Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142373#Comment_122142373

An increase of circa 4,000 in the first 4 months of this year.

Sure let's keeping adding at a rate of 1,000 per month and see how we go.

There was a letter posted in here last week about houses being bought to accommodate 12 asylum seekers…so we will just need 83 houses per month, to meet that demand, ignoring the people stuck living at home or in hotels around the country

tom23

Younwould need that for Nigerians alone. The biggest nationality of IPAS. In fairness that country is devastated by war.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140270#Comment_122140270

People do arrive in Austrailia and arent put in detention.

This visa is for people who arrived in Australia without a visa, and want to seek asylum. It lets you stay in Australia temporarily if you engage Australia's protection obligations and meet all other requirements for the grant of the visa.

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/temporary-protection-785

Where the link saying we spent several billion on illegal immigration?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142397#Comment_122142397

I used to think it didn't do Ireland any harm. Lately I'm starting to wonder.

High skilled people will generally be in demand for visas anyway. It'll give lower skilled people a chance to earn, send remittances and later move back to invest

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142319#Comment_122142319

Absolutely, a Danish model based on deterrence is gradually being adopted by multiple EU Member States, including Sweden. Policies including increased thresholds for protection, reduced processing times, reduced protection time-limits, limited access to the labour market, limited access to welfare, increased use of detention, increased deportation, limited family reunification etc. will render Ireland a considerably less attractive prospect for economic migrants and asylum seekers engaging in secondary movement from the EU (between 50% and 70% of asylum seekers in the State).

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142446#Comment_122142446

But we are , and Indian and Phillipino nurses .

Without them coming here to work our health service would be non existent .

Unless more medical and nurses' places are provided in college and pay and conditions improve in line with Australia and other countries that are attracting our qualified healthcare staff away , we won't retain people .

Many do return after gaining a few years experience but less so with our current housing situation.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141224#Comment_122141224

Do you know who is doing the 'kicking off ' there ,Prunudo ?

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142827#Comment_122142827

Ah yes. Because we are reliant on highly trained and educated non EU nurses who go through legal channels, we must open the borders to anyone who wants to come.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142852#Comment_122142852

not sure of in and outs, group of migrants attacked the 'security guards', ambulance and garda called.

tom23

Far right IPA’s? Or Far left IPA’s?

Furze99

Our health service should not have to rely on immigrant health workers. We trained enough before and still do aplenty. Instead of taking in overseas health workers at lower wages with all the consequent demands we hear to bring family over and the costs associated etc, surely we'd better off raising our own wages and conditions and retaining what we train of Irish staff. This is what happens when you put 'bean counters' in charge of public services like this. Health services should not be seen in the same employment frame as mushroom growing.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142912#Comment_122142912

What ..are you talking about ?

Where did I say that ?

Oh is that what you think should happen ?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142994#Comment_122142994

And another !

Hang on here and I'll show you a few posts of your own a while back giving out about the lack of health services etc .

.So how long do you think it takes to train well qualified doctors and nurses,?

I see you agree with my post above on pay and conditions though .

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142916#Comment_122142916

Talking about Clonmel ?

That ruckus was elsewhere I think .

Clonmel ..a drug dealer traveller is kicking off because it's the field next to the halting site where he does his dealing that is being used.

Not many locals put out by that field but the fact that there is a lack of social housing in the town .

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142827#Comment_122142827

What you are failing to take into consideration, however, is that the policy of using immigrant nurses and other workers helps keep wages down and rents high thus contributing to the problem of Irish-trained professionals leaving the country.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142999#Comment_122142999

You've been shilling for asylum seekers throughout this thread. Bringing up foreign nurses (who no one has ever mentioned) is the typical response that people like you make. You're trying to introduce a false equivalence for your support of asylum.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143063#Comment_122143063

No .

They don't keep wages down .

They earn the same as Irish healthcare workers . And it's all union negotiated pay agreements , a few years at a time .

It's government who have kept a tight fiscal purse on wage agreements for years and more recently and bizarrely the recent recruitment freeze which has exacerbated problems .

It is a choice to allow Irish healthcare workers to go abroad when improving staffing levels and general conditions as a result would encourage more to stay.

Many would return quicker except for the housing crisis which is constraining ordinary workers in our cities .

Essential workers need affordable housing supplied or city weighting to help towards high cost of rents in their wages.

Not just nurses .

Vis London weighting

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143043#Comment_122143043

Would you have a source for this by chance?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143123#Comment_122143123

You are out of line .

I was responding to Geuze's post

.Read the thread before replying with rudeness .

Goldengirl

The dogs on the Heywood Road know .

No source for that first part but yes that locals are upset about the fact that 300 refugees appear to getting priority housing over those homeless in the town or those on housing waiting lists .

But that immediate area he as had numerous problems with the travellers on that site over the years .

Just to note I edited that post see above .

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143124#Comment_122143124

I'm afraid they do, or rather the policy of using migrant labour does. If they did not exist, the government would have to pay more in wages to Irish-trained nurses to stop them from leaving the country.

Yes, the unions negotiate the wage deals but their job is made harder because of large numbers of migrant workers willing to work for comparatively low wages. They have less bargaining power because of this.

Overall money would be saved if we were not reliant on migrant labour due to reduced housing costs and less need to pay out rent supliment and HAP etc., but that is not how the current government thinks.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142994#Comment_122142994

Bean counters 🤣 the annual health budget goes up and up every single year Furze. It's off the charts at the moment. €21.4bn last year, compared to €14.1bn in 2013. A 50% increase in a decade.

paddyisreal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142827#Comment_122142827

"Current housing situation" and how does allowing any cowboy into the country looking for a free ride help this situation.... It's hilarious how people mix up legal workers who are more than welcome and pay there own way with a bunch of chancers ( I would safely say at the moment 80 per cent plus of applicants are of this variety). I'm sure the applicants are full of nurses and doctors ! Load of bollocks

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143156#Comment_122143156

I disagree. Nurses and doctors have been leaving for decades and the policies of various governments have never changed.

Too shortsighted and always with an eye to the next election and protecting the public purse to adequately pay and staff Irish healthcare as well as many other services .

(Think this is off topic for a refugee thread as these workers are all immigrants on visas .,)

And where are you getting "foreign workers working for comparatively lower wages " ..that simply is not true in public services .Set wages .

Maybe you are thinking Private sector , in US , or Dreamland somewhere ,?!

And finally last pont ..direct opposite to what I and others suggest to keep Irish healthcare workers who also need help with rent and housing if working in expensive cities.

None of your points are correct or a solution .

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143255#Comment_122143255

However, the employment of nurses from comparatively low-wage countries has also been happening for decades. Keeps the wage bill down.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143292#Comment_122143292

Do you not understand the basic concept that these nurses are paid IRISH pay rates ?!

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143244#Comment_122143244

You know Paddy .you are right , it is a load of bxllocks !

I am not talking about refugees at all which is the topic of the thread.

I am talking about nurses and doctors here legally working in our healthcare system who are needed and necessary .

Geuze brought it up saying we should not have them and I was responding to him about the fact that we do need them .

So yes @Geuze it's not doctors and nurses on visas that we should be talking about as paddyisrael rightfully says !

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143244#Comment_122143244

But anyone who is a "chancer" will not be granted asylum or a PPS number and cannot legally work in Ireland. Not sure where the problem is?

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143305#Comment_122143305

Yes, Irish pay rates that are set lower because of the availability of people willing to work for comparatively low wages.

Where I disagree with you, I think, is that you think these rates are set in a vacuum. However, they are products of negotiation and, even with collective bargaining, if large numbers are willing to work for less, there will be downward pressure on wages.

If no immigrant nurses were allowed into the country (and I'm not saying this should happen) the unions would have a much easier time negotiating high wages for Irish-trained nurses. They would argue that if we don't pay them this amount, they will hop it off to Australia or wherever and, since the government would not in this scenario have the option of importing replacements, they would have to go along with the unions.

This is one of the reasons I think Governments like immigration: keeps stroppy Irish nurses and their unions in their place. The problem, however, is that more money has consequently to be paid in rent supplements and HAP and the like as rents are pushed up. But this also suits landlords as that tax money gets funneled to them.

Northernlily

I have a feeling Fianna Fail are gearing up to pull the plug on this Government. They absolutely know we are up **** creek and by pulling the plug at least they would get a start on FG and curry some favour back with the public.

Very strong comments at the parliamentary meeting this evening. " The public wants to see planes carrying migrants being deported and leaving the State" was even uttered

30000 AS expected this year - up from previous forcast of 20000. We are ducked if no strong action is taken i.e deportations.

They are very quiet lately and limelight seeking Harris is too silly to see it.