Sick of this country

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578506#Comment_121578506

Then you won't disagree that we should make it a requirement that anyone who has their third level education funded by the state should guarantee years of service to the state thereafter?

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578134#Comment_121578134

Mehhh..your snarky one line comment doesn't contribute anything. I respect the doctors who actually can debate the issue here a lot more than people like you .

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578512#Comment_121578512

I've already indicated that while I support this scheme it is only part of what is needed to improve our health service.

If any other similar schemes are proposed I will consider them on a case by case basis.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578839#Comment_121578839

...im sure that wouldnt cause serious resentment issues, causing those same people to fo, possible/probably for good!

Larbre34

The problem with such an idea, is the discrimination.

I worked in different public sector roles down the years, and studied at night while I did so, with the employer paying for the course, on the proviso that I owed that employer, or other State body, one year of service for every year of study funded.

Now that is fine for a person in employment. I'm getting paid for full-time work and am being facilitated in professional education part-time, so, quid pro quo.

The difficulty arises in undergraduate studies in full-time education. All kids leaving school in Ireland are entitled to supplemented third-level education under the 'Free Fees' programme. It doesn't cover accommodation and loads of other stuff, but all else being equal, they only pay a registration fee and some other sundries.

Lets assume you have three Graduates. One in Commerce, one in Engineering, one in Nursing.

Each of the three want to leave University with their Level 8 Graduate Degree and go to work in banking in New York, building in the UAE and pediatric care in Melbourne. The each need a sponsored visa and a few quid to get started, but otherwise its just three bright and hard working young people heading off to enjoy the carefree life of working abroad for a few years.

On what basis do you put the golden handcuffs on the Nursing graduate, but not on our other two young friends?

The answer is that you cannot. Not on College leavers that aren't already in any way in State employment. And paid Nursing placement doesn't count as that, its part of the course requirement.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578839#Comment_121578839

Ah ... so you don't agree.

Rather than fund schools and hospitals properly (including their staff) you believe in a totalitarian state taking control of the lives of qualified doctors/nurses/teachers but you'll consider on a "case by case" basis whether that should apply to accountants, computer scientists, etc....

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579283#Comment_121579283

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579289#Comment_121579289

....dont worry, its bullsh1t, it ll never happen, thank god, just lads talking sh1te on the internets!

Deep Thought

Have been reading a lot of the comments here and it’s surprising how much negativity the OP has.. pretty much hates everything.. but could live in a house that hi folks have vacant..

I turned down a job in Sydney a few years ago offering $120k.. because I couldn’t actually afford to live in Sydney on that salary.

OP is just short of blaming his parents for having him born here.

anyway.. go and give it a try, but if you choose to stay or come back..then you can’t moan anymore

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579321#Comment_121579321

And yet it's already started with the students in Northern Ireland.

For students in the future it could well happen in ROI, either from undergrad or grad courses.

Why wouldn't it ? Grad entry requires fees .

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579347#Comment_121579347

whats students?

...its not gonna happen here, seriously, it would clearly drive them out of the country, then we d be left with an even more rapidly aging population, how would you like to be working into your 80's or 90's?

maninasia

Drive who out of the country exactly?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579347#Comment_121579347

cause we dont live in that type of country, thankfully.....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579370#Comment_121579370

seriously! yes people who are forced to stay in countries, who have the abilities to move to other countries, would definitely stay, definitely!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577575#Comment_121577575

There’s a big difference between someone with a software degree and a medical degree, the latter is dealing with life and death. A junior doctor is still very much learning and dependent on the expertise of other medical staff to correct mistakes. Medicine is something that takes a hell of a long time to become expert at, and a junior doctor doesn’t make a fortune anywhere in the world, they are on a learning rung. That’s the structure of the career, it’s a long game.

However nobody should be working their butt off in hazardous conditions the way many junior doctors have done, and one massive problem in this country is the lack of accommodation.

We can’t create Australian weather here, maybe thar’s a good thing sometimes as I’ve heard Australians finding some extremes of their own climate hard to take at times.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579390#Comment_121579390

They don't seem to realise that leaving-cert students in this country can apply to 3rd level in any of the other EU countries and pay the same fees as a citizen of that country. Maybe they'll suggest charging those students for their primary and secondary education if they refuse to study and work here or even better, leave the EU. As you say, all it will do is drive students out of the country, some of our best students no less and somehow that's supposed to make this country better...

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579494#Comment_121579494

"Junior doctor is on the learning rung"

Junior doctor is a title, it doesn't reflect their experience. Some junior doctors have more years served than GPs, they've just followed a different career path.

csirl

The problem with our health system is the vested interests who keep the number of doctors and consultants low so as to guarantee that they all are guaranteed well paid careers.

Problem is easy to solve in the context of the demand to study medicine. We should triple the numbers.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579639#Comment_121579639

theyre talking sh1te, i wouldnt be worrying about it....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579678#Comment_121579678

nothing easy about our health systems problems, theres probably not a health system on the planet that has managed to reset itself after covid, our problems will persist for decades unfortunately....

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579289#Comment_121579289

Well to put it bluntly what I don't agree with is you putting words in my mouth.

I think we are pretty much done here.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579244#Comment_121579244

I suppose it could cause some resentment if people were forced to join the scheme against their will.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579921#Comment_121579921

forcing people into such a thing is just beyond stupid in every possible way, a rapidly aging population is an extremely serious problem......

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579929#Comment_121579929

There is no indication that anyone will be forced to participate in the scheme.

Here is an interview with a Clare GP who is a member of the IMO GP Committee.

He broadly welcomes the scheme but acknowledges that while it is a step in the right direction more needs to be done.

https://www.clare.fm/news/lahinch-gp-believes-medical-profession-not-attractive-enough-stop-students-emigrating/

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579678#Comment_121579678

Yep that would make too much sense and upset the applecart.

Of course that's not the only thing that needs to be done.

maninasia

There's no lack of candidates to study medicine especially if it continues to be subsidised.

Stop with the melodrama already.

Strumms

I’d have to think quite seriously about my own future in this country the way it’s heading… I have two now elderly parents so I won’t ( hopefully ) be doing anything for quite a while. But the trajectory this country is on is pretty grave, pretty obnoxious.

the political system and its cogs and machinations have started to turn against Irish citizens and we are starting to become an afterthought in this NGOville / Cape of Good Woke state that Leo and others have advocated for and pushed / facilitated.

Ireland of 1916 - 2019 is dead and gone… there isn’t anyway to get back there.

next job I go for in the summer im going to be competing with multiples more people many of whom will be ok to work for a bit less. and market themselves on this basis. Employers will and do know this.

it will drive wages down, yet the cost of living will continue to go up.

if I ever need a medical card again I’ll probably be told to swing for it, until my savings would be exhausted. Maybe even then I’d be fücked I dunno.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581510#Comment_121581510

Where are you going to move to?

some1gr8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577563#Comment_121577563

I generally try not to take part in a forum(for my own reasons) but in this case, could not disagree with you, As a foreigner living in Ireland since 2000, Its a great country to live in. Seriously, there is nothing wrong with this country, there are no earthquakes like Turkey, there is no war or chances of a war in near decades, Irish are friends with everybody apart from Brits (they are on a path to becoming Ireland of 80s), :).Look at poor Ukraine, if you are young, you are taken to fight a war so that Joe Biden can sleep in his grave comfortably, who knows when there be any future war? Ukraine is bit like mid mid-terrace house with Travellers living on both side fighting with each other, they are using your front garden to fight and taking your kids to fight their own war, while Ireland is a bit like end of terrace house in a nice peaceful cul-de-sac.

There are no storms like in America every second year, where every second year, you have to board up your whole house and leave and you don't know if it be there when you come back. You wouldn't die of hunger. Health care might not be the best in the world, but you would not be denied whatever is there just because some corrupt group has mastered art of corruption and the majority of tax money is taken by them ()just because they can, smuggle it with them abroad.

The country that i am from, once i went back after living for few years in Ireland to a hospital with my father (he had broken his back, and because of poor tradition/health practice he is bedridden, anyway,i was shocked when there was a dead body just outside the entrance of the hospital and nobody was beside her and that was this country best public hospital. I don't know the whole story behind it. Can you imagine that in Ireland?

Does not matter how bad the conditions are, you can still have three meals from McDonald's/supermac with your dole money. That is what our friends in the city center are doing.

Seriously, i would suggest that you go and visit a few of these, with your white skin (not being racist) you will have your back hole bigger than a tennis ball, whether you like it or not, my point is there is no rule of law. In Ireland, things still work based on some rules and regulations.

Just to clear my point (i hope you are not offended by the above example, it was just joke), another example, a teenage boy (son of a police inspector/officer) who dies protecting his sister from the son of a very influential person, who was harassing her. The culprit shot this poor police officer's kid, open on the spot, with nothing hidden, The murder gets punishment by the lower court but when he appeals in the high/supreme court, the mother of the victims withdrew her case after she told the judge that only punish the murder if you can guarantee my daughter well being (she was threatened by the murderer family that they will kidnap and rape her daughter open in public if she did not withdraw her case . she already lost her son, she did not want her daughter's life destroyed. so now put yourself in that place an be happy that your worry is "fucken doc" does not stay in Ireland (you still have foreign doc and nurses working in a hospital, (that's for another day story that laws against racism in Ireland is a lot to be desired for) there's a lot to worry about in life that you get for granted in Ireland without even thinking and you get it..

maninasia

Comparing Ireland with some shithole country is a bit of a copout.

There are definitely things wrong with this country, set your expectations a bit fecking higher. For people born in Ireland they saw some things used to be better some worse, we don't need to accept things are getting worse e.g. healthcare/ housing just because some other dump is worse than Ireland .

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581615#Comment_121581615

People giving out about housing (rightly so) but remember the population in 2004 was 4 million. Now its 5.1 million. Couple that with rural decline and here were are.

Lets not forget this is a global issue and its the same in most other big cities in non shithole countries. Go to Paris, New York, San Francisco, Sydney, Berlin, London etc and its the same. Too many people!

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577560#Comment_121577560

And the taxpayers having to foot the education bill is what? It’s decades ago now, but I think it was in Denmark, I came a cross that requirement before for certain professionals where there was a shortage and the education was state funded.

As for your accountants example, most people in training be it accountants, solicitors, electricians or carpenters are not well paid while in training or in the early years and some training contracts have a payback clause if you break the contract. Likewise in the defense forces and so on there is a requirement for service in exchange for specialized education.

So the concept is definitely not new and if the shortage continues across Europe and beyond, you may well see such requirements be introduced.

maninasia

Nope housing is not the same in other countries because in Ireland the housing crisis is across the WHOLE country whereas in most countries it's concentrated in the capital city or a few places only. Yep we are the champions when it comes to the housing crisis even compared to Australia etc .