Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Do you know who is doing the 'kicking off ' there ,Prunudo ?

not sure of in and outs, group of migrants attacked the 'security guards', ambulance and garda called.

Our health service should not have to rely on immigrant health workers. We trained enough before and still do aplenty. Instead of taking in overseas health workers at lower wages with all the consequent demands we hear to bring family over and the costs associated etc, surely we'd better off raising our own wages and conditions and retaining what we train of Irish staff. This is what happens when you put 'bean counters' in charge of public services like this. Health services should not be seen in the same employment frame as mushroom growing.

And another !

Hang on here and I'll show you a few posts of your own a while back giving out about the lack of health services etc .

.So how long do you think it takes to train well qualified doctors and nurses,?

I see you agree with my post above on pay and conditions though .

What you are failing to take into consideration, however, is that the policy of using immigrant nurses and other workers helps keep wages down and rents high thus contributing to the problem of Irish-trained professionals leaving the country.

No .

They don't keep wages down .

They earn the same as Irish healthcare workers . And it's all union negotiated pay agreements , a few years at a time .

It's government who have kept a tight fiscal purse on wage agreements for years and more recently and bizarrely the recent recruitment freeze which has exacerbated problems .

It is a choice to allow Irish healthcare workers to go abroad when improving staffing levels and general conditions as a result would encourage more to stay.

Many would return quicker except for the housing crisis which is constraining ordinary workers in our cities .

Essential workers need affordable housing supplied or city weighting to help towards high cost of rents in their wages.

Not just nurses .

Vis London weighting

You are out of line .

I was responding to Geuze's post

.Read the thread before replying with rudeness .

I'm afraid they do, or rather the policy of using migrant labour does. If they did not exist, the government would have to pay more in wages to Irish-trained nurses to stop them from leaving the country.

Yes, the unions negotiate the wage deals but their job is made harder because of large numbers of migrant workers willing to work for comparatively low wages. They have less bargaining power because of this.

Overall money would be saved if we were not reliant on migrant labour due to reduced housing costs and less need to pay out rent supliment and HAP etc., but that is not how the current government thinks.

"Current housing situation" and how does allowing any cowboy into the country looking for a free ride help this situation.... It's hilarious how people mix up legal workers who are more than welcome and pay there own way with a bunch of chancers ( I would safely say at the moment 80 per cent plus of applicants are of this variety). I'm sure the applicants are full of nurses and doctors ! Load of bollocks

However, the employment of nurses from comparatively low-wage countries has also been happening for decades. Keeps the wage bill down.

You know Paddy .you are right , it is a load of bxllocks !

I am not talking about refugees at all which is the topic of the thread.

I am talking about nurses and doctors here legally working in our healthcare system who are needed and necessary .

Geuze brought it up saying we should not have them and I was responding to him about the fact that we do need them .

So yes @Geuze it's not doctors and nurses on visas that we should be talking about as paddyisrael rightfully says !

Yes, Irish pay rates that are set lower because of the availability of people willing to work for comparatively low wages.

Where I disagree with you, I think, is that you think these rates are set in a vacuum. However, they are products of negotiation and, even with collective bargaining, if large numbers are willing to work for less, there will be downward pressure on wages.

If no immigrant nurses were allowed into the country (and I'm not saying this should happen) the unions would have a much easier time negotiating high wages for Irish-trained nurses. They would argue that if we don't pay them this amount, they will hop it off to Australia or wherever and, since the government would not in this scenario have the option of importing replacements, they would have to go along with the unions.

This is one of the reasons I think Governments like immigration: keeps stroppy Irish nurses and their unions in their place. The problem, however, is that more money has consequently to be paid in rent supplements and HAP and the like as rents are pushed up. But this also suits landlords as that tax money gets funneled to them.

Like this has never happened, ask Lucky. The game is up on this nonsense and Irish voters will make their voices heard.

I do wonder about that. No way can someone working in a meat processing factory afford to support a family and accommodation (which is unfortunate but a true fact). If they ended up on HAP is the government essentially just propping up a small to medium sized business with tax payers money. All to keep wages down too.

Who are you calling stroppy ?! ;)

I see your point .

However it made no difference to pay rates, conditions or the government before foreign nurses were first brought over here in larger numbers in the noughties.

They were initially drafted over after nurse education went from diploma to degree level and there was a drop in nurses available because student nurses were no longer employed as numbers working in the hospitals until their final degree year.