The 2023 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920976#Comment_120920976

I don't rate him as the GOAT 'senior' though - not yet anyway. The GOAT minor definitely, I would say.

He really flopped v Cork during that Covid senior AI in 2020 for example. Tomas O'Se was absolutely raging in studio, or 'bulling' as he would say.

I would have David Clifford as potentially great, just needs to really do it basically all the time especially in the big games. Is there much difference between Shane Walsh/Con O'Callaghan/David Clifford for example?

If I was to compare Clifford with the Gooch back 10 years ago Kerry lost in a SF to Dublin. The Gooch ran the show was all over the pitch unselfish playing lads in. But Kerry still lost. But the Gooch more than did his bit.

I already mentioned Darragh Canavan from Tyrone who should be pushing David Clifford in the coming years.

The only other fella I can think of that is a class player and the potential to be great is Daniel Flynn for Kildare - but the poor bastard plays for Kildare! So has not much hope, the mindset and lack of consistency in that county is a pure joke. Would a new Mayo forward step up? But then you think when has a 'clutch' Mayo forward emerged that really does it in the big games? None since Andy Moran IMO.

There is not any 'new' Dublin star forward coming through. that I can think of anyway. The type who supporters are really excited about. The fact there is not makes it even more impressive that Dessie managed to get the old guard back to basically sneak that Sam under the noses of a vibrant, tactically improved Kerry deserves a load of credit.

If you told me when Dublin were struggling in Div2 (v Clare - Cork - Derry) riddled with issues and would win Sam I would have fell over laughing.

There was no bench to speak of. OK Mannion came back but did not look the same plater he once was. McCaffery was back but there was injury and fitness questions. Rock was starting, and looked well past it legs gone. There was no Cluxton...

Dessie was struggling to find a midfield partner for Fenton trying a good few different fellas, it was not working. It has been some transformation.

Before that Mayo match in the AI QF it did not look good. Even at half time in that match it did not look good- it was also the first time Kilkenny was benched in a big game or any game for who knows how long. Then when Cluxton came back there were doubts was he just back up. Will he take frees? Instead of Costello/Rock? He did not seem to take crucial frees before this Kerry AI final.

Now surely there will be a vacuum now though as the Dublin old guard depart the scene?

It will be really interesting to see if David Clifford can emerge as top dog, given the fact the fact that McManus from Monaghan will retire. The Kerry supporters will be glad to see the back of that Dublin old guard anyway!

The_Honeybadger

Well done to the Dublin team and management and I hope all the fans had a good night celebrating. They deserved the win and were the more composed team down the stretch when the fat was in the fire so to speak.

Dublin got just about everything right in terms of their approach and matchups, Cluxton was a big factor as he was perfect from restarts even when pressured, while Kerry gave up a few that hurt them.

Dublin shackled David Clifford well and minimised his impact, Fitsimmons was excellent, albeit he had a lot of help with a spare man in front for most of the game. Dublin clearly had put a lot of work in to how to take DC out of the game, they executed perfectly and David became frustrated and ended up taking a few shots that he really should have laid off. I find some of the gleeful comments questioning his credentials on the back of one performance on a wet day where he was double marked to be quite distasteful, claiming he is not a big game player etc, misinformed nonsense bordering on pure and utter spite.

I think the decision to start Stephen O’Brien was probably the wrong one but we will never know. The error for the goal was unfortunate from a Kerry point of view and was probably the lift that Dublin needed at that time.

The better team on the day prevailed and Kerry can have no complaints in fairness. They are young enough to get back there again and should be there or thereabouts at the business end for the next couple of years.

It is good to see Cluxton, McCarthy and Mick Fitz move to 9 all Ireland’s, they are among the very best players ever and what they have achieved is mind boggling given the commitment that is required in the modern game.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921717#Comment_120921717

I think the opposite, it is going to be wide open for the next few years. If any of the chasing pack get their act together then a title will be there for the taking.

Dublin have a huge transition coming up and that Kerry side are miles away from being dominant, Derry and Dublin both showed how easy it is to control the game against them.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920989#Comment_120920989

Exactly, the Gooch kept it going against the good Dublin sides not just the flakier versions from the 00's.

It seems some people are very young, or have short memories, or not watched older matches. It happens I suppose where the players of a particular decade get talked about as the 'best ever' then the next decade comes around and they are forgotten!

When I think of it those Galway lads from the Jubilee team (that were in Croke Park the last day) had some fantastic forwards, and the time they were spoken of as greats. They had that surprise win v Kildare in 98 when Kildare fancied themselves. Then won in 2001 after coming through the back door - barely no one remembers that the Rossies won Connacht that year.

That is another key point about all Dublin AI's they all came through the front door. Many don't seem to realise that. Or forget it.

None of the back door stuff, that Galway, Kerry, Tyrone etc managed to avail of. Dublin needed no second chances proper 'old school' all irelands. Dublin have been unbeaten in groups stages/super 8's and the like as well when going on to win Sam.

FrancieBrady

Deleted

thesultan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921479#Comment_120921479

They all didn't have 14 players in front of them..

The_Honeybadger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921479#Comment_120921479

Different time’s entirely. Football was played man v man at that stage and was far less advanced tactically, no sweepers or swarm defences etc, and none of those players you’ve mentioned had to worry about defensive duties or tracking their own men up the field for the most part.

Football is now very technical and has evolved to become almost positionless at this stage, every player has a job to do with and without the football. I would argue that the standards and skill levels in the game have never been higher and that they continue to improve.

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921646#Comment_120921646

Martin Mchugh. I actually miss reading the rubbish he used to sprout. Talked some nonsense

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921556#Comment_120921556

History doesn't do *s.

This Dublin team is the greatest, full stop, all questions answered.

leath_dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919501#Comment_120919501

But sure Jack Barry always has his measure 🙂

dobman88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921717#Comment_120921717

Derry will win 1

thesultan

A brutal football championship though..Mostly negative borefeast for the most part..

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921717#Comment_120921717

Kerry are far from a complete team. They'll be there or thereabouts for 6 years at least though. Lots of finals and semi finals to look forward to.

Dublin are on a downward slope. They've been poor underage for years. But they'll be there or thereabouts also.

Cork have improved a lot. Derry are a coming force. Galway, Mayo, Tyrone all good.

I miss the 90s and early 00s when a team would emerge and win an AI.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921972#Comment_120921972

I agree with the poster.

Has to be an asterisk as Dublin only win these tight games because they can keep throwing the gains they get from their advantage on to the field.

Their strenght in depth comes from a bigger catchment area and the resources to condition those players to a level no other team can. They have almost two top county level teams available to them.

Football people are well able to asterisk.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922038#Comment_120922038

I agree they've huge advantages but I don't like to say it as I think it diminishes the work and effort of the players and coaches.

When they're out in the cold and rain of January running around a pitch, we're on the couch talking about their advantages.

When we're out drinking 10 pints and eating burgers, they're at home prehabbing and stretching and eating chicken and pasta.

Likewise all the volunteers and coaches who give up their time.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921994#Comment_120921994

I Disagree the group stages had Fantastic excitement and had a major say in how the championship panned out. Teams who otherwise would not have been able to have a cut at the big guns outside their provincials put on a good show. Sligo, Westmeath. And Cork, Roscommon, and Kildare should have learnt loads about themselves

Plus both Semi Finals were close and drew in a lot of neutrals.

Most successful championship for many a year.

BaywatchHQ

Was glad to see Kerry beaten as a Derry fan. I have no like for Dublin either, they are such classy individuals swearing on live TV like that.

Trey13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922013#Comment_120922013

Would agree with this.

I’ve been vocal on Dublin’s transition period which will come whenever the cohort of age 30+ move on. However, the transition will be made a lot easier unless someone from Leinster can step up.

If Dublin are still walking to Leinster titles then they’ll always be in the mix.

Louth, Kildare, Meath and Westmeath - you would need one of these to make a jump but I’m not sure who is most likely. Harte is doing a good job but he’ll need to find a few more players. Meath look to have some good young players. Westmeath have been consistently solid in the Championship for years - but can’t seem to make that jump. And then Kildare are Kildare!

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922085#Comment_120922085

Yeh, people don't like it being said, that's for sure. But it doesn't alter reality sadly.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921963#Comment_120921963

I can only laugh at that to be honest, the idea that the likes of Tyrone 2003 weren't defensive, sure wasn't the phrase "puke football" coined because of them, they invented the bloody swarm defence for gods sake.

I mean, I had Galvin there, who on earth says with a straight face that he did no defensive work?

People really do have very short memories.

On a different note, can you imagine the damage the likes of Donaghy or Clarke would do with the forward mark? Benny Coulter? They would be brutally hard to stop if it existed back then.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921843#Comment_120921843

Why use the back door when the front door is always wide open.

mobby

Ah the usual suspects arrive. Just hate the Dubs. It's great to see how annoyed they get after Dublin win yet another all Ireland. You can see their spite in all they post. I love reading the nonsense stuff they constantly post. Bitter and sad lot. But it's great to know how annoyed they are. It's was fantastic to meet proper football people from all county's before and after the game yesterday who will sit have a pint with you and talk proper football talk face to face.

thesultan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922095#Comment_120922095

Might have been tight games but how many good games had we. So,so defensive yet the GAA will bury their hands..

dobman88

Apart from the result yesterday, it was up there with my best days out at an all Ireland.

Arranged to meet 2 friends, my brother and sister in the Brian Boru pub. A nice quiet spot but with enough fans around to create an atmosphere. Just so happened some of the Tyrone team were sitting across from us so as you can imagine the craic was good with them and we had a good chat about the game. Was great to get current players insights into things.

Met Rory Beggan on the walk into the stadium. He's some fvckin unit of a man. I'm 6'1 and he towered over me.

Met Kieran McGeary and his partner on the walk up Clonliffe Road after. Had a good chat with them. She thinks the Dub lads will stay on and go for 10 😬😬

And met Meath midfielder Brian Menton walking up for the bus who was happy to chat away and again was interesting to get the thoughts of a man who played county and played against most of that Dublin team.

Probably not many other sports where you can chat away to "rival" players and them being happy to chat ball with fans of other teams.

Result aside, great day out.

The_Honeybadger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922119#Comment_120922119

Laugh all you want. You are more than a bit naive if you think the quality today isn’t as good as years past. Either of the teams yesterday would wipe the floor with the better teams of the 00’s tactically and in terms of conditioning etc.

The game has evolved almost beyond recognition, almost all teams are bringing 12-13 behind the ball when the opponent is in possession, short kickouts, more hand passing and the obsessive focus on retaining possession and working high percentage opportunities around the D. How many times was direct 50/50 ball kicked in to the full forward line on either side yesterday? Very few, there were less than a handful of forward marks claimed iirc.

Im not talking in absolute terms but marquee forwards had much more space to work with back in the 00’s. The game is much more systematic now and there are as many scores in the big games as ever. How is that possible if the quality isn’t there?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922138#Comment_120922138

Ah the usual, 'everyone hates the Dubs' post.

Criticise the Dubs and it's open a pack of instant Utterly Butterly Victimhood add tears of Nobody Loves Us and stir.

Man up, it's a criticism of the system that allows the advantage.

Seadin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921975#Comment_120921975

Exactly Sure he marked Fenton out of it yesterday as well 😂😂😂

The_Kew_Tour

Just odds for 2024 AI

Kerry 15/8

Dublin 9/4

Galway and Derry 7s

Mayo 9s

Tyrone 16s

Don't think they are far off. Still big gap between top two and rest.

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920934#Comment_120920934

So he got man of the match even though he wasn't the best player on the field on the day, so his reputation did help him get it, that's all I was saying.

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922306#Comment_120922306

Nope. He was the best player on the winners team. Its arguable whether Walsh was better or not on the day, but when its close like that the winning team will almost always get it.

Nothing to do with reputation.