The 2023 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

Goodigal

In 10 years' time you can discuss whether Clifford is the GOAT. The chap is only 24!! Always feel there's so much pressure on him to perform. He didn't do it yesterday, so he's human after all. Still an unreal player with plenty more days in Croke Park ahead of him.

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920562#Comment_120920562

He scored 8 points to drag his team over the line in 2022. Why not use that same frame of reference in his case? You clearly have an agenda to downplay his abilities when you're framing of that final as 'he wasn't even the best forward on the day', when you've framed Canavan and Fitzgerald as dragging their teams along.

I'm not talking about the 'GOAT' discussion. I'm saying that the way a lot of this criticism is framed is either recency bias, or isn't approaching the discussion of his abilities in an honest way. David Clifford is, in my eyes, undoubtedly a very good big-game player, despite having a poor game yesterday.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920530#Comment_120920530

It was a really odd sort of a game no proper pattern to it.

Fenton Cluxton played crucial roles in the winning of that game two effortless looking peaches of points from the pair of them. I bet the Kerry lads are watching those on repeat trying to learn how to do it for next year.

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920510#Comment_120920510

Do you actually watch football?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920615#Comment_120920615

He scored three points from play!! The rest were frees and marks. Shane Walsh was better than him that day in a losing cause.

Clifford has a lot of the Cillian O'Connor vibes about him, a good forward, can take a score, but lacking the big-game big-day mentality that turns good players into great players.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920530#Comment_120920530

But Dublin were quite poor in many respects, its just that Kerry were worse.

I said it weeks ago in here that Kerry were a rather shite team and got lambasted for it. But it is true, compared to the top teams from over the years they are a nothing side, a few quality players surrounded by a lot of bog standard lads. Not a patch on their sides from the 2000's, and you can see that in the performances.

I never thought Dublin were in much danger yesterday, but there were plenty of poor performances and quiet players on their side. It just didn't matter too much because they had enough to control the game and see it out.

Mayo must kick themselves that they peaked at the same time as the dubs, if the Moran/Keegan era side were around now they would have a couple of medals in their hands, the standard has definitely dropped.

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920550#Comment_120920550

Achieved nothing? Are people drunk.

Morgans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920503#Comment_120920503

While it wasn't said at the time, it is funny how DJ doesn't get mentioned in the best ever. Its universally understood to be Shefflin (or TJ Reid now). Tommy Walsh and JJ Delany are the other two GOATs. And part of that is being able to stand up and be counted when it matters.

I don't think James McCarthy is the greatest ever, the greatest Dub etc. However, what is clear from the Dubs this year was the influence of their big players like Cluxton, like McCarthy in setting a standard for younger players and pushing players to be better. Being the greatest of all time is more than being the most skilful individual of all time.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920648#Comment_120920648

Nothing to be in the conversations for GOAT.

There have been many good forwards over the years who are not in the conversation for GOAT. Clifford isn't there yet either.

Fann Linn

No. Not having any of that. Mayo would still have found a way of clutching defeat from the jaws of victory.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920613#Comment_120920613

David Clifford has a job to overtake former Kerry greats - The Gooch, Pat Spillane etc never mind being called the GOAT yet - one step at a time!

It looks like in future the best of the decade conversation in the next few years will between David Clifford/and Darragh Canavan.

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920645#Comment_120920645

Peter Canavan scored 1 from play in the final that was referenced, Maurice Fitz scored 4 from play.

How Shane Walsh played has nothing at all to do with David Clifford being the main man in Kerry winning the All Ireland final.

These arguments against his abilities are utter nonsense; detached from reality. I don't know why I'm engaging with them.

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920648#Comment_120920648

Blanch is either:-

1. On the beer since yesterday, and has lost all senses.
2. On a wind-up
3. In denial, and wants to pretend that any of the dubs are fit to lace Cliffords boots, or
4. Hasn't a clue about football.

Treble double

Really enjoyed that match, it was a great final. Tight and tense all the way through. Every single score had to be worked really hard for. Slippery conditions added to the chaos. They workrate, defending and challenges were fierce. The ref added to the contest and some of the man to man match ups were riveting, Fitzsimmons/Clifford being the big one. An epic contest. The Dubs are an amazing outfit, embodied by their captain McCarthy, his interview on the pitch afterwards was powerful. He boiled it all down to men being prepared to but their bodies on the line for the cause and it oozed from his pores that he was prepared to go to hell rather than be beaten. That's what separates the winners from the also rans.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920615#Comment_120920615

Because he wasn't the best forward on the day, Shane Walsh clearly was.

Like I said, you can't just dismiss the "GOAT" thing when it is the entire point of the conversation, you have lads in here repeating over and over that Clifford is the greatest player of all time, and I responded to that. If people were judging him accurately I wouldn't have an issue, but they aren't doing that, they are calling him the greatest ever and it just doesn't hold water. His real world performances simply do not put him ahead of any of the other names in that conversation.

Is he a great player that any team in the country would love to have in their side? Absolutely. Is he the greatest of all time? Not based on any objective reasoning he isn't.

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920684#Comment_120920684

Even for boards the nonsense level is through the roof this morning.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920684#Comment_120920684

There you have the Clifford narrative in a nutshell. Anybody who doesn't immediately fall and kiss his feet is an imbecile. All hail King David, we are blessed to have him in our presence.

It can't be that he is just a great player, no, he has to be the golden boy.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920684#Comment_120920684

Plus a star player can have an impact on team just by being there. I still remember Micky Harte bringing Peter Canavan on and off as a sub in an AI think it was v Armagh? To be able to give a team a lift. It worked like a charm.

It is sort of similar to how Cluxton lifted/lifts Dublin, that casual stroll up the pitch gets the crowd going, then watching him casually stroke it over.

It probably worked too well at one stage because the Dublin crowd and players were so delighted with the Cluxton score it created a distraction.

Then soon after David Clifford took advantage of that lack of concentration did his bit of magic in the corner to create that Kerry goal. Which was a real sickner from a Dublin point of view.

Dont Be at It

The posts using his off day to downplay Clifford's footballing ability are so disingenuous 🤣.

He's an otherworldly gaelic footballer. Pretty much every past footballer doing punditry has said as much. I think their opinion counts for something.

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920684#Comment_120920684

Clifford got man of the match last year more on his reputation than his performance, while he played well, it was clear Walsh was the best player on the pitch that day, all be it in a losing cause. Clifford is clearly the best footballer in the country, but, that doesn't mean he should automatically get man of the match awards or POTY awards when he plays reasonably well, especially if someone has put in a better performance.

Had Clifford played reasonably well yesterday and Kerry won, he would probably have got man of the match. We see it all the time, players getting awards based more on reputation than on performance.

Fann Linn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920722#Comment_120920722

Media are to blame for all of this hype I believe. I like Clifford but I don't believe he's the greatest of all time. FFS he's only 24. Give him another 3 or 4 year's and evaluate him then.

Had to laugh on Saturday night myself when Newstalk OTB was comparing him to Messi at his best for Barca from 2010 to 2012.

Mad Ted...

Seadin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920411#Comment_120920411

I don't know why you can't accept that Dublin obviously made it difficult for Kerry for them to go too far ahead. Dublin always responded when the chips are down. Sign of real champions. Kerry have been second best to this team for some time, 2022 the exception when Kerry needed a last min free to get them over the line.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920613#Comment_120920613

Thats it really. I am sure he doesn't care for all the GOAT talk. He is a brilliant player, who didn't hit his own high standards yesterday, and will likely learn from it.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920833#Comment_120920833

It is likely David Clifford won't ever have to face Mick Fitzsimons again so he will be grand!

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920818#Comment_120920818

That's it , it's been rammed down our throats. And it's ridiculous considering his age. I enjoyed his misses yesterday.

jack747

I’m just curious , anyone that was around the stadium before the game. Did there seem to be many spares floating around for it ?

Anyone who went without a ticket , manage to pick one up on the day?

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920860#Comment_120920860

None of that is his fault though. Media love to blow smoke

dobman88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920645#Comment_120920645

Was Shane Walsh that much better? Only kicking 4 from play.

Shane Walsh 9pts (4f, 1 '45)

David Clifford 8pts (3f, 2 mark)

The Walsh v Clifford "shootout" is a myth. Both scored more from placed balls, as you'd expect them to do.

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920804#Comment_120920804

I thought Shane Walsh just about edged it for MOTM last year too, although I know that might be influenced by my Galway bias.

That, however, has absolutely nothing to do with a discussion about David Clifford's merits as a footballer. There are people in this thread questioning his big game mentality and that he's not dragged his teams to victories. Best or not the best of this, that or the other, there are some wild opinions being proffered with glee in this thread after he had a bad game yesterday.

thesultan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920530#Comment_120920530

Hardly won easily..the last free confirmed their victory..