck by what Jack McCaffery said post match at the hotel on Sunday. He said it was important for Dublin to win to show any future younger lads what should be done - and how it should be done.

That is a culture, that is mentality. It is no coincidence when - Gilroy, Mannion, McCaffery, Cluxton all returned - the mentality returned.

Mannion said he was worried it would be different when he came back - but said the 'gang' was back.

A winning mentality/togetherness is priceless - something Mayo's rich benefactor Tim O"Leary knows nothing about.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/mayo-set-to-meet-with-gaa-chiefs-following-row-with-benefactor/38679107.html

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925254#Comment_120925254

If I start going on about throw in times and good three points won during the league. Feel free to report me to the mods!

ArielAtom

Well, a couple of days on from the win, watched the game back twice since then. Dublin the better team, to come from three points down twice shows real character. On David Gough, he did a fine job, he got a few decisions wrong but that was for both teams. Still the best ref we have in the country. Some of the bull written here by a few choice posters make the victory all the sweeter. Kerry supporters that both understand and appreciate football have been very gracious in defeat, the clowns from other counties living their lives out through anyone but Dublin really need to grow up and get a life. Anyway, Kerry will be back, good young team. Hopefully we can challenge again next year.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925810#Comment_120925810

The everyone hates us response. How terrifically boring that is now.

If you cannot stomach a discussion with differing opinions maybe forums are not for you?

ArielAtom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925868#Comment_120925868

Go through the thread and witness some of the bull that was spouted throughout the game. Mine is an opinion like yourself. If you dont like my opinion block me.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924448#Comment_120924448

The gap wasn't as wide as inches, it was nanometre, down to mentality. Dublin outscored Kerry 7-2 from the 50th minute onwards, a huge difference, the winning of the game. The game may have been level after 70 minutes but the body language told anyone watching that there was only one winner.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924651#Comment_120924651

Dublin football managers have never been paid, unlike other counties.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925991#Comment_120925991

You would well remember the flaky teams Dublin had - jayus you only have to go through the 90's and 00's. Painful stuff a lot of it. The real worrying thing is that 'mentality' (nevermind the high level of play) will soon evaporate.

Those great Kerry team that won the four Sam's - and got the three after out of annoyance - it did feck all after 1986 even losing to Clare in 92 was it?

They lost the fellas with the auras that mentality the greats - that is very hard to

1) Maintain

2) Replace

None of the other posters have yet to tell me this great Dublin second, third or even fourth team that Dublin have. Because jayus when these Dublin leaders leave- there will be some vacuum.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923694#Comment_120923694

Actually my original point was that David Clifford gets more praise because there are a lack of really top quality inside forwards out there to compare him against, and I stand by that point.

Gooch was regularly called the greatest ever but that opinion would be tempered by being able to point to a McDonnell or Canavan and justifiably say that an argument could be made for them as well.

That doesn't happen today because that level of quality isn't out there, so Clifford stands alone ahead of the pack and some 12 year old thinks that makes him the greatest of all time.

I will leave it there, because you keep coming back with this narrative that packed defences didn't exist 20 years ago, that teams weren't super fit and didn't have tactics. It just isn't the reality at all. Perhaps in the nineties you still had the man for man battles but from Armagh in 2002 on it was the era of sports science taking effect. The era of swarm defences, players flooding up and down the field both defending and attacking en masse. Brian Dooher working back like a dog and Philly Jordan bombing forward past him, has all that been forgotten already? Trying to claim that the likes of McDonnell didn't have to deal with massed defences and the famous puke football is just fundamentally not correct.

Seadin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924651#Comment_120924651

I wonder would the same be said by some Kerry fans, if Kerry were beating Dublin each time? Just wondering?

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926177#Comment_120926177

I don't understand this question. Be more specific. Would what be said by Kerry fans?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926056#Comment_120926056

It is 100% mentality, that is what Dublin missed over the last two years.

Maybe the younger players will have learned from this year.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926186#Comment_120926186

What has Leinster got to with it? I hope it hastens the death of the antiquated provincial system. From provinces created by the British which I would have assumed you would be all for breaking up

FFS, go away. Not interested in the rest of what you have to say after that.

What you guys pull out here is hilarious, and embarassing tbh.

Enjoy your win.

gormdubhgorm

Mod Edit

Warning issued.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926193#Comment_120926193

The most interesting piece is the manager, I suspect he will go now while the going is good.

I hope he does, he got a lot of flak and I can't imagine his job will get any easier going forward. He can walk now with two titles and his head held high, let a new man make a completely fresh start.

Then his leaving would be the catalyst for a few of the players to make the same decision I would imagine.

ShamoBuc

Mod Note

A page of posts deleted.

Over resourcing of 1 team....... Dublin A and Dublin B .... ALL that talk is off topic in this thread - kindly keep it in the other one please.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926414#Comment_120926414

I have no idea who could be Dublin manager next if they want to stick inside the county.

Seadin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926177#Comment_120926177

Croke Park factor. A few on the Kerry thread are saying now that the Croke Park advantage suits Dublin. Outside of Killarney, Croke Park was always considered Kerry's home.

thesultan

I always thought about the break up of the Dublin great 10s team. Bernard brogan their star forward, Connelly with his skillset. Still made no difference they weren't the invincibles but were still very good.

Cian Archer the most promising u20 footballer not even on the panel, not sure on his story but the same could be said for Hyland of Kildare who hasn't really pushed on..

Mannion seemed to.lose nothing as his Crokes displays showed and Cluxton is utterly dependent in all his actions.

The football championship was dire this year ,about two good matches but as a spectacle the GAA have to do something to alter it..

Give me the Dublin 14 team to watch any day, but Jimmy put a stop to that..

shockframe

Not a classic final it is fair to say but an enjoyable watch and the closeness/drama made for a gripping contest overall.

Felt Kerry were just that bit slower and indecisive in the 1st half.

They will return you can safely say but given that they had a run of 5 All Ireland minor titles in a row it must be disappointing for them to have only 1 Senior All Ireland to show for it.

Especially when the 2019 Final seemed to suggest that Kerry may be about to turn the tide oon the Dubs.

Hearing most are laying into the championship but apart from the Round 2 of the groups and The quarter final letdown the championship was nowhere near as bad as what is being made out.

Hopefully next year can open up again further.

Also to add how refreshing it was to have Darragh Maloney in commentary as opposed to Marty fawning all over the players. Maloney really adds to the occasion without going overboard.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923837#Comment_120923837

Kilkenny : 8 All Irelands

Con : 6

Costello : 8

22 AI’s between 3 fellas so far

9 All stars, between 2 of them…. So far…..

scoreless from play but victorious, again, 😋 we’ll take that anytime.

Swaine

Mod Edit

Warning issued.

Gael85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120927458#Comment_120927458

Archer never pushed on from u20. Since change from u21 to u20 we have found harder to bring through young lads especially forwards. Archer is a good freetaker but don't think contributes enough from play to warrant a start.